For one, because of simple metrics like population and geographics — Tzeentch

Well, they've managed for a good while, almost surrounded by hostiles/unfriendlies in superior numbers on the ground. (Though not exactly all as efficiently as Entebbe 1976.) Looking back, I kind of get the impression that they built out a (modern) society in a desert, however discriminatory/thefty.

and secondly because Israel's treatment of the Palestinian people is giving its neighbors common cause against it. — Tzeentch

The fires have been going for a good while, not new, and those hostiles/unfriendlies have been and remain one reason for their zeal in the first place. But, yes, they're not helping any reconciliation. Third-party (neutral) intervention/involvement may be necessary, though seemingly rejected by both parties.

@schopenhauer1, are you making a case for ...



... ? :)

László Toroczkai: If Ukraine fails, we will claim Transcarpathia
^{— bt · Index · Jan 27, 2024}

Everyone, grab a piece, first come first serve! — László Toroczkai (paraphrased)

:D

Hence ...

Other Minds (SEP)
Solipsism and the Problem of Other Minds (IEP)
Solipsism (Wikipedia)
Solipsism (Uncyclopedia)

... because others' self-awarenesses are harder still to derive than the ground you walk on.

Anyway, maybe minds are parts of the world, not somehow apart therefrom. After all, mind can affect world, and world can affect mind, alike. Then self-knowledge is also knowledge of the world in part. The perceiver just doesn't have to become the perceived to perceive that.

Going by knowledge as justified true belief, one can know of things extra-self.

Another of Medvedev's rabble-rousing :fire: outbursts:

Why Ukraine is dangerous for its inhabitants

The existence of Ukraine is mortally dangerous for Ukrainians. And I don’t mean only the current state, Bandera’s political regime. I'm talking about any, absolutely any Ukraine.

Why?
The presence of an independent state on historical Russian territories will now be a constant reason for the resumption of hostilities. Late. No matter who is at the helm of the cancerous growth under the name of Ukraine, this will not add legitimacy to his rule and the legal viability of the “country” itself. And, therefore, the likelihood of a new fight will persist indefinitely. Almost always. Moreover, there is a 100% probability of a new conflict, no matter what security papers the West signs with the puppet Kyiv regime. Neither Ukraine’s association with the EU, nor even the entry of this artificial country into NATO will prevent it. This could happen in ten or fifty years.

That is why the existence of Ukraine is fatal for Ukrainians. They are practical people at the end of the day. No matter how they now wish the Russians to die. No matter how much they hate the Russian leadership. No matter how much they strive to join the mythical European Union and NATO. Choosing between eternal war and inevitable death and life, the vast majority of Ukrainians (well, perhaps with the exception of a minimal number of frostbitten nationalists) will ultimately choose life. They will understand that life in a large common state, which they do not like very much now, is better than death. Their deaths and the deaths of their loved ones. And the sooner Ukrainians realize this, the better. — Dmitry Medvedev · Jan 17, 2024

'A kind of trolling'. Why Zelenskyy needs decree on Ukrainian lands in Russia: Historian's view
^{— Danylo Kramarenko, Nataliia Direyeva · RBC · Jan 22, 2024}

:D There are certain...analogies to that decree signed by Zelenskyy; maybe that was part of Kyiv's thinking.

Ukraine-Russia war: Russian regions 'historically Ukrainian', Zelensky claims
^{— Tim Sigsworth · The Telegraph · Jan 22, 2024}

Today’s actions by Zelensky once again prove that our president is right about launching a special military operation. Ukraine is a puppet of forces that want to destroy Russia and take away its historical lands. — Roman Starovoyt

There is nothing to comment on because Ukrainians are Russians. — Dmitry Medvedev

Zelenskyy signs decree on Russian territories historically inhabited by Ukrainians
^{— Tetiana Lozovenko · Ukrainska Pravda · Jan 22, 2024}

Russian Offensive Campaign Assessment, January 22, 2024
^{— Riley Bailey, Christina Harward, Nicole Wolkov, Grace Mappes, Karolina Hird, George Barros, Frederick W Kagan · ISW · Jan 22, 2024}

Russia continues to weaponize its position on the United Nations Security Council (UNSC) to propagate several long-standing Russian information operations.

