Damn it. I forget to mention concerns re: "Memory Wars".

The attempts to influence a nation's collective memory.
Politicians disputing a particular event.

How something is framed or fabricated in our memory - how trustworthy is it?
Can we doubt what we saw or heard happening?
Witness accounts from different perspectives are notoriously unreliable.

The importance, then, of 'Lest We Forget'.

----
Someone BTL recommended the Revisionist History podcasts by Malcolm Gladwell.
Has anyone here listened to them?
Thoughts?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Revisionist_History_(podcast)

I've removed the completely irrelevant personal attacks, because this discussion has been civil for a good four pages and I don't want it to degenerate like the Ukraine discussion did. — Jamal

Well done you and @Hanover for keeping this thread clear, relevant and a worthwhile read.
Remarkable patience being shown in some increasingly aggressive responses.
Not an easy subject to discuss.
Thanks to all for keeping the conversation cool :cool:

It's interesting to read of the varying opinions of Talking to Oneself. — jgill

Is that in the article, the BTL comments or elsewhere?
I've just re-read the article and can't remember that being covered.
BTL someone suggests verbalisation of what you're doing. Some even take photos of locking the door!
I try to stop and focus rather than do this automatically.
When I'm parking the car at a hospital or railway station, I deliberately look back to capture the return scene. I take note of points of reference, like lamposts, lettered signs, trees...
I never thought of using my phone as camera...again, that would make the mind lazy, no?

It can be a sign of oncoming dementia - or not. — jgill

If it's a sign, then I've had it coming since forever.
I suppose it depends if it's external or internal and what it is you're talking or arguing about.
It's not unusual to have an inner voice, like my GC in the OP.
Sometimes it encourages, other times it can be hypercritical.
I think I'd start worrying if I lost it but it needs to be controlled.
Otherwise, you can talk yourself into a state of anxiety about losing your mind!
Stress and Memory loss. A self-fulfilling prophecy?

Re: reading fiction and tracking characters and plots.
I read BTL that kindle has a function where all that info is captured - Kindle X-ray?
Again, does that help or hinder the mind...it depends.

As for children, they are encouraged to read aloud to themselves and others initially, but to do so as one matures is discouraged. We are taught to not utter the words we read, but doing so may help retain memories. — jgill

I once tried to read aloud - not in public.
It's more time-consuming and difficult, especially if you seldom use your voice.
But yes, if we slow down and relish the words, it might help.
Then again, I tried to memorise a short poem recently and couldn't.
A bit upsetting given that I could recite 'Tam O' Shanter' nae bother when at school.

Then, I never had a problem with memory, due perhaps to rote-learning.
However, that can limit your ability to think for yourself. I'm thinking of exam regurgitation.
Foreign language learning requires some rote learning of grammar, declensions but then you need to practise it in real life. Understanding someone is easier than producing, creating the sensible sentence.

And that brings me to the article's omission.
That of Writing.
As @praxis mentioned:

I wonder if written online stimulation/socializing like here at TPF counts in this way. — praxis

Words are in my memory but can't always be retrieved.
Writing to communicate can help.
TPF is wonderful for this kind of creative activity.
By this time, I should have collected a whole new vocabulary and be able to use it appropriately...

Finally, the article's Mind-Mapping suggestion.
Nothing new there. A bit like mnemonics.
I don't find it useful. It simply adds another layer to remember. I'm a fan of Occam's Razor.
I do remember K.I.S.S. for whatever reason :kiss:
Others can't do it because they are not visual thinkers.
A few BTL mentioned having aphantasia.
Wow.
I can't imagine that one...
Do they see nothing?

NB: The last of three tunes I hope someone makes sure get played at my funeral – the other two (in order) are "Gin and Juice" by Snoop Dogg & "Born Under A Bad Sign" by Jimi Hendrix. :smirk: — 180 Proof

You've plenty of time to change your mind :wink:
I want to have no fuss or funeral.
But...
I have thought about the music.
I love Zoom.

To be honest I only skimmed the article — praxis

To be honest, I didn't give it my complete attention, as is obvious.

in my defense I’ve read similar articles recently. — praxis

Interesting. I've seen that happen when an author has a book to sell.

