So you’re pro life and the state deciding wether or not women are allowed to abort a pregnancy?

I am opposed to abortion but do not think the state should decide.

Fetus’ are human beings in their earliest stages of life. We all used to be one. And we accept that there may be a conflict of rights between a person in its earliest stages and post birth. It certainly is a problem and an argument worth having. What pronouns we use might not be as important a topic.

What the hell are you implying? You think that it's better that something like slavery is abolished ONLY AFTER A VICIOUS BLOODY CIVIL WAR?

I think it's far better when reforms can be done WITHOUT violence, without people getting killed, without extremist delusional and vitriolic opposite views taking over political discourse... and oh wait, that has been possible in many countries.

No, that’s not what I’m “implying”. No need to reach for things I never said.

Wrong. It's not.

Wrong, it is. Opposition and exclusion occur in politics all the time. Only an open conflict of ideas and principles can produce any clarity, especially in a two-party system. Again, compromise cannot exist on some issues, and that’s why people like MLK reviled the moderate.

My results suggested “a slight automatic preference for African Americans over European Americans”. Shouldn’t implicit bias force me to unknowingly favor my own category over another?

In politics, polarization (or polarisation) refers to the divergence of political attitudes to ideological extremes. Think of it as views and attitudes going to the opposite polar extremes without no middle ground.

So what's the problem?

The problem is polarization doesn’t necessarily beget, nor is it a one-to-one ratio with, violence. As you tried to show, a polarizing issue such as slavery can lead to a relatively bloodless repudiation of unjust treatment of other human beings (though we know that’s not the full story). But whether there is violence or not, we are so much the better for polarization in the cases of slavery, civil rights, because one side lost that argument. MLK, the abolitionists, were labelled extremist. They were right. Their opponents and the compromisers were wrong.

So NOS4A2, you think that political views becoming more extreme, more apart, will help the representative democracy to function better?

No, ssu, I’m saying polarization is a natural feature of democracy, and can address injustices. There is no compromise when it comes to issues such as slavery and civil rights.

Since their Civil War, the English have been able to solve the problems in their society without large scale violence. Ok, there's Ireland and some colonies that were problematic, but otherwise...

The leader of the Republican Commonwealth still got a statue in the monarchy:

I don’t understand polarization to mean violence. Maybe there is something lost in translation here.

Funny, coming from someone who so fervently supports a man who has a habit of circumventing Congress whenever they become inconvenient.

Lamenting a divided government from a man who fervently hates his own president. Funny.

So you're a progressive now?

The more divided a government is the more ineffectual it can be, and who benefits from an ineffectual government? Some must, perhaps your employer?

No I’m not a progressive.

Politics isn’t about creating some sort of uni-party, or else you might prefer the politics of North Korea, which is about as unified as can be. Politics is about division.

Enjoy Canada for all what it gives you, NOS4A2. :up:

Besides nature, it’s given me a bloated government, institutional identity politics and high taxes.

Let's see how well the centrist / right-wing duopoly can answer to Americans in the future.

Far better than a minority government who has to wheel and deal with losing parties who have somehow achieved power.

Abolishing slavery in the UK: 0 deaths.
Abolishing slavery in the US: perhaps 600 000 - 1 000 000 dead.

Right, I’m sure there was zero polarization on the issue in the UK.

I remember the feds made Ferguson a no-fly zone during the riots because they didn’t want media to film the violence. Out of sight out of mind.

I take the view of Popper that the two-party system is the superior one. I don’t see it as a monster. I see it as a boon.

And I believe polarization is an important aspect of a country’s progression and politics. The polarization surrounding civil rights, slavery, war has amounted to a better future for all.

The other week Nancy Pelosi said

“ We take an oath to protect and defend the Constitution from all enemies, foreign and domestic. And, sadly, the domestic enemies to our voting system and honoring our Constitution are right at 1600 Pennsylvania Avenue with their allies in the Congress of the United States”.

She continued: “ They’re doing everything they can [to] suppress the vote with their actions, scare people, intimidate by saying law enforcement will be there, diminish the role of the postal system in all of this. It’s really actually shameful. Enemies of the state.”

She’s the speaker of house and she called the Trump administration “domestic enemies” and “enemies of the state”.

Biden called Trump an existential threat to America.

Kamala Harris said the “protests” won’t stop.



This is, according to popular opinion, an incitement to violence. So in the spirit of politics I am glad Trump has decided to flip it on them.

You do realize that one can know the biological shortcomings of race as a purported biological category, yet still proceed to meaningfully categorize a group of individuals based upon skin color, and continue doing so without ever devaluing them based upon skin color...

Right?

You can superficially categorize people, sure, but here we are applying zero-sum thinking to outmoded taxonomies. Perverted racialist, and I would argue white supremacist, thinking is occurring here.

But will the Democrats put the demonstrators in charge of every lever of power in the U.S. Government?
Will the Democrats defund Police Departments all across America?
Will they pass federal legislation to reduce law enforcement nationwide?
Will they make every city look like Democrat-run Portland, Oregon?