Russian officials and information space actors are attempting to further rhetorically justify Russia’s invasion of Ukraine by misrepresenting a decree that Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky signed on January 22 concerning discrimination against ethnic Ukrainians in Russia. Zelensky’s decree does not establish any territorial demands upon Russia, as select Russian ultranationalists falsely claimed.

Russians and Ukrainians will live exactly like brothers and good neighbors — Sergey Lavrov

"It's the Kremlin's way or the highway." Some interviews/writings/speeches out of the Kremlin circle carry their authoritarian undercurrent. They seem to think (implicitly) that it's up to them to decide how "their subjects" (down to individuals) should live (perhaps up to government in general, according to them). With their self-entitlement, they extend that to the Ukrainians. If NATO-phobia led to the invasion, then what difference would grabbing Crimea + Donbas make?

:o Has that been confirmed? (cans)

EDIT

Questionable according to Ryan Mcbeth (Jan 23, 2024).
Not that Gaza is safe for children.

Unusual age distribution ...

Children make up nearly half of Gaza's population. Here's what it means for the war
^{— Linah Mohammad · NPR · Oct 19, 2023}

According to estimates for 2023, the number of Palestinians in Gaza aged 0 to 4 was 278,511. That year, more than half of Gaza's estimated 2.06 million inhabitants were below 20 years old. — Statista · Nov 21, 2023

, if it were to come to that (significant internal US instability/strife), then there'd be a wider impact as well. Authoritarian regimes would have a bit less to worry about (or to deter them), which, in turn, would come back to impact the US. So, strifers would invite this.

And Canada might build a border wall. :)

EDITED

Working? Better prepared now?

Virtual Hatred: How Russia Tried to Start a Race War in the United States
^{— William J Aceves · California Western School of Law · 2019}
Vladimir Putin’s plan to ‘tear the US apart’ during 2024 election exposed
^{— Charlie Bradley · Express · Dec 23, 2023}
Russia’s War on Woke
^{— Mikhail Zygar · Foreign Affairs · Jan 2, 2024}

Checking out on the highway, how many cars have just the driver, one person?
I'm guessing more than half, but things change all the time.
How many of the troubles can be put on the tragedy of the commons?

I still think Michelle Obama could be chosen at the convention, with Biden retiring. She would have my vote. — jgill

She comes through as "no-nonsense" personality-wize (if that means much). She's given no good indication of stepping up though, or what her programme would be, i.e. why to vote for her. I can see her as US president anyway.

, instead of posting a 33m:12s youtube by Campbell showing a talk by Bridgen, why not post whatever studies Bridgen was referring to? (There are better sources than either, in any case.)

Study and media summary

The Effects of Nonpharmaceutical Interventions on COVID-19 Cases, Hospitalizations, and Mortality: A Systematic Literature Review and Meta-analysis
^{— James A Peters, Mohsen Farhadloo · American Journal of Preventive Medicine · Jun 14, 2023}

Montreal university study describes COVID-19 sanitary measures as 'generally effective'
^{— Laurie Trottier · CBC · Jan 21, 2024}

Meeting with veterans of the Great Patriotic War, residents of besieged Leningrad and representatives of public patriotic associations
^{— The Kremlin · Jan 18, 2023}

And here, on the Leningrad Front, representatives of many European countries participated in the siege of Leningrad and committed crimes.

Due to a certain tolerance and in order not to spoil relations, not to spoil any background of our relations with many countries, we have never spoken about this before. But this was not only in Leningrad, on the Leningrad front and during the blockade, it was everywhere. Just look at the Blue Division. Here, in Leningrad, on the Leningrad Front during the blockade, there were participants from all countries - from many, in any case.

But when you talk about the need to preserve historical memory, I have already said that I fully and completely support this. We will do this at the state level, we will do it persistently, including so that, as I have already said, nothing like this happens again.