Oh look-see:

Neuroscientist Dr Richard Restak is a past president of the American Neuropsychiatric Association, who has lectured on the brain and behaviour everywhere from the Pentagon to Nasa, and written more than 20 books on the human brain.His latest, The Complete Guide to Memory: The Science of Strengthening Your Mind, homes in on the great unspoken fear that every time you can’t remember where you put your reading glasses, it’s a sign of impending doom. “In America today,” he writes “anyone over 50 lives in dread of the big A.” Memory lapses are, he writes, the single most common complaint over-55s raise with their doctors, even though much of what they describe turns out to be nothing to worry about. — The Guardian

That's kinda put me off a re-read.
Is it worth paying more or less attention to an article if we know it is an extended advert?

Socialization is the most important part of keeping away Alzheimer’s and dementia, and keeping your memory.

I wonder if written online stimulation/socializing like here at TPF counts in this way. — praxis

Absolutely :100:
Why do you think I came back?
Seriously seeking attention, not. Well, not much :roll:
But to take care of GC.

Glad you read the article and picked out that piece :up:
Can you remember, without looking, any other areas of interest?

When I come to think about it...I don't remember reading anything about Writing...

Who are the attention seekers?
Our probable next PM. Already making trouble.
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2022/aug/02/liz-truss-dismissal-of-attention-seeker-sturgeon-will-horrify-scots-says-snp

Pity idiot Truss and the Tories can't be ignored :meh:

Here come the Pretenders...gotta love Chrissie...



Brass in Pocket
The Pretenders

I got brass in pocket
I got bottle, I'm gonna use it
Intention, I feel inventive
Gonna make you, make you, make you notice and

Got motion, restrained emotion
Been driving, Detroit leaning
No reason, just seems so pleasing
Gonna make you, make you, make you notice

Gonna use my arms
Gonna use my legs
Gonna use my style
Gonna use my sidestep
Gonna use my fingers
Gonna use my, my, my, imagination

'Cause I going make you see
There's nobody else here, no one like me
I'm special
(Special)
So special
(Special)
I got have some of your attention, give it to me

I got rhythm, I can't miss a beat
I got a new Skank, so reet
Got something, I'm winking at you
Gonna make you, make you, make you notice

Gonna use my arms
Gonna use my legs
Gonna use my style
Gonna use my sidestep
Gonna use my fingers
Gonna use my, my, my, imagination

Oh, 'cause I gonna make you see
There's nobody else here, no one like me
I'm special
(Special)
So special
(Special)
I got to have some of your attention, give it to me

'Cause I gonna make you see
There's nobody else here, no one like me
I'm special
(Special)
So special
(Special)
I got have some of your attention, give it to me
Ohh, in when you are

Songwriters: Chrissie Hynde, James Honeyman Scott
For non-commercial use only.
Data from: Musixmatch

Nota bene: my latest album is out now!
But nobody is listening :groan: so I've come here for some...er...attention :starstruck:
https://thephilosophyforum.com/discussion/13331/the-art-act-or-end-of-attention
What happens when we don't pay attention...?
What does it cost?

Pay Attention



[Verse 1]
Sometimes I don’t pay attention
And I hit cars
Sometimes I don’t pay attention
And I start wars
Sometimes I don’t pay attention
(You know what I mean
You know what I mean)
Sometimes I don’t pay attention
(You know what I mean
You know what I mean)
[Chorus]
So if I ask you a question, don’t answer it
And if I send you an email, don’t hit “reply”
'Cause I don’t know why, know why, I sent it in the first place
And if it´s in the best interest, I’ll think of it
But if it’s not, oh well, I can’t deny
That I don’t know why, know why
I’m still a part of this human race

[Verse 2]
Sometimes I don’t pay attention
And I burn toast
Sometimes I don’t pay attention
And it hurts you to the most
Sometimes I don’t pay attention
(You know what I mean
You know what I mean)
Sometimes I don’t pay attention
(You know what I mean
You know what I mean)

REPEAT CHORUS X3

This happens to me a lot. I think my subconscious is speaking to me via songs, reminding me important stuff I need to mind, through the lyrics of songs popping into my head for no obvious reason.

