What was your question or objection? — boagie

Again? https://thephilosophyforum.com/discussion/comment/868183

(peripheral to the conflict)

Well done :D

Inviolability, life support and protection: guarantees for Lukashenka after the presidency have been determined (in Belarusian)
^{— Radio Svaboda · Dec 23, 2023}
President of Belarus gives himself immunity from prosecution and limits potential challengers
^{— Yuras Karmanau · AP · Jan 4, 2024}

Give the Houthi some missiles to attack the HMS Diamond?

After Novocherkassk: A New Chapter in Naval Warfare
^{— BNN · Jan 2, 2024}
Putin is asked to order NATO attack - but not from Russia (en)
^{— Marcus Oscarsson · Jan 4, 2024}

, hmm well ok, no response to my response to your comments before. Should those comments of yours be disregarded then?

Cheering on BRICS as if they were Manchester United instead eh... :) I guess you could fire up a new thread.

, I've only lived in the US for ≈ half a year, it was in the past and mostly business related. Not that it matters. But you're still not answering the comments, you resumed the (known) script instead (almost verbatim). :shrug:

, did you ignore my comments on purpose? They were responses to two of your comments (this, this) plus about promoting authoritarian regimes (maybe you are genuinely anti-democracy).

^{(responding according to a known script gives the impression that your comments are somewhat prepackaged, somewhat indicative of knowingly spreading propaganda)}

How James Webb Changed Astronomy (Primal Space · Apr 23, 2023 · 9m:11s)

, right, this is US colonialism. :lol:

, known nuclear weaponry placements as of ≈ Oct 16, 2022. Belarus (bordering Latvia Lithuania Poland Ukraine Russia) has reportedly received nuclear weaponry from Russia since. :scream:

If Putin's Russia were to assimilate a fifth of Ukraine, then their NATO-phobic argument would continue to apply to the remaining four-fifths of Ukraine just the same. If Putin's Russia was to assimilate all of Ukraine, then Putin's logic could equally be raised vice versa by Moldova Poland Romania Hungary Slovakia (Oct 13, 2022; Nov 26, 2022), and hence the EU. Open-ended, perpetual. — Sep 17, 2023

Keep up promoting authoritarian regimes (and reciting their propaganda). ;)


Hmm... Not wasting any time...

Mariupol City Council

Videos of Putin and the blockade of Leningrad: what Mariupol children will be taught during the occupation

The occupiers systematically continue to instill their ideology in the children of Mariupol. In schools, they hold "Conversations about the important", murderers are called "heroes", and Russian textbooks are brought to the libraries of educational institutions.

The so-called "Ministry of Education and Science of the Donetsk People's Republic" has already issued a plan of "educational measures" for 2024. They plan to "educate" children by showing video recordings of meetings between the Russian dictator and international criminal Putin with students.

They also plan to tell the students about the liberation of the besieged Leningrad from the fascists. However, they forget to tell about the blockade of Mariupol, which the Russians carried out in the spring of 2022.

Attempts to distort history and reality run into the memory of the people of Mariupol, who personally know who and what was done to their city for almost three months. The truth will surely win!
— Mariupol City Council · Jan 2, 2024

The present war started around Feb 27, 2014 when the Kremlin initiated grabbing Crimea; hardly a shot was fired. A direct pretext ("neither evil nor ignorant") was:

Protesters opposed what they saw as widespread government corruption and abuse of power, the influence of oligarchs, police brutality, and human rights violations.^(29)(30) Repressive anti-protest laws fuelled further anger.⁽²⁹⁾ — Revolution of Dignity (Wikipedia)

As mentioned in the parallel thread (now moved here), part of these efforts were about shedding the shackles of the dominant (regressing) northern neighbor, whom you'll notice have some of those same problems the Euromaidan protests were about. Protests/assembly have more or less been stomped out by the Kremlin. The Ukrainians are trying while being bombed. The Kremlin orders the bombing and their trying is on another path. (Pick your poison?)



Observed, documented. The supposed dire threat to Russia is to the Kremlin's (authoritarian) control/influence, not to democracy transparency freedom, not to Russian farmers. Sauli Niinistö mentioned some implications in his New Year's speech, which don't really look good.