Meanwhile, someone is deliberately oblivious to all these facts. As you may have heard, perhaps quite recently at the United Nations we proposed for voting a document condemning the glorification of Nazism. After all, 50 countries voted against it. Who could be against recognizing the glorification of Nazism as criminal? Well, what is it? This is not just some kind of historical or political amnesia. This is all being transferred here again, in our time. For what? In order to maintain such a common front based on the current political situation, put pressure on our country. So in this sense, unfortunately, little changes. This means that we must consistently defend historical truth and do what you suggest. This is what we will do. — Vladimir Putin

Putin suddenly claims that representatives of "many European countries" took part in the Siege of Leningrad
^{— Alona Mazurenko · Ukrainska Pravda · Jan 18, 2023}
(Also, the Road of Life, Finland Station. Oh, and Sisu. :wink:)

Poland Is ‘Next’ After Russia Wins Ukraine War, Putin Ally Says (Aleksey Zhuravlyov)
^{— Carley Welch · The Messenger · Jan 14, 2024}
Russia to allocate funds for search of Soviet, Imperial Russian property abroad
^{— TASS · Jan 18, 2024}
Putin Orders Hunt for Property of Russian Empire, Soviet Union
^{— Bloomberg · Jan 19, 2024}

A treasure hunt for imperial gold? :sparkle: Poland + Finland + Estonia + Latvia + Lithuania? :) Retaliation for frozen assets (and possible seizures)? :fire:

Anyway, the Baltics, Moldova, Poland, have been (and are) looking toward Moscow with some...discomfort, and looking westward with some consolation. Ukraine likewise.

, maybe old Joe had coffee :sparkle: the other day...? :)

Biden Accedes to Tougher Immigration Policy to Deflect Criticism, Secure Ukraine Aid (Tarini Parti, Michelle Hackman · WSJ · Jan 18, 2024)

I'm admittedly still not seeing it, Clown because Mexican border...? Maybe it's just me.

Thank you, Mr Surge the Borders President — jgill

I'm wondering though, would this be sufficient to vote Clown?
From my spot, nope, but I'm no Denverite.

Various people/groups have considered what might come to pass in case the Kremlin prevails, you can check the credentials of those below yourself. (What "prevails" means here is sort of contextual to their writings.) I've just summarized very briefly and incompletely. Much of this has come up prior in the thread. Apologies for the overlaps, some of their writings already do.

What if Russia wins? (Simon Kuper · Financial Times · Dec 21, 2023)

• reprisals, pro-Ukraine = anti-Kremlin, Ukrainian defense = terrorism, removals, oppression (some such already documented, non-hypothetical)
• whatever part of Ukraine that remains Ukrainian would remain in the Kremlin's crosshairs
• a quarter of all wheat exports would be Kremlin-controlled
• others are taking notes (China, North Korea, Venezuela, Azerbaijan, Russians (far-right'ers in particular)), can find encouragement rather than discouragement — also see The West’s Inaction Over Ukraine Risks Dangerous Conclusions in Moscow (Dara Massicot · Carnegie · Dec 18, 2023)
• NATO, the EU and Ukraine-friends seen as discredited across the board, suiting the Kremlin well

War Against Ukraine: What if Russia Wins? (Nico Lange, Carlo Masala · GLOBSEC · Nov 28, 2023)

• extremists fascists populists gain all around, division (and polarization) outside Russia (some such non-hypothetical)
• Ukraine unstable for the longer haul, Ukrainian defense = terrorism, Ukrainian animosity increasing, purges, oppression (some such already observed, non-hypothetical)
• instability → increased risk of wider warring
• the Kremlin gains from emboldened Russian nationalism and neo-imperialism
• "new security order in Europe" and elsewhere, others are taking notes
• also check the "Zeitenwende" speech (Olaf Scholz · Bundestag · Feb 27, 2022)

The High Price of Losing Ukraine (Frederick W Kagan, Kateryna Stepanenko, Mitchell Belcher, Noel Mikkelsen, Thomas Bergeron · ISW · Dec 14, 2023)

• the Kremlin will have gained confidence and likely more domestic support, plus extra land and resources, to further their war path

The High Price of Losing Ukraine: Part 2 — The Military Threat and Beyond (Nataliya Bugayova · ISW · Dec 22, 2023)

• others are taking notes, Ukraine's friends can be manipulated
• post-Putin Kremlin will likely be further authoritarian, nationalistic
• increasing steps to extinguish Ukrainian (and Belarusian) identity
• higher risks to Russia's neighbors
• environment where moral relativism further resurges and values further erode
• normalization of the Kremlin way (pulling wider regress)

What a Russian Victory Would Mean for Ukraine (Adrian Karatnycky · Foreign Policy · Dec 19, 2023)

• others are taking notes, revisionists emboldened to forcefully change borders / run campaigns
• European division; to appease the Kremlin or to rearm?
• reprisals, pro-Ukraine = anti-Kremlin, Ukrainian defense = terrorism, removals, oppression, systematic cultural cleansing, directed indoctrination
• higher domestic support, higher risks to others

Some of the writings are worst-case here and there. Some expectations are easily reasonable. Not much mentioned about the Russian regress explicitly, this would eventually encompass assimilated land (which, on the other hand, was mentioned).