In your case, it would be an expression of pain, that replaced the word 'rain' in the lyrics you recreated mentally. I am sorry that you are going (apparently) through some pain. The best song I know about that is unfortunately written for a man, and in French, but here is an attempt at a translation — Olivier5

The thing is with:

This morning it was, "I can't stand the pain. On my window. Rain" — Amity

Appreciate your thoughts.

I wasn't in any physical pain. Unless as part of the brain strain, of being human.
'I can't stand the pain'.
Perhaps stemming from frustration at powerlessness in the face of...everything that's wrong.
'On my window'. Reflections of a glass barrier between the external and internal.
'Rain'. Good or bad, life 'weather' depending.

Way too much thinking on stuff that passes through your mind.
Not always as important as we think it is, and then again...

Enjoy the day :sparkle:

Ez-pz — 180 Proof

Hah. Show-off! :clap:

A brilliant example of TPF being this kind of forum.
Filo, Fun, Fizziks and Fireworks for Free! :fire:

Are there many physicists in here? — TiredThinker

If nobody responds here, then:
Suggest you type 'physicist' into the search box or go search the Phil. of Science sub-forum.
Or if you ask in the Shoutbox, someone will surely appear.
On a wave of consciousness never before observed or survived.
Over and out.

This thread is growing into a love shack, baby. — Olivier5

:cool:
I think that's @Hanover's place.
Pretty sure I caught sight of one of his goats.
Better not go there...

Ok but what criticism? If memory serves, the Satanic Verses does NOT read like a criticism of Islam at all, more like an independent exploration. — Olivier5

I haven't read it. Not to my taste when published but strangely enough had just been thinking of it when the attack happened.

As to how it reads, like any book, even the cover and title can trigger.
So perhaps not an either/or but both depending on interpretation.
I'll leave it there, for now.

This thread is indeed about song lyrics, and how they can infuse poetry and wisdom in our life. — Olivier5

Yes. And I love seeing and hearing how strong or not-so-strong songs have an impact.
The powerful Pink Floyd compared to the softer Lesley Duncan.

Lesley was also a session singer and contributed backing vocals to Pink Floyd's 1973 release The Dark Side of the Moon.

Listening to "We're not alone" now. — Olivier5

It's 'We Are Not Alone'.
Important not to commatise it, I think.

I discovered it after re-visiting and being inspired by @Benkei's Short Story (Comp1)

https://thephilosophyforum.com/discussion/11530/were-not-alone-by-aibenkei

So they say the attack is justified. — Michael

Yes. And from the same BBC article, the sickening:

Iranian media have extensively commented on the attack, calling it "divine retribution".

Iran's state broadcaster daily Jaam-e Jam highlighted the news that Rushdie might lose an eye following the attack, saying "an eye of the Satan has been blinded". — BBC News

Absolutely disgusting. What can be done about it?

Mr Blinken had earlier denounced Iran's state institutions for inciting violence against the author.

He said in a statement that Mr Rushdie had "consistently stood up for the universal rights of freedom of expression, freedom of religion or belief, and freedom of the press".

"While law enforcement officials continue to investigate the attack, I am reminded of the pernicious forces that seek to undermine these rights, including through hate speech and incitement to violence.

"Specifically, Iranian state institutions have incited violence against Rushdie for generations, and state-affiliated media recently gloated about the attempt on his life. This is despicable."

Mr Blinken added the US and its partners would use "every appropriate tool" at their disposal to stand up to what he called "these threats".

***
So, there we have it:
'Every appropriate tool' against 'pernicious forces', 'hate speech' and 'incitement to violence'.

I hope that includes all domestic extremism too.
But when Presidents get away with it...this gives me no hope.
Meaningless words without action against powerful words of anger.

And we spend time looking for who condemns attacks.
What will change...?
It seems hatred and division rule.
No matter what.

Meanwhile:

Police are investigating a threat against JK Rowling that was made after she posted her reaction on social media to the attack on Salman Rushdie.

Rowling tweeted on Friday: “Horrifying news. Feeling very sick right now. Let him be OK.”