Kicking off 2024, Sauli Niinistö and Oleksiy Danilov commented on the Ukrainian situation. As you'd expect, the outgoing Finnish president was measured and non-inflammatory (unless you're Putin perhaps), the head of the Ukrainian National Security and Defense less so. Their messages overlap, with some concerning (albeit not new) implications:

In Ukraine, the front has been almost stationary for a long time, but the war is in constant motion. It is fought on battlefields where every day claims its victims. The civilian population is not protected either.

I believe that it is not so much due to fatigue or lack of will. A more serious theme is ensuring the ability to help in the long term, sufficient resources. Europe must wake up.

Investing in weapons production is not necessary just to be able to provide the help that is needed. It is needed to ensure that Europe is strong, not for war, but for peace.

Russia is never as strong as it appears to be, and never as weak as it appears to be. Russia's intention to defeat Ukraine in a few weeks failed, as the bravery of the Ukrainians overcame the onslaught.
— Sauli Niinistö · Jan 1, 2024

Only the systematic, consistent and methodical destruction of putin's fascist formation is the only guarantee of security for Ukraine and the world, and the absence of a missile threat to peaceful cities. Give Ukraine weapons, and we will bury this piece of...
We have fought and will continue to fight, no matter how many missiles are flying in our sky. There is no force that can stop us in our fight to revenge all 514 murdered Ukrainian children, fallen defenders, and every innocent Ukrainian soul tortured.
We will pay off a hundredfold!
We thank the defenders of the Ukrainian sky and rescuers, doctors and power engineers, everyone who has stood up to russian terrorist attacks! — Oleksiy Danilov · Jan 2, 2024

The Kremlin's ongoing moves have created much animosity on the ground.

We know that there is no color or sound in the real world, it is [...] — boagie

Hmm... Are you saying that our experiences are not part of the real world? Sure, they might be existentially mind-dependent, yet aren't (also) minds part of the world? :chin:

The West wasn't willing to stick its neck out for Ukraine when — Tzeentch

neither the US nor Europe is willing to stick their neck out — Tzeentch

Well, then no one was. :shrug: China, North and South Korea, Saudi Arabia, Iran, Turkey, ...

the NordStream bombings which were obviously planned (and probably carried out) by the US — Tzeentch

... in your opinion (again)?

The Gremlin circle, with Pukin at the helm, has been telling a particular story, a tale of doom and destruction, a vast plot and dire existential threat:

As for our country, after the disintegration of the U.S.S.R., given the entire unprecedented openness of the new, modern Russia, its readiness to work honestly with the United States and other Western partners, and its practically unilateral disarmament, they immediately tried to put the final squeeze on us, finish us off, and utterly destroy us. — Vladimir Putin · Feb 24, 2022

In essence, Russia is fighting the notorious collective West, defending its very existence as a country, people, and civilization. — Valentina Matviyenko · Jun 10, 2022

We are fighting for our place in the world, for our historical future, and, undoubtedly, victory will be ours. Our country is now experiencing a truly historic moment. The main factor in Russia's development is its sovereignty, the right to independently determine its own destiny. Sovereignty is a guarantee of the well-being and dignity of our citizens, it is the future of our children. In such matters, Russia has never retreated and will not retreat, because otherwise it will cease to be Russia. — Sergey Naryshkin · Jul 5, 2022

Either we win in the way we consider our victory, or there will be World War III, sooner or later. I don't see any other way. — Margarita Simonyan · Dec 4, 2022

It is no longer a secret to anyone that the strategic goal of the United States and its NATO allies is 'victory over Russia on the battlefield' as a mechanism for significantly weakening or even destroying our country. — Sergey Lavrov · Dec 27, 2022

The Westerners' plans are to continue to pull Russia apart, and eventually just erase it from the political map of the world. — Nikolai Patrushev · Jan 10, 2023

We pray to the Lord that He will enlighten those madmen and help them understand that any desire to destroy Russia will mean the end of the world. — Patriarch Kirill of Moscow · Jan 19, 2023