As an aside, for an alternative comedic dramatization of the Stalin → Khrushchev transition, check The Death of Stalin (2017).

, it's doubtful that the Kremlin would start a nuclear world war. Casting long shadows on the other hand, well, it's what they do these days, and apparently intend to keep up.

The Suwałki Gap has come up a few times, e.g. 2024Jan14, 2024Jan17.

By the way, NATO has been (is) tiptoeing around Russia. There aren't many that wants to go to war, it's just that it's already happening with ongoing destruction and killing.

Fuelling conspiracy theories :D

Putin says past U.S. elections were rigged
^{— Maxim Rodionov, Mark Trevelyan, Kevin Liffey · Reuters · Jan 16, 2024}

In the United States, previous elections were falsified through postal voting ... they bought ballots for $10, filled them out, and threw them into mailboxes without any supervision from observers, and that's it.

Pukin has Trump's back. Well, maybe not exactly.

Russian Offensive Campaign Assessment, January 10, 2024 (ISW Press)

Hmm Not optimistic ...

In this thread, I will explain why we are much closer to war with RU than most people realize and why our time window for rearmament is shorter than many believe. In my opinion, we have at best 2-3 years to re-establish deterrence vis-à-vis RU. [...] (— Fabian Hoffmann · Jan 14, 2024)

Germany preparing for Russia to start World War 3, leaked war plans reveal (— Chris Nesi · New York Post (and Bild) · Jan 15, 2024)


, I don't think you quite caught my drift with those couple comments. (Maybe try not to zoom in on individual verbiage while oddly forgetting the rest?)

Might be hard for you to acknowledge, but there's more to justification rationale motivation (hence cumulative explanation) than Machiavellian opportunism and glory and heroics. :D I guess thinking so is kind of telling. Impoverished. Except, makes better headlines. Worry not, yo' pal Putin stands up against unchecked imperialist expansionism of democracy. :up: "It's nefarious!"

Russia is building back its war machine. ^{(and other things by the way -me)} — boethius

Just imagine the horrors of peace. — boethius

:D

Any difference in response to the invasion (e.g. China, North and South Korea, Saudi Arabia, Iran, Turkey, Hungary, the US, the UK, France, Poland, Romania, Finland, Sweden, the Baltics, ...) might just suggest (non)antagonism, (not) standing up, (non)apathy, or whatever else.

^{(fyi, embedded links can give refs/context, can help memory too :wink:)}

The EU is the best we can make — ssu

Maybe if there's a common, increasing clear and present danger...? At least some parts of Europe (like Scandinavia / the Nordics, the Baltics) typically tend to cooperate reasonably well. Not that this by itself will do, though.

Though, it is important to stress that even though I believe we should have a credible deterrent, we should not combine an arms build-up with antagonism towards Russia. A deterrent should have as its purpose stable relations between east and west. — Tzeentch

In the real world, there's a bit more to it

The Kremlin's authoritarianism regress oppression opacity irredentism posturing polemic bombing is indeed threatening, and anyone valuing democracy transparency freedom can be expected to respond — Jan 1, 2024

There should be antagonism towards that. There was towards the Third Reich. Was and is towards apartheid. And this. ... What would you think not standing up does? (Would that be cowardice, complicity, assent, something else?)

I think that will wake up finally Europeans put effort in their own defense industry. — ssu

Yeah, someone will get scrambling. I recall Obama (and others) suggesting as much. Plus, European countries will have to cooperate in some ways. The Gremlin has already more or less brought Russia into a war economy + path.

These folk comprise a fair percentage of Clown'ers...

45% of Americans Say U.S. Should Be a ‘Christian Nation’
^{— Gregory A Smith, Michael Rotolo, Patricia Tevington · Pew Research Center · Oct 27, 2022}

But they hold differing opinions about what that phrase means, and two-thirds of U.S. adults say churches should keep out of politics

A Christian Nation? Understanding the Threat of Christian Nationalism to American Democracy and Culture
^{— Melissa Deckman et al · PRRI / Brookings · Feb 8, 2023}

The rising influence of Christian nationalism in some segments of American politics poses a major threat to the health of our democracy. Increasingly, the major battle lines of the culture war are being drawn between a right animated by a Christian nationalist worldview and Americans who embrace the country’s growing racial and religious diversity.