A Twitter user under the name Meer Asif Asiz replied: “Don’t worry you are next.” — Olivier5

I know we are travelling away from the initial OP but I think it's worthwhile to view in the greater context:
(Mods @Hanover not sure about splitting this off to a separate thread. It is all so inter-related)

In any future monument to murdered, tortured, imprisoned and persecuted writers, Rushdie will feature large. On 12 August he was stabbed on stage by an assailant at a literary event at Chautauqua, a venerable American institution in upstate New York. Yet again “that sort of thing never happens here” has been proven false: in our present world, anything can happen anywhere. American democracy is under threat as never before: the attempted assassination of a writer is just one more symptom.

Without doubt, this attack was directed at him because his fourth novel, The Satanic Verses, a satiric fantasy that he himself believed was dealing with the disorientation felt by immigrants from (for instance) India to Britain, got used as a tool in a political power struggle in a distant country.

When your regime is under pressure, a little book-burning creates a popular distraction. Writers don’t have an army. They don’t have billions of dollars. They don’t have a captive voting block. They thus make cheap scapegoats. They’re so easy to blame: their medium is words, which are by nature ambiguous and subject to misinterpretation, and they themselves are often mouthy, if not downright curmudgeonly. Worse, they frequently speak truth to power. Even apart from that, their books will annoy some people. As writers themselves have frequently said, if what you’ve written is universally liked, you must be doing something wrong. But when you offend a ruler, things can get lethal, as many writers have discovered.

In Rushdie’s case, the power that used him as a pawn was the Ayatollah Khomeini of Iran. In 1989, he issued a fatwa – a rough equivalent to the bulls of excommunication used by medieval and renaissance Catholic popes as weapons against both secular rulers and theological challengers such as Martin Luther. Khomeini also offered a large reward to anyone who would murder Rushdie. There were numerous killings and attempted assassinations, including the stabbing of the Japanese translator Hitoshi Igarashi in 1991. Rushdie himself spent many years in enforced hiding, but gradually he came out of his cocoon – the Toronto PEN event being the most significant first step – and, in the past two decades, he’d been leading a relatively normal life.
— Margaret Atwood - the Guardian

Maybe asking for clarity on lightspeed travel versus hypothetically manipulating space to travel faster than light without actually reaching that speed. — TiredThinker

OK. Perhaps they don't like 'hypothetically'...
Perhaps try the question out here?
As a thought experiment...

I've been following this informative and thought-provoking thread. Thanks @Hanover
I had wondered when anyone would start talking about the attack and from what angle.
The focus is exceptional.

But back to the theological question, anyone find sources of mainstream. Imam condemnation of the attack or fatwa? — Hanover

I've been looking too and glad to have learned more from other posters.
Apologies if I've departed some from original OP questions.

I bolded bits of interest, where any questioning at all is forbidden and can result in death via fatwah.

Anything departing from such hagiography is blasphemous, even if showing Mohammad in a positive light (as Rushdie does in the Satanic Verses), even if historically accurate.

In particular, the Quran is untouchable.It is supposed to be the direct writings of God. Yet Rushdie shows a conflictual, painful revelation process, where Mohammad goes through much physical and mental suffering and struggle, and where the politics of the city get to impact the holy book, albeit in a transient manner. It implies that the Quran has a human touch, even if divinely inspired, and thus introduces an element of doubt. — Olivier5

Rare are the Muslims who ever read the Satanic Verses. That includes Rushdie's attacker, Hadi Matar. They just believe what some other cretin said about it. That's a big part of the problem. We got guys ready to kill for hearsay, for a fucking rumor... — Olivier5

That point was covered in a recent Guardian article.
Basically, it doesn't matter the contents, it's the principle...the mere fact of criticism.
Emotional manipulation. Not just a rumour but brain-washing.

Another excellent piece mentioned our 'internalisation' of the fatwah with links to other articles.
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2022/aug/13/we-internalised-the-fatwa-against-salman-rushdie-this-horrific-attack-is-what-follows

A bit like how Rushdie just had to get on with life...accepting of his potential fate.
It's a pity that there has been no clear understanding re the lifting of the fatwah.
Channel 4 news not long after the attack explored this:
Krishnan Guru-Murthy
We spoke to Indian MP and author Shashi Tharoor about the attack of Salman Rushdie.
https://www.channel4.com/news/salman-rushdie-he-felt-after-nine-years-of-living-in-hiding-it-was-wonderful-to-be-normal-again

I don't see enough in the press in defence of the book itself. It is a great piece of literature and I hope that people read it, and read it for a good reason, ie their reading pleasure. Haters looking for a dress-down of Mohammad will be disappointed. The prophet comes across as a great man, and there is no contempt for Islam in that book whatsoever. — Olivier5

I read that the sales have increased. Long live literature.
Again, the Guardian has that covered.