The Western elite make no secret of their goal, which is, I quote, “Russia’s strategic defeat.” What does this mean to us? This means they plan to finish us once and for all. In other words, they plan to grow a local conflict into a global confrontation. This is how we understand it and we will respond accordingly, because this represents an existential threat to our country. — Vladimir Putin · Feb 21, 2023

If Russia stops its special military operation without achieving victory, there will be no Russia, it will be torn apart. — Dmitry Medvedev · Feb 22, 2023

Currently, we are again facing a serious danger. Exploiting Ukraine, the collective West seeks to break up Russia and to rob it of its independence. — Sergei Shoigu · Feb 23, 2023

They have one goal: to disband the former Soviet Union and its fundamental part — the Russian Federation. I do not even know if such an ethnic group as the Russian people will be able to survive in the form in which it exists today. — Vladimir Putin · Feb 26, 2023

The existential nature of threats to the security and development of our country, driven by the actions of unfriendly states is recognised. — Sergey Lavrov · Mar 31, 2023

Ukraine is a puppet of forces that want to destroy Russia and take away its historical lands. — Roman Starovoyt · Jan 22, 2024

for us this is about our destiny, a matter of life and death — Vladimir Putin · Feb 18, 2024

For the domestic audience it's a (hyperbolic) nationalistic call for unity (seen before), in general it's for anyone they might pick up along the way because of something negative about "the West" or NATO, which is easy enough. Many has independently commented (← you can check their credentials sources whatever yourself), including Catriona Kelly (Mar 20, 2022) · Ruth Deyermond (Mar 20, 2022) · Robert Person, Michael McFaul (Apr 2022) · Emily Ferris (Jul 27, 2022) · Andrew Katell (Feb 26, 2023) · Delhi audience (Mar 4, 2023) · Steven Pifer (Mar 6, 2023). NATO has kept tiptoeing around Russia.

The Kremlin's authoritarianism regress oppression opacity irredentism posturing polemic bombing is indeed threatening, and anyone valuing democracy transparency freedom can be expected to respond, which, granted, can also be threatening. Incidentally (perhaps), the Kremlin circle tends to conflate themselves and Russia, in their responses. It might be possible to argue that Armenia Israel Palestine Moldova whichever is endangered. But Russia? Get real. Ironically, the Kremlin's supposed grievances towards two or three continents + NATO, are Ukraine's real grievances towards the Kremlin.

Happy New Year, Ukraine. And Russia.

, I guess it's customary to discuss the context from world war 2 onwards.

Both parties lay claim to religio-historical areas (+ there's a contemporary geo-context) ... Both parties have exhibited sort of genocidal tendencies if you will ... The badness on both sides has been re-repeated throughout the threat...err...thread many times (often by loud partisans) ...

What am I missing? :) What would be some good stuff, suggestions toward peace stability prosperity, forward-looking, something like that? (assuming there are any)

, the (supposedly) religious aspects aren't quite as innocent as you seem to describe.

Persecution of Zoroastrians
^{— Wikipedia}
Muhammad Bakhtiyar Khalji (1150-1206)
^{— Wikipedia}

Still to this day, in some cases. :/

Iranian Regime Inciting Hatred, Persecuting Zoroastrian Minority
^{— Ahmad Majidyar · The Middle East Institute · Feb 3, 2017}

↑ There are some genocidal tendencies in this stuff, and the (seemingly) religious aspects of the Israel-Hamas conflict aren't pretty either. If those aspects could somehow be "filtered out" (for all parties), then peace would have a better chance.

(Animated map shows how religion spread around the world (Business Insider · Jul 14, 2015 · 2m:35s))

:D

Chinese spy balloon used US internet provider to communicate its location
^{— Katie Bo Lillis · CNN · Dec 29, 2023}

Parnas confession or story-telling?

Lev Parnas didn't testify in Trump Ukraine scandal. Will he appear in Biden impeachment?
^{— Antonio Fins · Palm Beach Post · Dec 29, 2023}

(Should this be posted in "Donald Trump (All General Trump Conversations Here)"?)

Has anyone ever considered whatever good the various parties have done...? :D

Jussayin' (not that I have a particular answer myself).