Christ, Country, and Conspiracies? Christian Nationalism, Biblical Literalism, and Belief in Conspiracy Theories
^{— Brooklyn Walker, Abigail Vegter · Journal for the Scientific Study of Religion · May 8, 2023}

Like many, we were deeply affected by the sharp divisions, fueled by conspiracy theories, that arose around COVID-19 and the 2020 presidential election.
We noted that conspiracy theories related to both COVID-19 and the Big Lie gained traction in religious communities that tended towards biblical literalism and Christian nationalism, leading us to wonder if either of these two aspects of American religion (biblical literalism and Christian nationalism) were related to a broader tendency for Americans to think in conspiratorial ways.
Christian nationalism links being Christian to being American. In the view of many Christian nationalists, this linkage is threatened by secularization and other social changes. Biblical literalism is the belief that each word in the Bible should be accepted as God’s word spoken directly to readers, not to be filtered through religious elites.
Using survey data, we find that the sense of a threatened nation inherent in Christian nationalism and the anti-elite tendencies in biblical literalism amplify conspiracy thinking, and that the two have especially strong effects when they occur together. We conclude that Christian nationalist and biblical literalist support of COVID-19 and the 2020 election conspiracy theories are not a one-off; Christian nationalists and biblical literalists are likely to buy into future conspiracy theories, too.
We were surprised at the effect sizes we observed. When occurring together, biblical literalism and Christian nationalism had a much stronger effect than well-established predictors of conspiracy thinking, like education. It’s also important not to lump all religious activity together — religious service attendance was consistently associated with less conspiracy thinking.
We measured conspiracy thinking by respondents’ agreement with eight different conspiracy theories. Social scientists have developed other measures of conspiracy thinking that don’t rely on respondents’ knowledge of specific conspiracy theories. Replicating our models with one of these more general measures would certainly strengthen the findings.
Also, we can’t stop with diagnosing the problem — we need to think deeply about how Christian nationalists and biblical literalists might become less susceptible to conspiracy thinking. — Brooklyn Walker · Jun 11, 2023

(emphases mine)

Those figures seem like more than an insignificant fringe (to me). Lowering the numbers to, say, 15-20% of (possibly incorrigible) US voters still give a fair bloc of Clown supporters. Not sure what to expect if the Clown doesn't make it to the ballots, I guess it depends on who does?

I guess the Swedes are (uncharacteristically) ramping up defense efforts, including in Latvia. :/

Interviewer: "You think that there could be war in Sweden? [with Russia]"
Micael Bydén: "Yes." — Jan 8, 2024

Pål Jonson:
At the same time, Russia has mobilised its economy and defence industry for war.
An armed attack against Sweden cannot be ruled out. War can also come to us. — Jan 8, 2024

Aleksey Pushkov:
Following the military leaders of the Czech Republic and Holland, another one is the same - the Minister of Civil Defense of Sweden called on citizens to be prepared for war. “There could be a war in Sweden,” Carl-Oskar Bohlin said at a press conference. He was joined by the Commander-in-Chief of the Swedish Armed Forces, Micael Bydén. He is also eager to move “from words to actions.” My hands are really itching.
Sweden is one of the first countries in Europe in terms of the level of anti-Russian paranoia. Russian submarines have been fishing there for many years, and for some it has become the main occupation in life. For many years they have been telling how Russia is supposedly “preparing to capture Gothenburg”, and other nonsense. Apparently, this is how they try to give Sweden a geopolitical importance that it does not have. Sometimes it seems that some Swedish military personnel, as well as journalists, are almost dreaming of war. Apparently they can’t calm down since the defeat at Poltava... — Jan 8, 2024

Pål Jonson:
I do not engage with Russia when they use various forms of disinformation.
Russia has put both its economy and its defense industry on a war footing, and of course they continue to pressure Ukraine. — Jan 9, 2024

Reacting to the Kremlin. Probably shouldn't be that surprising any longer.

Putin really wanted to reach a peaceful settlement with Ukraine — Tzeentch

Well, why wouldn't he want Crimea + Donbas "for free"? :)
That's exactly what his "peaceful settlement" would have been.
Grab (steal) → peace (official) → done (might have avoided some sanctions and whatever else too). :up:
Must be among the simplest + cheapest ways to grab land.