Do you genuinely think that a Biden administration will do all those things once in power?

I try not to make a habit of predicting the future, but no, I do not believe that. Then again Biden’s political triangulation, his wind-sock approach to politics, hints that he’ll only do what keeps him in power, even if that means satiating the desires of the radical wing of his party.

An AR-15 is a civilian rifle.

Video and images show he was there to protect businesses, clean up the mess, and to offer medical attention. He worked as a lifeguard in Kenosha the day before. Only when the teenager was violently attacked by grown men, one of them holding a pistol, did he unleash fury.

Politics has always been about division in my books.

I’m not sure Trump’s comments are so outrageous, especially given the unrest, violence and destruction of property occurring right now. No amount of hand waving can make that disappear. It is happening. It exists.

I think the Democrat’s deserve Trump’s shade. They’ve reviled him, obstructed him, and spread hatred about him at almost every step of his presidency. But my point isn’t that one politician or another causes division. My point is that a majority of people inform themselves through the bits and pieces offered to us by an unethical, activist media, and not from politicians. This is the source of your division.

As for the tragic shooting in Kenosha, I think it was self-defence. A man rushed him, went for his gun, but he protected himself. A mob chased him, tried to beat him, came at him with a gun, and they payed for it dearly. This is how easily things escalate when you are given free reign to destroy communities and the properties of innocent people.

I have black loved ones, asian loved ones, and white loved ones, but according to that definition of "racist", I am racist.

You’re safe to use adjectives to describe human beings. But races are a taxonomy. So when we start to classify them as members in this taxonomy, we’ve employed the racialist worldview to aid in our judgement of human beings. Once we drop the racialist worldview from our thinking we should have no problem using better foundations.

Myself being an in-betweener, voting rightish in scandinavian elections aka probably democrat in the US i still com from a working class background. My father made the journey to middle class. Me and my brother are the first ones going to university. Now I have come in contact with people from wealthy academical homes and surprisingly many lean to the left. Same when you read about eg Sartre. Also from a profoundly bourgeoisie home, but becomes a socialist.

In the same family you can see entrepreneurs and activists. What makes people from wealthy, academical background lean left? Very few people in my humble-house background in a not so good suburb became socialists.

Perhaps they were weened too late. Less responsibility. Less risk. It’s no strange wonder that the coddled grow up to prefer the same treatment when they get older. The “cradle-to-the-grave” concept is no joke.

I know that if rioters burned my business to the ground I would be happy if the leader of our country came in support. I can’t think of any leader having the balls to do so.

From my own vantage point, I have rarely come across people who listen to what the president says and coming to their own conclusions, instead preferring to be informed by certain media outlets, political PACS and even celebrities. This is how mass hysteria begins. So it’s disconcerting when people say the president divides while at the same time relying on yellow journalism to inform them what to think. We know that many journalists have eschewed the ethics of their craft in favor of activism, and I think we are viewing the result.

Trump offered federal support, only to be denied. Days after Wheeler rebuked the president’s offer a protester is killed. Once they asked for federal support in Wisconsin, and received it, the riots subsided. Imagine that.

The kid clearly defended himself when a convicted pedophile rushed him and tried to grab his gun. He disarmed another man, quite literally, who ran at him with a pistol, and then he slayed another who tried to hit him with a skateboard. It turns out if you attack a man with a gun you get shot.

It will get more ugly. But to blame Trump for the division, when most if not all of the rioters inform themselves through a hostile media, seems to me to be short-sighted and to attribute omnipotent power to one man. These are democrat-run cities now burned to the ground and I think the voters are now realizing this.

Blaming others for that which you are guilty. I’m not surprised.

You just cry “fascism” out of one side of the mouth and then pretend you’re not calling anyone a fascist out the other. So fake.

Why the scare quotes? And is Trump stupid for planning to visit Kenosha tomorrow?

It’s like calling the shooter, the rioters, Bernie supporters. It may be true, but it’s malinformation. The groups involved have names.

No, I think it’s wise for the president to show support to the victims of riots, and I think it’s a good move politically.

No, I label rioters as “rioters”. You call Americans “fascists” and, like a ghoul, cry foul when your incitement comes home to roost.

“I am not sad that a f–king fascist died tonight,” a woman shouts into a megaphone at a BLM-Antifa gathering after a man was shot dead nearby.

“He was a f–king Nazi. Our community held its own and took out the trash.”

BLM Activists Celebrated as Trump supporter killed

A possible suspect in the murder, a 48 year old self-avowed Antifa reprobate, is under investigation for the fatal shooting.