Informative reads, spanning roughly a year:

Russian fighter jets are struggling in Ukraine, but Ukraine can't beat their missiles and radars, researchers say
^{— Michael Peck · Business Insider · Dec 20, 2022}
The air war over Ukraine
^{— Gerry Doyle, Mariano Zafra · Reuters · Dec 14, 2023}

Ukrainian air defense has had more success than I thought.

Again, 'no-fly zone' is simply 'starting the war with Russia', which NATO countries are unwilling to do. — Jabberwock

There's a bit more to it, but, OK, so a combined international air force can simply be ruled out. (EOS)
I have no idea what kind of S-400 stocks Russia has; these are their high-end systems as far as I know.

Justification isn't missing; will is missing — Dec 29, 2023

... which adds a bit to Kremlin impunity.

The zone would include all of Ukraine (well, it's at Kyiv's discretion). Whatever the gory details of such an initiative, I don't know.

It still would be NATO member planes bombing targets in Russia — Jabberwock

Members, sure. (Might also be members of the EU / Asian air forces, heck, send Xi an official notification-invite for that matter.) But they wouldn't bomb inside Russia (for a while, depending), except due threats to be issued for Russian missiles entering Ukrainian airspace (direct violation). Would put the invading forces into a defensive position, taking initiative from the precarious situation of being "sitting ducks with some repellent". If bombs/missiles go Russia → Ukraine, then bombs/missiles may equally go → Russia. What's an expected range for anti-fighter-bomber SAMs (not anti-ballistic/cruise-missile SAMs)? The Kremlin's actions were repeatedly condemned by the UN, in violation of international law, which they've given a(n impunity) hand-wave. Justification isn't missing; will is missing, contrary to pledges since 2022 by various parties.

But, [...] it's not likely to happen — Dec 27, 2023

It can turn into a frozen conflict if Ukraine is not tossed under the bus, otherwise all bets are off. FYI, a somewhat related discussion paper:

Setting Transatlantic Defence up for Success: A Military Strategy for Ukraine’s Victory and Russia’s Defeat (also CEPA · Dec 17, 2023)
^{— Ministry of Defence, Estonia · AP · Dec 2023}

Anyway, at the moment, I find North Korea worrisome.

North Korea's Kim orders military to accelerate war preparations
^{— Soo-Hyang Choi, Chris Reese, Jamie Freed, Raju Gopalakrishnan · Reuters · Dec 28, 2023}

Putin has Kim's ear. Pyongyang is amenable to the Kremlin. Could they quietly nudge North Korea to do something drastic?

It is not a big surprise. — javi2541997

What about the surprise to Xi? Maybe that shouldn't have come as a surprise; reportedly it did though.


In other news:

Takeaways from AP investigation into Russia’s cover-up of deaths caused by dam explosion in Ukraine
^{— Samya Kullab, Illia Novikov · AP · Dec 28, 2023}

BRICS FOREVER, AN END TO COLONIALISM — boagie

@boagie, are you a bot...?

'No-fly zone' effectively means 'bombing Russian SAM sites by NATO forces'. How exactly is that different from NATO starting a war with Russia? — Jabberwock

Well, it wouldn't be a NATO operation (under the auspices of NATO), except the combined force would include NATO members. More importantly, it would be a bona fides Ukraine defense operation, operating in Ukraine, irrespective of invader, within Kyiv's mandate. Wouldn't be an invasion of Russia. But, you're right, it could (incorrectly) be perceived/cast (by some) as NATO warring against Russia, which would be propagandized, especially because such a move can push invading forces out of Ukraine. That's the "wargame" set up by Kremlin strategists. Ironically perhaps, such a move could save lives, defender/Ukrainian lives at least (while limiting propagation of Kremlin authoritarianism).

But, [...] it's not likely to happen — Dec 27, 2023

Analysis: Putin promises Xi to 'fight for five years' in Ukraine
^{— Katsuji Nakazawa · Nikkei Asia · Dec 28, 2023}

↑ some of this is news to me

What many people don't seem to realize is that this, too, is democracy. The problem isn't Trump, isn't Orban, it's the very phenomenon of democracy itself. In a democracy, people defend their own interests. And this inevitably leads to tensions. A common way of coping with those tensions is to try to discredit the others. — baker

I'd go further and call this crap a cultural or human thing. Democracy has always contained the possibility of its own undoing, it just takes a majority vote of someone non- or anti-democratic.