There's been a number of diplomatic efforts since Feb 2022 (including some grain export negotiations) + some polls.

, takes democrats internally + externally, people standing up, not forgetting. Easier said than done.

Well done :D

Inviolability, life support and protection: guarantees for Lukashenka after the presidency have been determined (in Belarusian)
^{— Radio Svaboda · Dec 23, 2023}
President of Belarus gives himself immunity from prosecution and limits potential challengers
^{— Yuras Karmanau · AP · Jan 4, 2024} — Jan 4, 2024

Belarus refuses to invite OSCE observers to monitor this year’s parliamentary election
^{— Yuras Karmanau · AP · Jan 8, 2024}

Belarus is a member of the OSCE, and members of its Office for Democratic Institutions and Human Rights have been the only international observers at Belarusian elections for decades.

“Belarus holds the election for itself first and foremost,” Karpenka said, adding that Belarusian authorities will invite observers from Russia and Central Asian nations.

Since 1995, all elections and referendums in Belarus have been deemed by the Office for Democratic Institutions and Human Rights of the OSCE as not conforming to the organization’s standards and being neither transparent nor fair. Meanwhile, observers from Russia and countries allied with Belarus view all the votes within the country as democratic.

I guess they bother at all ... for appearances, to appease certain sensibilities, like a ritual, ... Have to wonder what results genuine democratic elections (with free press and such) would give.

The UN does not advocate for a specific model of government but promotes democratic governance as a set of values and principles that should be followed for greater participation, equality, security and human development. Democracy provides an environment that respects human rights and fundamental freedoms, and in which the freely expressed will of people is exercised. People have a say in decisions and can hold decision-makers to account. Women and men have equal rights and all people are free from discrimination. — The UN

No cruel and unusual punishment, respect one's personal beliefs- whatever they may be as long as they are not harming others, due process and rights of representation, people should be able to peacefully protest and write their thoughts, things like this — schopenhauer1

I guess there are any number of characteristics, transparency, freedom, ... And non-characteristics, authoritarianism, oppression, ... There's no magic bullet. Involves ethics.

Who is to do do this "working with"? — Vera Mont

It takes democrats (I don't mean the US party :grin:). A democracy where the people have become infatuated with a would-be dictator is less likely to stay (as) democratic. Demagogues can democratically undo democracy. Academic critique by itself might not do. It takes people standing up for those things.

The United States and the Arab Spring: The Dynamics of Political Engineering

A worthwhile read. — Tzeentch

FYI, author Gamal M Selim, published Summer 2013:

Conclusion

The short-lived US democracy-promotion agenda following 9/11 did not result in any meaningful democratization in the Arab world. As the United States abandoned this agenda and did not incur any major risks as a result, it seemed content with its policy of endorsing the Arab autocrats. That explains the fact that the United States was surprised by the outbreak of mass uprisings in Tunisia and Egypt. The United States did not plan the Arab Spring as claimed by some analysts, as the local autocrats were doing everything possible to secure American and Israeli interests in the region.

Following the outbreak of the Arab Spring, the United States embarked upon a process of political engineering under which it was able to reverse a revolutionary trend which could have jeopardized American interests in the Arab world. Today, the revolutionaries who initiated the change did not assume the leading positions in dismantling the old authoritarian regimes and building new democratic ones. Ironically, elements of the old pro-American regimes assumed these tasks in Egypt and Yemen. For the first time, we have democratic projects designed and implemented by elements who were main actors in the old dictatorships. In the case of Libya, a complete reshuffling process took place where the revolutionary movements were marginalized and a new pro-American regime was installed, thus replacing the insubordinate, highly unpredictable regime of Qaddafi. In the case of Bahrain, the United States was able to suppress revolutionary changes through covert military intervention.

It is important to note, however, that these strategies did not resolve the main problems which produced the revolutionary discontent in the Arab world. Rather, they prolonged them and opened new horizons for further upheavals in the Arab world. Perhaps the most noticeable among these problems are (i) the continuity with the neo-liberal economic policies, which had created a tremendous gap between the rich and the poor unprecedented in recent Arab history, and (ii) the US full endorsement of Israeli policies in the region. These policies are bound to generate more anti-American resentment in the region and lead to more future surprises. In other words, the United States has not grasped yet the social and historical underpinnings of the Arab Spring. The United States may have won in the short-term; however, in the long-term, more violent developments are bound to occur.
— Gamal M Selim · Summer 2013

:D , I'm referring to the protesters.

