[reply="karl stone;23420

Fool

Ha no it’s not got anything to do with Buddhism it’s about having a conversation that could be interesting without having to put up with interruptions that dilute the content.

Ok could go further but thanks. You have helped me.

irellevant question.

Is Kant the most important philosopher of the enlightenment era?

In terms of what his thinking did for thinking, not for world events.

Sorry to pester- want does Kant say about strong lies in order to protect others emotions?

Where would that leave me?

i.e gift of love.

Mum I love you ( I don’t ) - ( obviously I do really. Out of necessity lol, difficult childhood) :) :)

Thank you son, that makes me happy.

My instincts
In the cold world of philosophy I’m immoral for the lie
In the dull world of experience I’m moral.

Oh for sure. I only mentioned the OP thing just to narrow my own answer.

So for my education.

Kants perfect duty to others - We owe the truth in order to be moral?

Sorry I’m a little simple and find things tricky to follow unless I can clarify in my own terms.

Now my question to you is,

Are you declaring Kant as a source of potential truth or a source of definite truth?

Is there no way to be more involved? I’d be fascinated. I’m currently a student in my first year but hope to progress to at least MA and god willing PHD.

The answer lies to a much earlier and simpler time.

There are, according to some, I believe Plato??

Two kinds of beauty- that of opinion and that of knowledge.

I believe that you only need to look at the sculpture of the Greeks to recognise the aesthetic beauty of man. In a very real sense the potential for development of the Male body leads to perhaps an even greater source of the beauty of opinion than can be found in women.

Great question chap.

And as if this matters but for as far as my experience and understanding of sexuality goes I’m a heterosexual by choice but could certainly be aroused by homoerotisism. I made my choice in infant school. An art book had a collection of rennaisance ‘Male nude study’ and it certainly ‘aroused my interest’ but I found the allure of the female form and especially female facial features more alluring.

Really great question chap

I think you altered the OP a little ( or I’m dumb, happy to accept either ) but interesting post and I agree. I really need to read Kant.

Is the real question what the individual owes morally to society?

I recently presented my parents with the question of morally “Do I owe you anything”

We couldn’t agree, lol, but if someone spits on me should I thank them?

Tricky question.

I believe that we owe nothing to anything. We are objectively nothing and even though we may experience emotions and desires and ideas we owe them nothing.

If a person saves my life. I owe them nothing. This is my current thinking, naive and open to change.

I don’t like huge open forums and much prefer one 2 one discussion. Much easier to keep track. Happy to discuss further with you.

Or perhaps you might accept that, like nearly every other English word in existence, "enlightenment" has several meanings, all of which are clearly understood (from context) by the vast majority of English speakers? Here's one link, but there are many others. The Eastern meaning of "enlightenment" is listed as a known meaning of this word. Must we only use words in the way that you, personally, use them? Piffle! — Pattern-chaser

I have to agree here Karl. I’m open to your reasoning and you are certainty intelligent, certainly, more so than myself for sure. But you are at risk of being closed.

Karl id like to start a personal dialogue with you discussing mainly these matters but others, related. Would you mind?

I’m no expert on debate but I feel like you are so maybe you can educate me in the process.

Let me know.

:lol:

Sorry old chap. I don’t like to result to insult but you are being a bit of an ass. Could you please cut out the assness. Just a little.

I bet old Karl is real fun at a dinner party.

Wouldn’t philosophy be dull if it was just science.

Imagine.

Interesting

in answer to do rewards to self taint altruism - my opinion;

Noble deeds reward the Noble soul. The Nobel soul if acting selflessly is rewarded then there is no taint. If the Nobel soul acts with self gain in mind, even if only in the furthest and most silent corners of the mind, then yes, the nobility of the action is tainted.

There are plenty of holes in the above. But I think from a rationalist perspective that’s enough to settle ones mind.

I’ve read the BG and couldn’t help but think this selflessness sounds a hell of a lot like being selfish lol. But one needn’t handle the bread oneseld In order to feed the masses.

Another idea is detatchment. We are destructive beings, to lesser and greater extents, by being enlightened we become more detached and pose less of a threat. That’s pretty selfless. Foregoing material gain in order to live a life of integrity that involves taking as little from the collective availability as possible.

Ok well ignore the bits you don’t like. :)

We can become more subjectively enlightened, but who decides upon enlightenment?

The progressive ‘left’ currently believe that their campaign of social justice are the actions of an enlightened mind and that Trump is a terrible mistake.

I believe that the progressive ‘left’ are largely naive and dangerous. I believe Trump is objecticticely just a repetition of history. I think my view is more enlightened.

In terms of the kind of Bhagavid Gita sort of enlightenment then yes it’s possible to achieve but if it’s anything other than a form of stoicism and self love; I don’t know.

In answer Yes it is possible to achieve. But what that means.. I don’t know.

I have no formal education in English grammar or anything, left school very early. So please forgive mistakes and please correct

I haven’t read the answer from Hanover, although by the looks of it I should.

‘Is’ is a ‘to be’ verb right? and if taken to mean ‘to
be’ in this sentence then in it can’t be the subject.

I wonder if we can make a case for IS by another route, will attempt later.


So we have a choice between IT and RAINING.

I might be wrong but in indo-European languages normal word order would have subject before object.

IT could denote anything so we could call it the universe and this would be indicative of the subject right?

RAINING is a straight up adjective right?

Present active - that relevant or even correct?

IT can be a pronoun so we can absolutely make IT the subject.