Continuing earlier suggestions, this can work to free Ukraine (whatever links are embedded)...

• no-fly zone in Ukrainian airspace officially declared by Ukraine
• Ukrainian no-fly zone (and that alone) maintained by combined international air force designated so by Kyiv
• with advance warning, hostilities toward combined air force deterred or neutralized

To my knowledge, there isn't anything against this by international law. Besides, it's Ukrainian airspace. Logistics etc demanding. Where combined air force lands is irrelevant as long as OK'd by Kyiv (it's their airspace to defend, their choice to make). None of this is proxy war or terrorism, or intended so. After some time with clearer skies, civilians can be expected to be a bit safer, though not to the extent of resuming international commercial air traffic.

• combined air force turn to hostile artillery, missiles + launchers, mortars, ammunition depots, arms transports

Combined air force not limited by minefields. Can be monitored by international observers, e.g. to ensure integrity or whatever. After some time, civilians can be expected to be safer, maybe to the extent that Ukrainians having fled can return (assuming what they call home hasn't been razed). As of typing a fifth or so of Ukraine is occupied.

• Ukrainian ground forces can better sweep minefields and move

Call it a "special defense operation" if you must (or escalation or both). Doubtful that the Kremlin can withstand such a move (cf their posturing propaganda threats). A fairly straightforward strategy. Can send a message to other would-be invaders, by the way. But, while reasonable enough, it's not likely to happen (giving fuel to things like @boethius's "drip feed" hypothesis), at least not with NATO as the combined international air force:

What is a no-fly zone, and why has NATO so far rejected calls for one over Ukraine?
^{— Teaganne Finn · NBC · Mar 7, 2022}

Incidentally, such a combined air force could ask Kyiv for additional (political democratic transparency non-aggression) guarantees. Pro et contra?

(apologies for the copy/paste)

For sure the people in Washington are evil, and the people in Brussels are ignorant. But my intention was never to exonerate Russia, rather to make clear that the West is just as bad as they, and that all this narrative spin is just window dressing for a cynical game that is about power and nothing else. — Tzeentch

Neither evil nor ignorant:

Protesters opposed what they saw as widespread government corruption and abuse of power, the influence of oligarchs, police brutality, and human rights violations.^(29)(30) Repressive anti-protest laws fuelled further anger.⁽²⁹⁾ — Revolution of Dignity (Wikipedia)

More copy/paste that pertains to the comment:

(There's a bit more at Euromaidan (Wikipedia).)

Part of this stuff was about shedding the shackles of the dominant (regressing) northern neighbor, whom you'll notice have some of those same problems the Euromaidan protests were about. Protests/assembly have more or less been stomped out by the Kremlin. The Ukrainians said "No", looked elsewhere, backed by the UN (ES-11/6 and prior), and have gone through moves addressing some of those problems in negotiation with the EU. I'd have thought it difficult in wartime, but they have made some improvements. They're trying, while being bombed. The Kremlin orders the bombing, and their trying is on another path.

A covert conspiracy for Ukraine to become a modern democracy, eh? :D "The Kremlin involvement" was of a different nature. — Dec 26, 2023

There are observations evidence references documents developments whatever — specifically related to Euromaidan — not exactly all from the US (or specifically related to the US). — Dec 26, 2023

Questionable in terms of evil/ignorant:

Contrariwise (selling and) "simply buying your postulate" converges on conspiracy theory. Using it as a premise in arguments would then be misleading. — Dec 26, 2023

Prejudice overriding example to the contrary. :/

I know why. I should follow the money. — Merkwurdichliebe

Have you followed the oil industry money?

, that's too bad. There are observations evidence references documents developments whatever — specifically related to Euromaidan — not exactly all from the US (or specifically related to the US). Contrariwise (selling and) "simply buying your postulate" converges on conspiracy theory. Using it as a premise in arguments would then be misleading.