, well, there might be responses to either. Say, do you think they were reasonable persons in protesting those causes in their situation?

Should one take the Kremlin's irredentist promotions seriously ...

• Putin: Russians, Ukrainians are ‘one people’
  ^{— AP · Jul 20, 2019}

I believe that Russians and Ukrainians are one people ... one nation, in fact. When these lands that are now the core of Ukraine joined Russia ... nobody thought of themselves as anything but Russians. [...] we can use this as our competitive advantage during some form of integration. — Vladimir Putin · Jun 19, 2019

• On the Historical Unity of Russians and Ukrainians
  ^{— Vladimir Putin · Jul 12, 2021}

• ‘Russification’ erodes Ukraine’s sovereignty in occupied Kherson
  ^{— Mehul Srivastava, Veronika Samborska · Financial Times · Aug 5, 2022}

this has included road signs exhorting Ukrainians to believe they are “One People . . . With Russia”

In this video from a liberated town in #Kharkiv region, east #Ukraine, Ukrainian soldiers removed a Russian propaganda poster saying “We are one people with Russia”. Only to reveal a poster with national poet Shevchenko’s verse “Fight and you will win”. — Alex Kokcharov · Sep 10, 2022

• ‘Never saw such hell': Russian soldiers in Ukraine call home
  ^{— Erika Kinetz, Solomiia Hera, Anna Pavlova · AP · Feb 24, 2023}

Russian soldiers had been told by Putin and others that they’d be welcomed by their brothers and sisters in Ukraine as liberators.

... then their impressive destruction and killing nonetheless tell a different story. Whether miscalculation, delusion, honest false belief, or something else, land grab fits the bill. The swift opaque referendums suggest the same. Land grab, influence, control, power, "Ukrainian brothers and sisters be dɐmnɘd".

Ukrainians and Russians as ‘One People’: An Ideologeme and its Genesis
^{— Pål Kolstø · Taylor and Francis · Aug 23, 2023}

What was your question or objection? — boagie

Again? https://thephilosophyforum.com/discussion/comment/868183

(peripheral to the conflict)

Well done :D

Inviolability, life support and protection: guarantees for Lukashenka after the presidency have been determined (in Belarusian)
^{— Radio Svaboda · Dec 23, 2023}
President of Belarus gives himself immunity from prosecution and limits potential challengers
^{— Yuras Karmanau · AP · Jan 4, 2024}

Give the Houthi some missiles to attack the HMS Diamond?

After Novocherkassk: A New Chapter in Naval Warfare
^{— BNN · Jan 2, 2024}
Putin is asked to order NATO attack - but not from Russia (en)
^{— Marcus Oscarsson · Jan 4, 2024}

, hmm well ok, no response to my response to your comments before. Should those comments of yours be disregarded then?

Cheering on BRICS as if they were Manchester United instead eh... :) I guess you could fire up a new thread.

, I've only lived in the US for ≈ half a year, it was in the past and mostly business related. Not that it matters. But you're still not answering the comments, you resumed the (known) script instead (almost verbatim). :shrug:

, did you ignore my comments on purpose? They were responses to two of your comments (this, this) plus about promoting authoritarian regimes (maybe you are genuinely anti-democracy).

^{(responding according to a known script gives the impression that your comments are somewhat prepackaged, somewhat indicative of knowingly spreading propaganda)}

How James Webb Changed Astronomy (Primal Space · Apr 23, 2023 · 9m:11s)

, right, this is US colonialism. :lol:

, known nuclear weaponry placements as of ≈ Oct 16, 2022. Belarus (bordering Latvia Lithuania Poland Ukraine Russia) has reportedly received nuclear weaponry from Russia since. :scream:

If Putin's Russia were to assimilate a fifth of Ukraine, then their NATO-phobic argument would continue to apply to the remaining four-fifths of Ukraine just the same. If Putin's Russia was to assimilate all of Ukraine, then Putin's logic could equally be raised vice versa by Moldova Poland Romania Hungary Slovakia (Oct 13, 2022; Nov 26, 2022), and hence the EU. Open-ended, perpetual. — Sep 17, 2023

Keep up promoting authoritarian regimes (and reciting their propaganda). ;)


Hmm... Not wasting any time...