Latest on who is to blame:

Salman Rushdie, who was stabbed repeatedly at a public appearance in New York state, and his supporters are to blame for the attack,Iran’s foreign ministry spokesperson has said.

Freedom of speech did not justify Rushdie’s insults upon religion in his writing, Nasser Kanaani said in a press briefing on Monday. — Guardian

There you go...

Posting this again, with video.

This is Love.
I woke up with this in my ears and on my mind.
Thinking about how it would be if we concentrated more on love rather than hate.
Together with a bit of humour, I love the final minutes of this.
George spreading pop star legs, laughing at it himself...

Also, See 1:07

Little things that will change you forever
May appear from out of the blue — Amity

Close-up of guitar-playing about 1:40.

Physicsforums.com . And I don't remember the last deleted post. — TiredThinker

Thanks for the link.

I was told it wasn't a Q&A forum.It's like they want me to somehow contribute to the field of physics as if I was writing a doctoral dissertation. What are forums if not the place to ask questions? — TiredThinker

I asked 'What were your questions?' not about any deleted posts.
You don't remember the nature of your question?
Bolded part:
I think this is an unfair and exaggerated complaint, a misunderstanding or misrepresentation.

***
A quick look suggests that is an excellent, well-organised site for different levels and areas.

B= Beginners ( Basic high school)
I = Intermediate ( Undergrad)
A= Advanced (Grad+)
There is even a Homework Help forum with Q&As.

Before posting to a forum, it's always a good idea to read the mission statement and guidelines.

We aim to provide a community for students, scientists, educators or hobbyists to learn and discuss science as it is currently generally understood and practiced by the professional scientific community....
Reference: https://www.physicsforums.com/#the-lounge.34

Strange that it is in The Lounge.
[ I note they are looking for writing input in Sci-Fi ]

***

Non-mainstream theories:
Generally, in the forums we do not allow the following:

• Discussion of theories that appear only on personal websites, self-published books, etc.
• Challenges to mainstream theories (relativity, the Big Bang, etc.) that go beyond current professional discussion
• Attempts to promote or resuscitate theories that have been discredited or superseded (e.g. Lorentz ether theory); this does not exclude discussion of those theories in a purely historical context Personal theories or speculations that go beyond or counter to generally accepted science
• Mixing science and religion, e.g. using religious doctrines in support of scientific arguments or vice versa.
• Philosophical discussions are permitted only at the discretion of the mentors and may be deleted or closed without warning or appeal

Reference: https://www.physicsforums.com/threads/physics-forums-global-guidelines.414380/

***

In the Physics subforum: other physics topics:
A helpful 'Insights' article:
https://www.physicsforums.com/insights/how-to-avoid-breaking-physics-with-your-what-if-question/

***

So, again:
What was the nature of your question or proposed discussion title? *
Did it meet the forum guidelines?
Do you now have the answer to your OP?

* perhaps it could be discussed better at TPF?
Worth considering?

'What type of forum is this?'

Why do you ask?
You joined 2 years ago.
You don't know by now?

I like to ask physics questions in a physics forum I've joined, but often get criticized for asking questions that I don't know the answers to. I was told it wasn't a Q&A forum. It's like they want me to somehow contribute to the field of physics as if I was writing a doctoral dissertation. What are forums if not the place to ask questions? — TiredThinker

It depends on the forum, the admin and their raison d'être.
Some expect a certain degree of specialist knowledge...
What is the name of the physics forum?
What were your questions?

The lyric that most changed my life was "Did you exchange a walk on part in the war for a lead role in a cage?" As stupid as it sounds, that lyric would go through my mind every day when I worked a job I had mastered and was successful at, but there was no challenge. I had a leading role in a cage, but needed the war. — Hanover

Pink Floyd. Unique.
Experimental sounds, philosophical lyrics, insane themes, live shows.
What's not to like?

