I think hate is unnecessary and a completely illogical response to a situation. — Fruitless

Really.

What emotion would you feel if you got home and found a rapist on your wife?

What is the logical emotion you should feel?

Regards
DL

When we hate those who hate, are we justified? — Possibility

Reciprocity rules say it is.

To tolerate those who do not tolerate others is empowering them. It rewards evil with good.

One is either for them or against them.

Regards
DL

You may not see unconditional love, but the potential is there, nonetheless. — Possibility

If you think love has no conditions, you are sadly mistaken.

That is why you love family and friends more than others.

If you do not, you do not know what love is.

Regards
DL

Our hate biases protect us from nothing but reality. — Possibility

Exactly. A negative reality, while our love biases push us to what we see as a better loving reality.

Regards
DL

that we would support a government initiative to ‘wish them away’. — Possibility

Which we do not.

As to a different and better way to end what Hitler was doing, your wish list does not show it and I will not try to second history. I was not there.

You want unconditional love, and there is no such thing.

Our hate biases are there to protect us and you would discard them. Tsk tsk.

You make many assumptions, like what I quoted, while I prefer to deal with reality and facts.

Regards
DL

I want to reiterate here: I’m not arguing that hate is wrong, unnatural or even evil. Hating hate is a pointless exercise. My argument is that hate is ineffective, unnecessary and unjustifiable. — Possibility

You cannot justify hating murderers, rapists, Hitler etc., and allowing your hate to move you against such vile characters. Ok.

Hating Hitler and his ilk is what has us go to war. It was effective.

Regards
DL

I guess we should learn to live with the truth — TheMadFool

I find the truth sweet, as I do not think we should live in delusions.

There are too many in Socrates' cave. Therein lies the grey area you speak of.

Regards
DL

Yet all that is immoral is prohibited. — TheMadFool

One example against this is all I would need to refute your statement.

Our governments presently use the tax system to impose poverty.
Ghandi and others think that that is immoral, yet it is not prohibited.

I see religions doing the same, especially the televangelists.

Regards
DL

Hate is created by our feelings — Possibility

Correct. Yet you deny that it is the feeling of love that creates the hate.

Here is science making my point.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8LIb22-5Lwg

Regards
DL

You can’t blame reality for being real, just because you don’t agree with it. And you won’t change external reality by hating it. Lincoln, Rosa Parks and MLK understood that. — Possibility

True.

They knew actions were required and did what they could.

You may think they were motivated by something other than hate for the reality they lived in, but I do not think so because hate is created by our love biases and love for the good comes before the hate for the evil that threatens that which is loved.

Equality in the cases here.

And yes, hate has degrees, just as love has, so using the various degrees in discussions is kosher.

Regards
DL

That is

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UVivkbmu3To

for me.

Regards
DL

Seneca Advocate — Seneca Advocate

I have no problem in seeing the greater good that encloses the small human to human evils that we do to each other. I hope this old O.P. explains this concept well enough to create a discussion.

We naturally default to doing good, to the point that evolutionists are hard pressed to explain why we are so good to each other.

------------

Can you help but do evil? I do not see how. Do you?
And if you cannot, why would God punish you?

Christians are always trying to absolve God of moral culpability in the fall by putting forward their free will argument and placing all the blame on mankind.
That usually sounds like ----God gave us free will and it was our free willed choices that caused our fall. Hence God is not blameworthy. Such statements simply avoid God's culpability as the author and creator of human nature.

Free will is only the ability to choose. It is not an explanation why anyone would want to choose "A" or "B" (bad or good action). An explanation for why Eve would even have the nature of "being vulnerable to being easily swayed by a serpent" and "desiring to eat a forbidden fruit" must lie in the nature God gave Eve in the first place. Hence God is culpable for deliberately making humans with a nature-inclined-to-fall, and "free will" means nothing as a response to this problem.

If all do evil/sin by nature then, the evil/sin nature is dominant. If not, we would have at least some who would not do evil/sin. Can we then help but do evil? I do not see how. Do you?

Having said the above for the God that I do not believe in, I am a Gnostic Christian naturalist, let me tell you that evil and sin is all human generated and in this sense, I agree with Christians, but for completely different reasons. Evil is mankind’s responsibility and not some imaginary God’s. Free will is something that can only be taken. Free will cannot be given not even by a God unless it has been forcibly withheld.

Much has been written to explain evil and sin but I see as a natural part of evolution.

Consider.
First, let us eliminate what some see as evil. Natural disasters. These are unthinking occurrences and are neither good nor evil. There is no intent to do evil even as victims are created. Without intent to do evil, no act should be called evil.
In secular courts, this is called mens rea. Latin for an evil mind or intent and without it, the court will not find someone guilty even if they know that they are the perpetrator of the act.