IS- although unlikely....

A hypothetical conversation.

Man 1: what is it?

Man 2: It IS. * feels the drops of rain on his head, looks up and sighing states “Raining, while leaving no gap in conversation to indicate any hesistation etc.

If ‘it’ IS. Then is IT an adjective and IS the subject?while RAINING is just extraneous information?

Am I correct with that line of thinking?
Incorrect?
Misleading?
Outside of context?
Just plain dumb.

However stupid that answer may be the other question of is this philosophy then I think it is. I think philosophy is the pursuit of truth and beauty, language and linguistics is certainly a treasure trove of truth and beauty.

Yes please.

I’d like some more equations.

At first I was like

60- ? Then trying to add up
Bernice’ fat arse... lol thanks dude.

I also love the example and thanks very much for that.

Ok. It’s not about the athrimetic is it, almost, it’s similiar to deductive logic. Ha the funny thing was I (kind of) pictured the equation. I didn’t quite visualise it. But I had it in my mind abstractly. It existed and it looked similar. In fact it’s much more like logic than arithmetic and now I look at it i can see how exciting it is. What do you think. Should I persevere? Is studying Euclid the answer as Banno suggests?

Trump or rather the state of the world is what happens when dangerous geniuses write books that the intelligent read and over the following 2-3 generations indocrinate the combination of semi-intelligent and unintelligent, or rather entirely stunted, that remain. Mayhem. Trump and the guys that got him elected has their fingers on the pulse of the deplorables. Anyhoo I kind of think it’s the role of the philosophically minded to view all this as irony loving observers rather than take an active part in such a dirty,
murky and ambigous world.

All tongue in cheek of course. Couldn’t care less.

All though the bit about the canary calling cat is interesting.

Truth to that

Worth to note that throughout history how many deeply intelligent and wise people live with suicidal thoughts. It’s easy using a scientific or medical eye to potentially conflate the thoughts with a dysfunction of mind. But maybe it’s just we underestimate a vast difference between experience that modern science cannot answer due to the strict refusal of a metaphysical. Artists, poets, writers arguably see the world much clearer than Drs and lawyers.

Are you suggesting that assisted suicide be legal (given caveats). The reason I ask is I still don’t quite have the handle of the reply and quote system. Any if that is what you are suggesting I think it’s an extremely interesting debate. One that we need to really consider.

Several points from me

when I’m being dragged down into the inferno my suicidal thoughts manifest themselves as fantasy, an irrational urge to end a (struggle).

When I’m flying high the thoughts appear as something equally irrational but strangley rather beautiful.

When “normal” I think it’s a ‘rational’ conclusion of the critical thought of a sensitive individual. A kind of post-modernist intrusion upon the classical soul.

It’s beauty that keeps one alive in my view.

That’s just a few ramblings that come to mind. Another I guess just quickly is suicide and death may be scary for some but it’s entirely dependent upon philosophy but I do wonder upon that final moment. The Anna Karanina moment. And also the Martyred Socrates moment.

Apologies for rambles

Me that’s muddled. Sorry.

My claim would be that if an omnipotent being, call it god, were to deliver objective truth to man, then something, not nothing, could deliver the objective truth to man. Once the truth was delivered then I don’t see what that has to do with the omnipotent being and it’s delivery. The rest is up to man, and while I find it very unlikely that man could know he had possession of the objective truth, I don’t know if that’s correct, and I don’t know if an objective reality exists, more probable than man knowing it. But I agree that we could Know no more than this. I think that the Omnipotent being, if it were something, then could not be nothing, and if it possessed and decided too, share it’s truths with man, then it could do so.

Now I’m fresh to this and open to insult. So, am I complete loop?

[reply="Pattern-chaser;2324

Does “delivery” depend upon method of reception?

Highlight the text you want to quote and you'll notice a quote bar pop up next to it. Click on that and the portion highlighted will be quoted in the response box. — Wallows

Thanks :smile:

could someone please tell me
How to reply with quote?

I’m new to the forum so apologies if I have screwed up reposting the relevant quote.

To answer “nothing can...objective knowledge.”

That statement could only be credible if you were to comprehensively deny the possibility of the unknown and predicate the statement upon those terms.

Maybe I’ve misinterpreted your message or the parameter of the discussion. Apologies if so.

Me too. In my humble and meaningless opinion; Even on the worst days, it’s better to be on vacation in hell than be stuck in purgatory without a passport.

love it

Love it

I’m bi-polar, SP and all other kinds of modern explanations of altered states of experience and existence. I’m super sensitive to anything that stimulates. I mean MJ or Meditation not DMT or real Mind altering stuff, explored when I was a teenager but couldn’t now. I live in a crazy world of beauty where everything is music and truth. That’s why I digged the op. Pathless land etc.

One or Two doses a year is more than enough for me. I then have to endure a few months of dysfunction before normality resumes. The growth is worth the instability. I’ve found chakra exploration entirely fascinating but again once or twice a year is enough.

Oh wow. My first post and this is where I find myself. Now that is a question.

If I were to answer that statement, and not be in a state of mania...

I’d tell you that I am truth and you can search with all the means of man but you shall not find me, not unless it is shall be your destiny. If it is your destiny then you shall not merely find me, but join me. And together we shall share in all that is beauty. I shall learn from you, you from me, us from the others and then at the end of our sermons we shall all laugh at our own foolishness.

And If I was in a state of mania I’d probably believe that.