So, did you change your job or your attitude?
Did you pick your own wars or battles?
Change. Of cages challenging.

I think we can all think of inspirational song quotes.
After a breakup and feeling sorry for myself, I wrote 2 words on my wall poster.
A reminder that things don't stay the same forever.
I had been listening to Lesley Duncan (perhaps wrong move with melancholy).

We Are Not Alone



This world has ears and rocks have eyes
Nature loves to hide
The world is a bush full of fiery eyes
Nature loves to hide
I've travelled a lot, I was observed
I was observed and unaware
I've travelled a lot unaware I was observed, I was observed
We are not alone (Good news for life)
We are not alone (Good news for life)
We are not alonе (Good news for life)
We arе not alone (Good news for life)
We don't see them (Good news for life)
We don't see them (Good news for life)
We don't see them (Good news for life)
We don't see them (Good news for life)
We are not alone (Good news for life)
Yeah, we are not alone (Good news for life)
We are not alone (Good news for life)
We are not alone (Good news for life)
We don't see them (Good news for life)
We don't see them (Good news for life)
We don't see them (Good news for life)
We don't see them (Good news for life)
We are not alone (Good news for life)
Yeah, we are not alone (Good news for life)
Yeah, we are not alone (Good news for life)
We are not alone (Good news for life)

Celebration time, come on! :party:

Thanks for clear instructions!

I have good memories of this song. My parents used to play it. — Jamal

Just for you :cool:

wow, didn't know that... I should've asked if you agreed! — Changeling

:smile:
It seems you missed the big love-in.
Me, George and @180 Proof :wink:

I approve your choice :100:
A wonderful find. You have a knack :up:

Written by Bob Dylan*

If Not For You - Olivia Newton-John/George Harrison ( both now passed :flower: :sparkle: )
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zMxPrV9FWGQ

1. Olivia Newton-John - If Not For You #25 in July 1971 on the Uni label.
2. George Harrison - If Not For You released on the All Things Must Pass album in 1970 on the Apple label.

***
Dame Olivia Newton-John AC DBE (26 September 1948 – 8 August 2022)
Tributes have been paid from around the world to Olivia Newton-John, who has died from cancer aged 73.
The British-born Australian singer and actress was best known for playing Sandy in Grease, one of the most successful film musicals ever made.
Her Grease co-star John Travolta said she "made all of our lives so much better" while its director said: "What you see is what you get with her"
She died peacefully at her California ranch surrounded by family and friends.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/entertainment-arts-62472100

***

* still alive :cool:

Bob Dylan - If Not for You (Official Audio)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yyouhbgAiCA

The special sound of The Temptations :cool:
1:28 and 1:33 took me straight to 'My Girl' (1964)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Ff2Z0Dq2sg

This is Love - George Harrison
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wqWkBk2ixs8

George Harrison, Jeff Lynne

Vicious words drift away from their meanings
And the sun melts the chill from our lives
Helping us all to remember what we came here for
This is love
This is la la la la love
This is love
This is la la la la love

Little things that will change you forever
May appear from out of the blue
Making fools of everybody who don't understand
This is love
This is la la la la love
This is love
This is la la la la love

This is love, this is love
This is love, this is la la la la love

Since our problems have been our own creation
They also can be overcome
When we use the power provided free to everyone
This is love
This is la la la la love
This is love
This is la la la la love

This is love
This is la la la la love
This is love
This is la la la la love

What is it about ELO? Even the mention makes me smile.

Perhaps it's Jeff Lynne.
Again, there's a George Harrison connection.
'The Traveling Wilburys (sometimes shortened to the Wilburys) were a British–American supergroup consisting of Bob Dylan, George Harrison, Jeff Lynne, Roy Orbison and Tom Petty. Originating from an idea discussed by Harrison and Lynne during the sessions for Harrison's 1987 album Cloud Nine...'

From Cloud Nine:
"This Is Love" is a song by English rock musician George Harrison that was released on his 1987 album Cloud Nine. Harrison co-wrote the song with Jeff Lynne, who also co-produced the track. In June 1988, it was issued as the third single from Cloud Nine, peaking at number 55 on the UK Singles Chart.