Evil then is only human to human when they know they are doing evil and intend harm.

As evolving creatures, all we ever do, and ever can do, is compete or cooperate.
Cooperation we would see as good as there are no victims created. Competition would be seen as evil as it creates a victim. We all are either cooperating, doing good, or competing, doing evil, at all times.

Without us doing some of both, we would likely go extinct.

This, to me, explains why there is evil in the world quite well.

Be you a believer in nature, evolution or God, you should see that what Christians see as something to blame, evil, we should see that what we have, competition, deserves a huge thanks for being available to us. Wherever it came from, God or nature, without evolution we would go extinct. We must do good and evil.

There is no conflict between nature and God on this issue. This is how things are and should be. We all must do what some will think is evil as we compete and create losers to this competition.

This link speak to theistic evolution.

http://www.smithsonianmag.com/smart-news/pope-would-you-accept-evolution-and-big-bang-180953166/?no-ist

If theistic evolution is true, then the myth of Eden should be read as a myth and there is not really any original sin.

Doing evil then is actually forced on us by evolution and the need to survive. Our default position is to cooperate or to do good. I offer this clip as proof of this. You will note that we default to good as it is better for survival.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HBW5vdhr_PA

Can you help but do evil? I do not see how. Do you?
And if you cannot, why would God punish you?

Regards
DL

There are few people I detest more than liars like these two who prey on people. — petrichor

How do you like your government using your tax $$ to pay the shortfall created by religious tax exemptions?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7y1xJAVZxXg

I, like you I hope, hate supporting the liars yet have no choice in this.

Regards
DL

In almost all cases where hate can be argued to be something good, it's actually love for the opposite thing that's good - — Judaka

Exactly the point I want to make.

When we create a love bias, we automatically create a hate bias against anuthing that would jepordize that which is loved.

All our biases are created to help us through life.

That is what makes hate good.

Regards
DL

Oh, I got so frustrated with being a slave

sounds absurd to me. — Coben

Ditto.

Regards
DL

You are unable to convince me of anything. I can't take you seriously — uncanni

Not my problem if you are belligerent and obtuse.

Regards
DL

In either case, a sad, strange figure. — Ciceronianus the White

Not to mention as immoral as they say Satan is. Christians call evil good.

Regards
DL

Perhaps this is your problem — uncanni

Perhaps your problem is not seeing that evolution to us is more important than the small evils to those who are less fit.

Regards
DL

To strive to change the status quo in favour of something better is not hate. Frustration, sometimes - but not hate. — Possibility

Semantics. hate, like love, is a great motivator to action.

Regards
DL

If you're only interested in justifying and rationalizing hatred and anti-social behavior, — uncanni

You are reading a lot of garbage into what I put.

Hatred has a good side and I never said word one on anti-social behavior, although I think that anti-social behavior is quite good when the cause is just.

You go ahead and ignore poor laws. I will continue to see fighting those as quite good.

Anti social behavior is a form of vigilantism and quite good for righting wrongs.

Regards
DL

You seem to be doing the same with nature. — Gnostic Christian Bishop

Never.

I see us and nature as evolving perfection, given that we are all living in the best of all possible worlds because it is the only possible world given our past.

Regards
DL

Hate does not have a ‘good’ side, and we are not ‘too good’ to each other, as a general rule. — Possibility

So you would have told Rosa Parks to not hate having to sit at the back of the bus nor act on that hate.

How about the hate against slavery in the Civil war? Would you tell the north not to hate slavery or go against it?

Ignore evil if you want. I will encourage its hate so that those who can will fight evil.

Regards
DL

What???? The book has nothing to do with religion!!!! — uncanni

I did not mention the book.

I did a quick scan on the author whom I critiqued.

Regards
DL

Here's how your trolling /preaching twaddle operates. — fresco

Great minds discuss ideas; average minds discuss events; small minds discuss people. Eleanor Roosevelt

Regards
DL

What you disagree with is fundamental equality. Like God, it cannot be proven. But God-freaks do not have a monopoly on belief. If you do not believe in our equality in the nature of reality, there is no further point communicating. — Drazjan

Eh, no.

Gnostic Christians are unive4rsalists who have tied equality to the righteousness of god.

We believe in equality under the law and that is why we, unlike Christians and Muslims, are not homophobic and misogynous.

That is a pat of why some say the only good Christian is a Gnostic Christian.

http://gnosis.org/library/ephip.htm
On Righteousness --- The righteousness of God is a kind of sharing along with equality.

That aside, I refuse to bring women and children down to my level with equality and believe that the law of the sea that puts women and children first is the moral position for all of us men.

As a naturalist, I think that that is man's cross to bear.