EDIT ... Hmm this ↑ works in the direction of exonerating the Kremlin in 2014 because "conspiracy" :D

those evil damn Westerners, intruding with their democracy, "progressiveness", homosexuals, and — Mar 3, 2023

Hmm , you kept repeating your grievance with the US without responding to the Euromaidan comments, which was a response to a comment of yours. Stay on the Euromaidan track you initiated?

(I've only lived in the US ≈ half a year, mostly business related and in the past, if that's what you mean.)

I don't know how anyone can seriously deny US involvement in the Maidan coup — Tzeentch

Sure, there was "US involvement" (+ other involvement) supporting ...

Protesters opposed what they saw as widespread government corruption and abuse of power, the influence of oligarchs, police brutality, and human rights violations.^(29)(30) Repressive anti-protest laws fuelled further anger.⁽²⁹⁾ — Revolution of Dignity (Wikipedia)

(There's a bit more at Euromaidan (Wikipedia).)

Part of this stuff was about shedding the shackles of the dominant (regressing) northern neighbor, whom you'll notice have some of those same problems the Euromaidan protests were about. Protests/assembly have more or less been stomped out by the Kremlin. The Ukrainians said "No", looked elsewhere, backed by the UN (ES-11/6 and prior), and have gone through moves addressing some of those problems in negotiation with the EU. I'd have thought it difficult in wartime, but they have made some improvements. They're trying, while being bombed. The Kremlin orders the bombing, and their trying is on another path.

A covert conspiracy for Ukraine to become a modern democracy, eh? :D "The Kremlin involvement" was of a different nature.

The most direct cause of Crimea 2014 was the 2014 Revolution. It was a loss of control and influence for the Kremlin. Ukrainians explicitly started looking elsewhere, while the Kremlin circle has propagandized that Ukraine isn't a real country.

you missed our discussion about — frank

Apologies, yes, the comment assumed the US is still in NATO.

By the way, this stuff is also on-topic over here: Ukraine Crisis

, @Tzeentch is just going to recite Mearsheimer again. :)

Why do you say that? — frank

I'm just thinking that the Kremlin can't be that dumb. :) Then again, it's just conjecture on my part. I suppose they could make it look like they were attacked first?

They're more likely to inserting covert operatives/agents in such cases. — Dec 25, 2023

, it seems unlikely that Russia will attack NATO countries. They're more likely to insert covert operatives/agents in such cases.

That project sought the incorporation of Ukraine into NATO, and zero attention was paid to Russia's many objections, who spoke about red lines, fundamental security threats, etc. — Tzeentch

It's less so about NATO in particular and more so about what the Kremlin can control. That said, NATO is the most visible limit to the Kremlin's control, and hence what they talk about. Their officials have gone as far as saying that Russia is doomed for destruction unless they follow the (present) Kremlin.

You underestimate the (under)current of sentiments against the regressive authoritarian anti-democratic trajectory Putin has put Russia on. When this sort of down-slope happens to the largest country in the world, a technically developed country with resources, the danger can't be ignored (unless chosen to). As a result of the Ukrainians looking elsewhere, the Kremlin has come pretty close to portraying Kyiv as traitors (they went with Nazis).

Another one down:

Not long ago I announced my intention to run for office. On December 17, we held a meeting of the initiative group, which supported my nomination. On December 23, the Central Election Commission refused to register my initiative group.

Due to restrictions established by law, I will not be able to hold a second meeting of the initiative group, but we can nominate my candidacy from a political party. I ask you to consider the possibility of holding a congress and nominating me from the "Yabloko" party.
— Yekaterina Duntsova · Dec 23, 2023

The voiced claims of the commission for holding the meeting have no legal basis: we collected all the passport data of the participants in advance and verified them, the notary also certified that the signatures were signed with his own hands. Voting on issues on the meeting agenda took place in strict accordance with the law. Let me remind you that on the eve of the decision, the Ministry of Justice came to the notary with an "unscheduled inspection". — Yekaterina Duntsova · Dec 23, 2023

In the present system her chances would be slim anyway.

