This^.
Regards
DL

What would we do in a world without a war on drugs? The possibilities are limitless. — uncanni

You have done some research on this issue and reached the right conclusions.

I think we are on the moral side, --- but then the question becomes, --- how do we get the legislation passed wherever we are?

People do not care about their kids the way we used to.

Regards
DL

OmniscientNihilist — OmniscientNihilist

What side do you favor, and why?

Regards
DL

When it comes to moral norms of a religion, would this mean that free will doesn’t actually exist at all? — whatsgoinon

I would, as I have read the bible, which says that god annuls all of our free will to think as we choose, by hardening, or not, our hearts.

I gave a new O.P. on this should you not wish to derail here.

https://thephilosophyforum.com/discussion/6976/are-non-believers-doomed-by-divine-design

Regards
DL

Sweet, I always wanted to do that. Do we get to be part of it? Is it internet? — Zelebg

You are it.

Where, other than your own mind, can any rendering of any god or ideal exist?

God can only exist in your own mind.

Have a look at the creation of man painting in the Vatican. It shows god laying in our minds.

Regards
DL

Hope this can be of some help! — CFR73

It is not as your ideas have Jesus being a moral monster just as Yahweh is.

Look at all the laws you want Jesus to break.

On Jesus dying for you.

It takes quite an ego to think a god would actually die for you, after condemning you unjustly in the first place.

You have swallowed a lie and don’t care how evil you make Jesus to keep your feel good get out of hell free card.

It is a lie, first and foremost because, like it or not, having another innocent person suffer or die for the wrongs you have done, --- so that you might escape responsibility for having done them, --- is immoral. To abdicate your personal responsibility for your actions or use a scapegoat is immoral.

You also have to ignore what Jesus, as a Jewish Rabbi, would have taught his people.

Ezekiel 18:20 The soul that sinneth, it shall die. The son shall not bear the iniquity of the father, neither shall the father bear the iniquity of the son: the righteousness of the righteous shall be upon him, and the wickedness of the wicked shall be upon him.

Deuteronomy 24:16 (ESV) "Fathers shall not be put to death because of their children, nor shall children be put to death because of their fathers. Each one shall be put to death for his own sin.

Psa 49;7 None of them can by any means redeem his brother, nor give to God a ransom for him:

There is no way that you would teach your children to use a scapegoat to escape their just punishments and here you are doing just that.

Jesus is just a smidge less immoral than his demiurge genocidal father, and here you are trying to put him as low in moral fibre as Yahweh.

Regards
DL

Could you provide examples of "depictions"? — Beoroqo

Yes. The link above, as well as the lies said about a god that no one can show exists.

Regards
DL

What is it with the US and ridiculous preachers ? — fresco

The fact that we/you tolerate the perpetual lying preachers.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7y1xJAVZxXg

Regards
DL

Time will tell.
Both science and religions now have gods of the gaps.
Regards
DL

What crap. — Banno

I see a genocidal god lover. Bite me.

Regards
DL

414 — litewave

I fear more being eternal and being bored to tears in an eternity of what wold seem like re-runs that I have seen a million times over.

Big Bang, Big Crunch, Big Bang, Big Crunch, Big Bang, Big Crunch, Big Bang, Big Crunch, Big Bang, Big Crunch, Big Bang, Big Crunch, Big Bang, Big Crunch, Big Bang, Big Crunch.

Porn movie and even sex if allowed x many time, like 7678966668978008898000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000 = times would even get borrrrrrrrrrrrrring.

Regards
DL

Increasing awareness, connection and collaboration — Possibility

Those can only come to you if you have already insured you are alive.

Without survival, nothing else can follow.

A dead mind/consciousness cannot be aware or connect and collaborate with anyone.

Regards
DL

But I think survival as the main purpose of knowing yourself is misguided, and I think pursuing our survival as the ultimate goal is pointless. — Possibility

If survival is not your main goal in life, what is?

Regards
DL

frank — frank

Point to you on this.

Morals are usually the last thing someone is elected on.

Trump and our choice of putrid mainstream gods should be all one needs look at for confirmation on this.