Mariupol City Council

Videos of Putin and the blockade of Leningrad: what Mariupol children will be taught during the occupation

The occupiers systematically continue to instill their ideology in the children of Mariupol. In schools, they hold "Conversations about the important", murderers are called "heroes", and Russian textbooks are brought to the libraries of educational institutions.

The so-called "Ministry of Education and Science of the Donetsk People's Republic" has already issued a plan of "educational measures" for 2024. They plan to "educate" children by showing video recordings of meetings between the Russian dictator and international criminal Putin with students.

They also plan to tell the students about the liberation of the besieged Leningrad from the fascists. However, they forget to tell about the blockade of Mariupol, which the Russians carried out in the spring of 2022.

Attempts to distort history and reality run into the memory of the people of Mariupol, who personally know who and what was done to their city for almost three months. The truth will surely win!
— Mariupol City Council · Jan 2, 2024

The present war started around Feb 27, 2014 when the Kremlin initiated grabbing Crimea; hardly a shot was fired. A direct pretext ("neither evil nor ignorant") was:

Protesters opposed what they saw as widespread government corruption and abuse of power, the influence of oligarchs, police brutality, and human rights violations.^(29)(30) Repressive anti-protest laws fuelled further anger.⁽²⁹⁾ — Revolution of Dignity (Wikipedia)

As mentioned in the parallel thread (now moved here), part of these efforts were about shedding the shackles of the dominant (regressing) northern neighbor, whom you'll notice have some of those same problems the Euromaidan protests were about. Protests/assembly have more or less been stomped out by the Kremlin. The Ukrainians are trying while being bombed. The Kremlin orders the bombing and their trying is on another path. (Pick your poison?)



Observed, documented. The supposed dire threat to Russia is to the Kremlin's (authoritarian) control/influence, not to democracy transparency freedom, not to Russian farmers. Sauli Niinistö mentioned some implications in his New Year's speech, which don't really look good.

Kicking off 2024, Sauli Niinistö and Oleksiy Danilov commented on the Ukrainian situation. As you'd expect, the outgoing Finnish president was measured and non-inflammatory (unless you're Putin perhaps), the head of the Ukrainian National Security and Defense less so. Their messages overlap, with some concerning (albeit not new) implications:

In Ukraine, the front has been almost stationary for a long time, but the war is in constant motion. It is fought on battlefields where every day claims its victims. The civilian population is not protected either.

I believe that it is not so much due to fatigue or lack of will. A more serious theme is ensuring the ability to help in the long term, sufficient resources. Europe must wake up.

Investing in weapons production is not necessary just to be able to provide the help that is needed. It is needed to ensure that Europe is strong, not for war, but for peace.

Russia is never as strong as it appears to be, and never as weak as it appears to be. Russia's intention to defeat Ukraine in a few weeks failed, as the bravery of the Ukrainians overcame the onslaught.
— Sauli Niinistö · Jan 1, 2024

Only the systematic, consistent and methodical destruction of putin's fascist formation is the only guarantee of security for Ukraine and the world, and the absence of a missile threat to peaceful cities. Give Ukraine weapons, and we will bury this piece of...
We have fought and will continue to fight, no matter how many missiles are flying in our sky. There is no force that can stop us in our fight to revenge all 514 murdered Ukrainian children, fallen defenders, and every innocent Ukrainian soul tortured.
We will pay off a hundredfold!
We thank the defenders of the Ukrainian sky and rescuers, doctors and power engineers, everyone who has stood up to russian terrorist attacks! — Oleksiy Danilov · Jan 2, 2024

The Kremlin's ongoing moves have created much animosity on the ground.

We know that there is no color or sound in the real world, it is [...] — boagie

Hmm... Are you saying that our experiences are not part of the real world? Sure, they might be existentially mind-dependent, yet aren't (also) minds part of the world? :chin:

The West wasn't willing to stick its neck out for Ukraine when — Tzeentch

neither the US nor Europe is willing to stick their neck out — Tzeentch

Well, then no one was. :shrug: China, North and South Korea, Saudi Arabia, Iran, Turkey, ...

the NordStream bombings which were obviously planned (and probably carried out) by the US — Tzeentch

... in your opinion (again)?