Regards
DL

And if they don't, what are you going to do? Tickle them? — frank

No. Enter their names in my, --- too stupid to bother with, --- file.

Regards
DL

No human being has ever possessed esoteric, secret, or individual revelations about the nature of reality. — Drazjan

I mostly agree with your post but not this part.

For starters, you phrase it as a logical fallacy that you cannot prove and second, we are not sure of all the aspects of reality.

For instance, I hold the knowledge that telepathy is real and that belies your views. Science has confirmed telepathy between twins as well.

Regards
DL

How is it a problem for you? — frank

I do not have a problem with Christians being idol worshipers, if they admit it.

Regards
DL

But he's already banned — joshua

Seems not.

Regards
DL

The turgid parasitic baiting of 'traditional religionists' is the only activity the author does on this and other forums. — fresco

Why do you favor a homophobic and misogynous religion that has it's adherents thinking that a genocidal god is a good god.

Here is my motivation.

If you think you should live by the Golden Rule, change the labels in this quote to women, minorities, gays or children being brainwashed by religions and it shows what we should be thinking and doing for each other.

"First they came for the Jews, but I did nothing because I'm not a Jew. Then they came for the socialists, but I did nothing because I'm not a socialist. Then they came for the Catholics, but I did nothing because I'm not a Catholic. Finally, they came for me, but by then there was no one left to help me." – Pastor Father Niemoller (1946)”

If not, you show a corrupted moral sense.

Regards
DL

Personally I'd go in for a more mystical, philosophical Jesus. He'd only sound crazy to those who didn't decode his metaphors. — joshua

That is the Gnostic Christian Jesus, while the one you do not favor is the Rome created Jesus.

Here is how Gnostic Jesus talked. Here is the real way to salvation that Jesus taught.

Matthew 6:22 The light of the body is the eye: if therefore thine eye be single, thy whole body shall be full of light.

John 14:23 Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him.

Romans 8:29 For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.

Allan Watts explain those quotes in detail.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=alRNbesfXXw&feature=player_embedded

Joseph Campbell shows the same esoteric ecumenist idea in this link.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aGx4IlppSgU

The bible just plainly says to put away the things of children. The supernatural and literal reading of myths.

Regards
DL

TV rules because it's close to the animated idols in our imaginations. — joshua

Yes. Our all important egos are being spoon fed by our money motivated masters.

Regards
DL

As a result, Islamic art is mostly geometrical and calligraphical. — Beoroqo

Mostly, yes, but they apply others showing depictions as idolatry or blasphemy so they must be recognizing the depictions as being of their idol. In fact, if apostates do not follow in just the prescribed idolatrous ways, you get killed, if you happen to live in a Muslim majority country running on Sharia law.

Regards
DL

aside from the visual form. — god must be atheist

Which is what is definitely forbidden.

Regards
DL

Idol worship is not about ideals. It is very constricted to the worship of a figure. A physical figure, a manifestation or likeness in physical features of another figure. Idol worship does not extend to the description of other attributes of god, aside from the visual form. — god must be atheist

You do not see Christians as seeing god as an ideal. Ok.

If god is not their notion of what an ideal god is, what ideal do they put above god?

Regards
DL

Have the believer somehow break and/or lose the symbol, the sign, the cross, the bust, picture, representation, figure, etc. of Jesus and see how it effects/affects them. — creativesoul

I could not say what sheeple would do if they had to follow what scriptures say.
They never have. But yes, it would certainly be a thing to see.

Regards
DL

But a charismatic ghost matters in the real world, made up or not. — joshua

Good post.

Jesus, especially, was aware of this intelligent thinking. That is why he urged us to elect a new god that seemed like him at the end times.

I am hoping that the world elects a new eco system Czar, be he charismatic or not, because without one, we could become one of the species heading for extinction in our present major extinction event.

We need a Czar with teeth for the planet as well as a moral person ruling all of it.

Regards
DL

On the other hand, the scriptures give no precise indication what god looks like. — god must be atheist

They try by making him a male who coveted Joseph's wife for reproduction and god is sure human like by showing that he is a deadbeat dad.

Regards
DL

"We all idol worship in some sense. If you can think analogically you will agree".

No I don't agree. — fresco

You have nothing you hold above anything else?
Money, family, friends or ideology.

Ok.

Regards
DL

I find "belief" necessarily inverts this, and should be discarded. — A Gnostic Agnostic

ASAP.

I have stated that the governments should have a revues and critique of all the religions of our country so as to at least let the people know what the experts think of them in both their moral views as well as overall views. That might at least have the right wingers stop their homophobia and misogyny.

The Noble Lie of the positive value of religions must end eventually. Soonest is best as more and more garbage religions are popping up.

Regard
DL