Regards
DL

I'd rather keep the commons and teach people to use it well. — Banno

Have you just read what the present controller/protector of our rain forest just said about his protecting the rain forests for the world, as he burns it for cows?

"I owe the world nothing".

A Czar is the only one who can make it worth while for that President's mind and actions.

Regards
DL

Nuh. — Banno

In an emergency, there should only be one voice to organize the protective forces.

Spaceship Earth needs a Captain. Think Star Trek and number one's first priority.

Regards
DL

Possibility — Possibility

What I see our friend saying is that he seeks gnosis as described in this link.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_9QI3nlinYQ

Do you think knowing yourself as fully as possible is pointless to our survival?

Regards
DL

The way things are going we won't make a god; indeed, we will be lucky to make it to next Tuesday. — Banno

I agree. We need an ecosystem Czar so as to protect it.

Regards
DL

Yes absolutely, if we create a “technological god” we will probably (and should) become one with it rather than it being something separate from us. — Pfhorrest

Socrates would agree and so do I.

Have you heard some of the eco warriors who are beginning to say that we should let science decide what to do with our present major extinction event that might include mankind?

They are telling politicians to get out of the way of the scientists and start legislating from science's POV.

Regards
DL

Is mankind based on individuals or can mankind also be viewed as a singular entity as a species? — N Es

Both I think.

Think of Darwin when he posited that there would likely be a finch with a 6in. proboscis a long time before it was discovered due to his seeing some flowers that the finches he knew of could not feed on due to having short proboscises.

If the short throated orchids would have gone extinct, so would the finches with short proboscises and the more rare long proboscis finches would have taken over.

The same would apply to Neanderthal and modern man although we do not yet know why Neanderthal went extinct.

Regards
DL

litewave — litewave

Nicely put and I agree.

Regards
DL

and can easily lead to all the kinds of judgments both of us have been arguing against in this thread. — Coben

??

I am all in for judgements.
We judge hundreds of things daily and I follow this good advice religiously.

1 Thessalonians 5:21 Test all things; hold fast what is good.

What did I put that made you think I was against judging?

Regards
DL

Coben

950

↪Gnostic Christian Bishop Wait are you now saying that hate is evil? — Coben

I am saying that analogically thinking says that love and hate can be replaced with good and evil.

We must compete and cooperate in our evolutionary journey.

I see the evils of competition and the creation of losers to those competitions as a small evil within a greater good. It selects the fittest, which is evolutions inadvertent goal.

Regards
DL

Now you have changed your wording, from love and hate to good and evil. These categories are not the same thing. — uncanni

Analogical thinking says they are. I changed the wording so that you would understand that baby link better than you do.

Regards
DL

...even though your decision to act was also influenced by your feelings of preference towards one child over another...ok — Possibility

That is your assumption. Not mine.

I don't know, so you are showing your own thinking.

Why not? — Possibility

Genetic mutations which effect thinking.

even create the right conditions in our own minds. — Possibility

Yes. Some can create their own delusions.

Regards
DL

And if so, how do you explain that to your wife? — Possibility

First. I am pleased that you could not come up with a scenario where you would put a stranger ahead of your child, even as you say that you could under the right conditions.

As to how I would explain it to my wife. I would say I chose the one whose life I had a better chance of saving.

I saw a clip which I did not keep of a woman in a tsunami having her two children on a float with her.

The younger toddler fell of and she let go of the older sibling 6 or 7 year old to save the younger.
She got lucky as the older manage to save himself. That was quick and instinctive but I don't know if we would all react the same way.

I don't know how she would explain her choice as I have forgotten if she did or not.

Regards
DL

or anything that would suggest highly negative infantile emotions. — uncanni

He chose the good which shows his positive bias which rejected the other due to his negative bias.
No one said that hate necessarily created violence.

You conclude that because you hate, ergo everyone hates? This is an absurd conclusion. It's true that lots of folks hate, but you could never demonstrate that everyone does. — uncanni

That clip used the terms good and evil. I chose to use love and hate as analogies.