Hmm... Worries have been raised that the fighter-bombers were shot down by arms supplied by the West... I suppose, had they been supplied by Moldova or Lithuania, then the Kremlin could conceivably come up with another pretext for threats/aggression (though it would be a...posttext).

The Russia Aerospace Forces (VKS) reportedly lost three Su-34 attack aircraft in southern Ukraine between December 21-22. The Ukrainian Air Force reported that Ukrainian forces downed three Su-24 aircraft on December 22 in the southern direction, and Russian milbloggers claimed that Ukrainian air defenses downed the Russian aircraft in the Kherson direction near Krynky.[8] Russian milbloggers responded to the isolated incident with great concern about Ukraine’s air defense capabilities in southern Ukraine.[9] The VKS previously lost two Mi-8 helicopters, a Su-34 bomber, and a Su-35 fighter during an incident in Bryansk Oblast on May 13, 2023, which Russian forces similarly seized on to voice anxiety over Ukrainian air defense capabilities.[10]

[8]
https://www.facebook.com/GeneralStaff.ua/posts/pfbid09rfymGKjCXTxFQfY6whVqgpENGj9v1vpoQ96E7Jdj3TSDHtreps6abFAavdZNKpAl
https://t.me/MykolaOleshchuk/168
https://t.me/SJTF_Odes/4255
https://t.me/rybar/55255
https://t.me/notes_veterans/14411
https://t.me/milinfolive/112984
https://t.me/vysokygovorit/13928
https://t.me/NeoficialniyBeZsonoV/31769

[9]
https://t.me/milinfolive/112984
https://t.me/voenkorKotenok/52885
https://t.me/grey_zone/21718
https://t.me/notes_veterans/14411
https://t.me/rybar/55255
https://t.me/vysokygovorit/13928
https://t.me/NeoficialniyBeZsonoV/31769

[10]
https://www.understandingwar.org/backgrounder/russian-offensive-campaign-assessment-may-13-2023
https://www.rferl.org/a/russia-jets-helicopters-downed/32410378.html
— Russian Offensive Campaign Assessment: December 22, 2023 · Institute for the Study of War · Dec 22, 2023

Kyiv might have declared a no-fly zone in Ukrainian airspace [...] (Dec 10, 2023)

, toss the occasional envy in there for good measure. ;) But there are political and cultural problems, lots in need of improvements and attention. Fascista-Nazista creep just ain't the answer. (unless you want to leave it to me of course)

Anyway, problem-identification is one thing, I'm less optimistic about avoiding the known pitfalls. Pointing them out doesn't seem to have done much. :shrug:

Orbán has Trump's back.

'Evil is eating away at Western democracies,' says Hungarian PM Orban
^{— Euronews + Agence France Presse · Dec 21, 2023}

Such easy things to point out (especially when skipping the larger contexts), but, hey, maybe he's right. How would he characterize the Kremlin, then? (In public, no holding back, preferably?)

What sentiments are there here...?

• irrelevant, there's no climate change
• there's climate change, and it has nothing to do with humans
• there's climate change, and it won't affect humans
• there's anthropogenic climate change, and nothing can done
• whatever the case, risk assessments are required before anything else (best-case, worst-case)
• there's climate change, and we know too little, need more conclusive research before anything else
• there's climate change, and whatever can be done should be done for the sake of future humans
• a far-reaching revolution is required immediately to deal with climate change
• mankind is doomed, deal with it, and go on about your business
• climate scientists/activists = grifters

Something else or some combination?

It's too easy/cheap to point at some isolated thing or peddle/suggest conspiracy theories. I'm fairly sure some of those sentiments above can be binned, and others not so much.

^{Related: human "footprints" all over (roads, cities, farms, factories, wars, waste), impressive (post-)industrialization fossil burnage, pollution all over the place, population growth, anthropogenic resource deprivation, biodiversity impairment, extinctions, nature/wildlife displacement, deforestation, renewability, ...}

Well, another element of the climate grift was how they chose a child, Greta, as their spokesperson. That's a pretty classic example of grift. — Tzeentch

Besides, children don't make things believable. Only a fool would listen to a child on a topic like this. The choice of a child was deliberate, because people don't like to criticize children. And grifters don't like criticism. — Tzeentch

Yes, "they" ("them", "the secret behind-the-scenes conspirators") deliberately chose her while "hiding in the shadows", due to their "ulterior motives". :D A vast conspiracy, at that. The ↑ comments are just another example of ad hominem in service of incorrigible faith.