This is Love
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wqWkBk2ixs8


The Traveling Wilburys - End Of The Line (Official Video)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UMVjToYOjbM


A good start to the day :cool:

What a delicious double-first for me. Thanks for finding and sharing :cool:
I love George Harrison but had no idea about this film-making collaboration. What a crew!
Apparently, the lyrics had a bit of a sting in them. Subtle.


In the 2011 documentary George Harrison: Living in the Material World, directed by Martin Scorsese, Gilliam recalled that late in the production of Time Bandits he came to see the song's lyrics as "notes" from Harrison on the things he liked and disliked about the film and on how Gilliam was "too arrogant and not listening!" Gilliam added: "And I thought it was the most brilliant, subtle, clever thing a man could ever do, to write a song. He's writing about things that he felt strongly about and yet he's too polite and decent and, I think, respectful of other artists, whatever form that takes, to interfere."

I'll take your word for that :smirk:
Sayin' nuffink that will get me into truble :zip:
определённо nyet :scream:

Спокойной ночи :yawn:

Don't know about Roy Avers. — Jamal

All I know is he's free :up:

...prepare to have no idea what is going on or why. — Jamal

I will probably fall asleep before I realise how confused I am :wink:

No tapping on words here! Back in the day of cassettes :nerd:

The Shadow of the Torturer Audiobook (Roy Avers, noise reduced)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xnw8WXRZbAM


0:00 - Introduction
3:59 - Chapter 1: Resurrection and Death
20:12 - Chapter 2: Severian
36:02 - Chapter 3: The Autarch's Face
52:32 - Chapter 4: Triskele
1:09:33 - Chapter 5: The Picture - Cleaner and Others
1:22:35 - Chapter 6: The Master of the Curators
1:48:48 - Chapter 7: The Traitress
2:10:37 - Chapter 8: The Conversationalist
2:24:00 - Chapter 9: The House Azure
2:38:17 - Chapter 10: The Last Year
2:55:00 - Chapter 11: The Feast
3:08:33 - Chapter 12: The Traitor
3:24:02 - Chapter 13: The Lictor of Thrax
3:40:56 - Chapter 14: Terminus Est
3:55:32 - Chapter 15: Baldanders
4:13:50 - Chapter 16: The Rag Shop
4:29:20 - Chapter 17: The Challenge
4:43:45 - Chapter 18: The Destruction of the Altar
5:00:42 - Chapter 19: The Botanic Gardens
5:18:55 - Chapter 20: Father Inire's mirrors
5:35:26 - Chapter 21: The Hut in the Jungle
5:50:41 - Chapter 22: Dorcas
6:03:28 - Chapter 23: Hildegrin
6:18:08 - Chapter 24: The Flower of Dissolution
6:34:28 - Chapter 25: The Inn of Lost Loves
6:51:28 - Chapter 26: Sennet
7:03:56 - Chapter 27: Is He Dead?
7:15:10 - Chapter 28: Carnifex
7:28:24 - Chapter 29: Agilus
7:42:15 - Chapter 30: Night
7:56:17 - Chapter 31: The Shadow of the Torturer
8:09:30 - Chapter 32: The Play
8:28:15 - Chapter 33: Five legs
8:41:13 - Chapter 34: Morning
8:52:26 - Chapter 35: Hethor
9:15:36 - Appendix

And if the sunshine is too bright for you...

:cool:
Lightning Seeds - Four Winds
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LCVXSPoETek

The year was '65
Outside your room was where I'd lie
To hear those Dylan tunes
In the afternoon
We never seemed to share a point of view
And thunderclouds were never far away
And every day
I guess you got those blues
And when you get those blues
There's nothing you can do
I wish four winds could blow you home
Back to when we'd sit and find a way
To face today
I guess you got those blues
And when you get those blues
There's nothing you can do
No one to turn to
When you get those blues
When you get those blues
There's nothing you can do

Songwriters: Ian Broudie. For non-commercial use only.