You seem to think that people can have a good bias but not an evil bias. You would be wrong.

Regards
DL

But I don't see anything about hating versus loving — uncanni

Then watch it again for the first time to see that a negative bias is created at the same time as a positive bias. That is love creating hate against all that would threaten what is loved.

If you don't agree then show what creates our hate biases.

Regards
DL

Where do you come up with this kind of thing? — uncanni

Science. Try it. If your swollen head and ego will let you.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8LIb22-5Lwg

Regards
DL

Could it be that we are unknowingly creating god on earth? Were we put here to begin a chain of reactions leading to a technological god emerging on Earth? — bronson

Yes, our purpose to create God on Earth.

The bible is even clear on this if you read it the right way. The Gnostic Christian way.

That is why all of our gods are man made. We are just not supposed to let ourselves be subsumed by them.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vJ1PDxeUynA

Regards
DL

Essentially it's our primitive counterpart. — Fruitless

??

Was it our primitive counterpart ways that cause us to fight against slavery?

Or was it our more altruistic and empathic and equality seeking modern thinking?

Regards
DL

You can do better than that!!! — uncanni

You are the stupid one if you think you can do better than nature and the instincts that guide you.

Regards
DL

This is not a question of love. It’s the same as asking me which of my two children I would choose in the same situation, and then trying to tell me that choice has anything to do with love. — Possibility

So you can see yourself saving your neighbor's child instead of your own.

Wow.

Don't tell your wife why or she, if smart, will drop you like a hot potato. Your a pathetic human.

Regards
DL

The organism is reacting to outside stimuli. And then in some cases it is helpful to be mobilized by powerful emotions. One need not necessarily act on them, but to be mobilized and sometimes expressive without violence, given that we are social mammals, is often necessary. And then of course sometimes we need to defend ourselves physically. — Coben

Nicely put.

Regards
DL

What is the point of hate? — Fruitless

All our biases are in us to protect us, be they love biases or hate biases.

When you create a love bias, you automatically form a hate bias against anything that will jeopardize that which you love.

Regards
DL

I don’t need to love those close to me more. That’s the point. — Possibility

You do not need to for sure, but if you do not love those close to you mare than others, you do not know how to love.

If you had to save either your child or an acquaintance from fire, (lets say), who would you choose?

Regards
DL

I don’t need to love others less in order to love my family and friends as much as I do. — Possibility — Possibility

The law of excluded middle refers to truth value. How does it apply here?[/quote]

Let me rephrase for clarity and you breaking that law.

I don’t need to love others less in order to love my family and friends more.

I hope you see how you painted yourself into an illogical corner.

You, of course, have to love others less if you are to love those close to you more.

Regards
DL

(You either get it or you don't) — Fruitless

Nice teaching method.

And Lastly, Can you describe your definition of hate?
Hate to me is the desire to remove that thing from existence. — Fruitless

That is killing, IMO.

Not hate.

I offer no definition that would contradict or add to the dictionary.

I think you have with removing things from existence.

Regards
DL

Reciprocity rules? Are you saying we should go back to ‘an eye for an eye, a tooth for a tooth’? — Possibility

Back?

I don’t need to love others less in order to love my family and friends as much as I do. — Possibility

You break the law of the excluded middle. Put that in the dust bin.

When did we stop trying to make the punishment suit the crime?

Regards
DL

And fix him so he won't do it again. — Fruitless

An eye for an eye is your law so zipper down or break your own law.

Hate leads to impulsive behaviour, how many crimes and deaths and dreadful events have resulted because of hate and could have been prevented by peace? War. — Fruitless

I hear you and you have exemplified your hate of what you do right here with you fixing that rapist.
You became your enemy.

You must understand that other individuals are no where near in the same thought pattern as you, we — Fruitless

I'm not sure I follow. What pattern do you see?

That is why I find it very hard to hate — Fruitless

Hating is a demonstration of what is loved.

That is why I used the rape scenario.

I put what you loved in jeopardy and poof, there was the hate I wanted ti show you in yourself.

You would not give it up just as I would not give up mine.

Regards
DL