EDIT: apparently forgot one above: • climate scientists/activists = grifters

the Great Patriotic War — ssu

A mad time + place. The Great Purge preceded the Great Patriotic War. Incidentally, invading Nazis found mass graves from the genocidal activities of Stalin's NKVD (isn't often brought up, was after all used as propaganda by the Nazis). Not exactly the kinds of things we want to see again.

, if anything like that, the Kremlin pushed Finland towards NATO, that just doesn't sound as nice/imposing/strong in terms of Kremlin propaganda.

A century or so ago saw idiotic authoritarianism emerge in several places.

Mussolini, to be called Il Duce by his followers, kick-started his fascist thing in Italy, 1919, with Bianchi. In 1921 he turned it into his National Fascist Party, and from 1922 he turned Italy authoritarian, one step at a time. In a typical strong-man gesture, Italy rolled into Ethiopia in 1935.

Not much says ruthless authoritarian like Stalin, who held the Soviet Union (+ Russia) in a murderous iron grip from 1924 to 1953. Some of the European fascists declared themselves anti-communist and acquired followers that way, authoritarianism against authoritarianism.

Hitler, Der Führer, learned from Mussolini's fascism, and went on to do his Nazi thing. He took over Germany in 1933 and initiated the 2nd world war in 1939. Some methods that were systematized (+ "industrialized") by the Nazis have found employ to this day (state-governed directed indoctrination and propaganda, what-have-you).

Dollfuss took on power in Austria in 1932. A milder authoritarianism that didn't get along with the Nazis, who murdered him in 1934 and took over Austria in 1938.

Salazar ruled Portugal from 1932 to 1968. A relatively mild authoritarianism.

General Franco, Caudillo, dictator'ed Spain from 1939 to 1975 after The Spanish Civil War. A good buddy of Hitler's and Mussolini's.

In South America, Argentina had a string of authoritarian rule during the period, Uriburu (1930), Justo (1932), Ortiz (1938), Castillo (1942).

France and the UK also had idiotic movements around the time (just took some political disillusion), that fortunately didn't quite catch on (some other European nations were less infected). Similarly, North America saw The German American Bund (Nazism) and The Black Legion.

The influence of some of these fizzled down with the end of the 2nd world war, though quite not all.

Roughly a century later, the creepshow seems to be rearing its head again, as if there was no history to learn from. Anything familiar? Other parallels, anyone? Can't accept ongoing democracy, responsible freedom, transparency, humanitarian values, separation of religion and politics, whatever? Disillusioned? Just leave the ruling to me.

Russia boosts nuclear forces amid ‘hybrid war’ with the West: Putin
^{— Al Jazeera · Dec 19, 2023}

In Ukraine, those who are aggressive towards Russia, and in Europe and in the United States – do they want to negotiate? Let them. But we will do it based on our national interests. We will not give up what is ours. — Pukin

The article summarizes some of what's come out of the Kremlin lately. Threats (still) extend to a couple or three continents altogether; Moldova and Finland have received a bit more of that lately; their Ukraine objective apparently extends to, well, Ukraine. There doesn't seem to be much to come after.

Sanctions can be a way to express (for some at least) ...
• "We're not going to help, or partake in, what you're doing"
• "You won't benefit in any way from us while doing that, expect counter-measures"
• "We won't make it any easier for you to continue doing that"
• "Our depreciation is serious, and we won't be complicit or contribute"
Something along those lines. Expressed by action, not just statements (e.g. the UN).

Did the Kremlin move Russia into a wartime economy over Ukraine...? (Due to miscalculation?) What reactions do they expect from this stuff?

And who the heck is Igor Salikov anyway? If he is who/what he claims, I'd recommend carrying a Geiger counter and staying within walking distance of a hospital. Stay off balconies, too.