On June 16, he wrote, “Every Revolution needs people that are willing and ready to fight. There are so many of us protesters that are just protesting without a clue of where that will lead. That’s just the beginning that’s that where the fight starts. If that’s as far as you can take it thank you for your participation but please stand aside and support the ones that are willing to fight. I am 100 % ANTIFA all the way! I am willing to fight for my brothers and sisters! ... We do not want violence but we will not run from it either! ... Today’s protesters and antifa are my brothers in arms.”

https://www.oregonlive.com/crime/2020/08/man-under-investigation-in-fatal-shooting-after-pro-trump-rally-allegedly-took-loaded-gun-to-earlier-portland-protest.html

In my opinion the “Trump supporters” were stupid to go to Portland. Let them stew in their own pestilence for all to see.

Someone walks up to a protester, a so-called Trump supporter, executes him, and rather than condemn the act we condemn the partisanship. Brains rotting from the inside out.

Someone executed a “Blue lives matter” protester in Portland.

The whisteblower — whose identity, rap sheet and long history working as a consultant to various campaigns were confirmed by The Post — says he not only changed ballots himself over the years, but led teams of fraudsters and mentored at least 20 operatives in New Jersey, New York and Pennsylvania — a critical 2020 swing state.

Confessions of a voter fraud: I was a master at fixing mail-in ballots

https://nypost.com/2020/08/29/political-insider-explains-voter-fraud-with-mail-in-ballots/

I‘be been missIng your insight as of late, friend.

There was no mob in the video. Just a girl saying mean words. And you're here crying about "intimidation by a mob" and "harassment" and "my poor bum it hurts so much". You've proven my point: rightwingers can dish it out, but can't take it without throwing a tantrum and crying victim.

There are more videos. I’m not right wing either.

Did I "blame the victims"? Not at all. I didn't blame the couple in the video: I said nothing that even implied as much. I just pointed out the usual double-standard, the amusing and persistent hypocrisy of rightwingers delight at accusing other people (i.e. on the left) of being "snowflakes" who get "triggered" and need their "safe spaces"... but then turn around and throw a crybaby tantrum when someone says some naughty words to them. As with poor Dotard himself, you can dish it out, but not take it (not without melting down at any rate). And similarly with free speech and "cancel-culture" (and probably plenty of other things besides): for all your whining, you're as guilty as anyone else and in many cases quite a bit more so.

I mean, I understand that you don't put any stock in things like basic logical consistency, but it would help your credibility if you would at least attempt to disguise the double-standard.

Though there might be right-wing mobs out there swarming and harassing people, I am personally not aware of any who suggest or condone doing so, especially not Trump and certainly not myself. So your claims of hypocrisy are nonsense.

It’s called harassment and you blame the victims. I’m sure you do so without hypocrisy.

Being threatened by a mob is a little different than feeling threatened by tweets and ideas.

q

How can you tell if someone who extremely dislikes the concept of white privilege is doing so for system justification/self palliative reasons or not? I'm not saying don't be critical of it, I'm saying that the very idea inspires so much vitriol in some people and pages and pages of text. Often, after the pages and pages the person who says they hate the concept of white privilege actually agrees with all of the substantive content it criticises, but feels either personally attacked by it or that (generic white person) will be turned off by it. Projecting personal discomfort onto the absent other, maybe. Regardless, they dislike the present because of the package. Complicity should never feel comfortable, and self flagellating doesn't make any difference.

I've got a personal wager that people who get super animated about it being a hard sell to some white people to begin with more often than not are duckspeaking system justification in an academic dialect. But that's neither here not there I suppose.

I think the vitriol stems from “white privilege” being a sweeping and unjust generalization upon people with lighter skin colors, in this case the projections of Peggy McIntosh upon an amorphous, abstract group of people rather than a thoughtful analysis of flesh and blood individuals. I can imagine other such generalizations made about other skin colors, and I think it is safe to say there would be some warranted vitriol, and rightly so.

For me it’s a hard sell because it’s a racialist and racist concept, and not much more than that.

Of course belligerent mobs threaten RNC attendees as they leave the event.

This is persecution. Welcome to the United States of Portland.

I’m trying to argue that it isn’t as nefarious as you make it out to be. Photos of Obama era “children in cages” were shown to great effect in order to malign the Trump administration’s reasoning, which apparently laid absent from your thought.

His brand of hard does. I recall reading that that caging children was his idea (I'll accept correction on this), and that they, presumably including him, were surprised that anyone noticed or made an issue of it(!!!).

The facilities with “cages” were set up during Obama’s term. Rather it’s the “zero tolerance” policy that led to family separation, because it sent illegals to jail while being prosecuted, thereby separating them from their children (we don’t send children to jail with their parents).

I would say I shared this concern, but have been under the understanding that there were indications Miller, and others, likely Bannon, had exacerbated/exploited identity politics as you appear concerned with.


In any case, what strikes me as odd is the concern with racism qua "the path of Biden's identity politics" but not a concern with any of the indications of racism we already have with varying circles of Trump supporters.

I would agree that the American identity has been exploited, but that identity is welcome to all races and creeds.

As for racism in varying circles of Trump supporters, I cannot find any connection, ideological or otherwise, to Trump’s agenda, and I think that’s the reason many of the racist activist types are disillusioned with Trump. In the end they’ve been duped by the Dems and their media wing.