Lightning Seeds - Sunshine (Official Audio)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=flbVTa0dIZo

In the sunshine
Every little thing feels fine
Sunshine

I was dreaming in a dream tonight
On a cloud I was riding high
Fixing a hole in the sky
The stars disappeared with a kiss
And left us the morning mist
We're helpless to resist

Sometimes
The sun shines
In my heart
And every little thing feels fine

I woke up and now I'm feeling strange
Like a pawn that got lost in a game
I'd like to dream it again
Things may go bump in the night
The world is dark but the moon is bright
Here comes

The sunshine
Sometimes
In my heart
Every little thing feels fine

Every little thing feels fine
Here comes

The sunshine
Sometimes
In my heart
Every little thing feels fine

In the sunshine (sunshine)
Sometimes (sunshine)
Every little thing (sometimes) feels fine (sunshine)
In the sunshine (sunshine)
Every little thing feels fine

They've heard of this Path of Hope, but never having seen it, they scoff and shrug, looking at the ground, firmly denying it. — Hanover

:hearts: :sparkle:

The OP is confused. — Philosophim

Are you sure about that?

The OP needs to deal with their pain. They can one day find peace if they work for it. — Philosophim

Are you sure about that?

The issue has been 'worked' on before by Darkneos:

Previously discussed:
https://thephilosophyforum.com/discussion/10121/reason-for-living/p1
7 pages worth. — Amity

That's not to say it's not worthwhile discussing again. I did that!
Different time, different posters; pretty much same arguments, assumptions and responses.

However, it makes me question the intention of the OP, rightly or wrongly.

I was wondering if anyone else thinks similarly or if they have a counter to what I've mentioned. I realize I'm alone, but also I have a hard time discussing this anywhere else because people immediately say you need therapy. I consider that a dodge to my stance on this and a symptom of society's collective fear around death, I mean we can't even talk about it without people thinking there is something "Wrong" with you. — Darkneos

[ emphasis added]

Worth considering?
There seems to be an appeal to fellow would-be suicides...
Join the club. Us against the rest of the world.
Darkneos seems to have been doing this for years. Going from forum to forum.
Fishing.

How many pages will this run to...?
We love to hear ourselves talk, don't we?

[Death] I think it's safe to say it's the end of all things of life. Love, joy, sadness, fear, anger, pain, etc. To me that sounds like a good deal. — Darkneos

I agree that it's the end of self; all feelings, and emotions.
However, some things hang about for a while, like your effect on others.

Why is it a good deal not to feel anything at all?
Of all the emotions, which disturbs you the most?

...in death I will have no desire or need to do any of that stuff so it's a moot point and not really a reason to stick around. I mean there would be no "me" right? — Darkneos

So, do you not care about anyone else other than 'you'?

That said suicide isn't an option, at least with the current stance on it. Survival drive is too strong so the best is to live comfortably until death comes to claim me. — Darkneos

Suicide is always an option if anyone really wants to end their life.
You can go slow, slow, or quick depending on tool of choice. Not that I'm recommending it.
What 'current stance' are you talking about?

I agree the survival drive is strong. Why is that?
The need to pass on DNA? Are we here only as animals?

The best way to live.
Is it, as you say, to live comfortably?
Unlikely, even if it were possible. What does it mean to you, to live in comfort?
To be certain, to feel in control?

I tend to view existence as a chore to tolerate, — Darkneos

If you have decided your only option is to stay, then why not view life as less of a chore, more of a challenge? Not merely existing...
'Until death comes to claim you'?

Zoom out for a different perspective. Death can happen at any moment.
It's not about being claimed as if you are a worthless piece of baggage!

I realize I'm alone, but also I have a hard time discussing this anywhere else because people immediately say you need therapy. I consider that a dodge to my stance on this and a symptom of society's collective fear around death, I mean we can't even talk about it without people thinking there is something "Wrong" with you. — Darkneos

You are not alone. Even if you are on your own or feel lonely and an outsider.
Some quality responses here, yes? No dodges.
Who are the people that say you need therapy? How much do their opinions matter?
Is there anything else going on - depression?

Is your stance on this fixed for all time?
Or are you willing to listen to others? Read their words carefully. They have taken the time.

It sounds to me like you do care. Enough to share something we can all relate to.
Stay safe :sparkle:

Forgive this addendum:
[ Sometimes I wonder if such OPs are worth responding to, or if it's all attention-seeking]

Edit:

Previously discussed:
https://thephilosophyforum.com/discussion/10121/reason-for-living/p1
7 pages worth.