Comments

  • Is the real world fair and just?
    Well, Spinoza's Natura Naturata would be cover both the 'vacuum' and the 'atoms', the union of them (also, according to him, the attributes are independent from each other, so emergentism is not compatible with Spinoza). — boundless
    Of course this is so ... sub specie aeternitatis.

    For instance, if a compatibilist argues that my choices are 'free' because they do not have 'external' causes but they are still deterministic, I fail to see how this can be true 'freedom ...
    If not conditionally "deterministic" (i.e. constrained by your (my) nonlinear dynamic, ecology-nested, embodied cognition), then what makes any "choices" yours (mine)?
  • Evidence of Consciousness Surviving the Body
    I'm trying to point out that a mind behind the universe is the best explanation ... — Sam26
    What exactly is explained by "a mind behind the universe"?
  • How 'Surreal' Are Ideas?
    Despite materialism and postmodern deconstruction, NeoPlatonism is making a resurgence. What is the significance of this? — Jack Cummins
    Secular mysticism redux.

    What is language and its connections to symbolic forms of interpretation?
    The latter are messages – signal-to-noise ratios – and the former is a medium.

    Are ideas mind-dependent, subjective, objective or intersubjective
    constructs in human semantics?
    Yes.
  • US Election 2024 (All general discussion)
    Today in Trumpenfreude ...
    NASDAQ (DJT) :rofl:

    26March24 – $57.99 per share
    (NASDAQ 16,315.70)

    15April24 – $26.61 per share :down:
    (NASDAQ 15,885.02)     — 180 Proof
    16August24 – $23.06 per share :down:
    (NASDAQ 17,631.72) :up:

    Loser The Clown's pump-n-dump scam is down 40% in five months. Not bad for an OG grifter who even 3x BANKRUPTED A CASINO. :clap:

    *

    Biden-Harris DIJA "Boom Market":
    6Nov20 – $28,325.53
    16Aug24 – $40,659.76 :up:

    Roevember is coming! :victory: :cool:
  • Is A Utopian Society Possible ?
    "Those who lack the courage will always find a philosophy to justify it." ~Albert Camus

    The Nietzschean emphasis ... — schopenhauer1
    Stop with the strawman, schop. My counter argument emphasizes the following
    As daoists, epicureans, pyrrhonists, spinozists, absurdists et al know first-hand: humor & creativity, friendship & compassion also provide "relief" during the often tedious intervals between "sleep and death". — 180 Proof
    as I've pointed out in my previous post which your (& T. Ligotti's) special pleading evades. To wit:
    there are philosophies of defiance ("unselfing") such as those mentioned above contrary to sophistries of denial ("suicide") like fideism, anti-natalism or nihilism. :mask: — 180 Proof

    https://thephilosophyforum.com/discussion/comment/925895

    Creating a false narrative cannot solve the problem of suffering. — schopenhauer1
    Yeah, like e.g. "anti-natalism" (i.e. destroying the village (h. sapiens) in order to save the village (h. sapiens)) – I agree, schop. After all, "suffering" isn't a "problem to solve" but rather an exigent signal to adapt one's (our) way of life to reality by preventing foreseeable and reducing imminent disvalue/s. :fire:
  • Is the real world fair and just?
    Still my question is: how can we have some degree of autonomy if we are not separate from the Whole? — boundless
    I.e. if we are more like droplets of spray from a wave of the ocean (or rays of sunlight from the sun) than e.g. passengers riding on a moving train...

    Even the 'co-determination' of some actualities ... something like Tolkien's concept of subcreation, in a sense.
    For Spinoza, no doubt an "inadequate idea" (i.e. imaginary, illusory) sub specie aeternitatis.

    it is Deistic ... specifically PanEnDeistic.

    Would Spinoza disagree?     — Gnomon
    Yes, because sub species aeternitatis Spinoza's immanent-monist (unbounded, self-organizing vacuum field-like) metaphysics is acosmist and your "pan-en-deistic" whatever, Gnomon, implies an unparsimonious, transcendent-dualist (Pythagorean / Neoplatonist / Leibnizean / panpsychist monadic-like) metaphysics.

    Fwiw, my view is that sub specie durationis (e.g. Husserl's "natural attitude") acosmism seems cogently pandeistic (or consistent with classical atomism). :fire:
  • Evidence of Consciousness Surviving the Body
    ↪Wayfarer
    Of course you do.
  • Is A Utopian Society Possible ?
    Masking the reality with heroism — schopenhauer1
    Neither claiming nor implying such, how does "heroism" equate to "masking the reality" when a hero is usually someone who defies reality, fatally risking herself, rather than someone who denies reality? :chin:

    Besides, I don't see what's wrong with, or dishonest about, cultivating any "coping mechanism" that actually reduces fear and harm more than it increases them.

    At the end of the day, there is no relief, only sleep and death. Everything else is MALIGNANTLY USELESS...
    — schopenhauer1

    As daoists, epicureans, pyrrhonists, spinozists, absurdists et al know first-hand: humor & creativity, friendship & compassion also provide "relief" during the often tedious intervals between "sleep and death".     — 180 Proof
    No "existential gaslighting" or "performative resiliance" – the fact is, schop, there are philosophies of defiance ("unselfing") such as those mentioned above contrary to sophistries of denial ("suicide") like fideism, anti-natalism or nihilism. :mask:
  • Is A Utopian Society Possible ?
    Yes. Do you think this requires a type of courage? — Tom Storm
    Absolutely. The indispensible virtue. With courage, cheerful-defiant pessimism (e.g. Nietzsche); without courage, resentful-defeatist pessimism (e.g. Schopenhauer) – singing the blues :death: :flower: or crippling anxiety :cry: :sad: , respectively.
  • Is A Utopian Society Possible ?
    At the end of the day, there is no relief, only sleep and death. Everything else is MALIGNANTLY USELESS ... — schopenhauer1
    As daoists, epicureans, pyrrhonists, spinozists, absurdists et al know first-hand: humor & creativity, friendship & compassion also provide "relief" during the often tedious intervals between "sleep and death".

    ↪Tarskian
    However you wish to interpret the relationship of the Torah & Quran, they are clearly not "the oldest records of moral rules" as you've claimed (and also they are subsequent derivatives from pre-Mosaic/non-divine sources).
  • The Sciences Vs The Humanities
    Science does require creativity as much as art. — I like sushi
    :up:
  • Evidence of Consciousness Surviving the Body
    Consciousness surviving the body? If you are dualist, perhaps. — Manuel
    :up:
  • US Election 2024 (All general discussion)
    Election 2024 is again a basic IQ test: neoliberals (pols) versus neofascists (cons)? Hint: you don't have to be antifa, BLM, pro-woman, etc to demonstrate that you're intelligent (i.e. not a bleach-swilling, MAGA-moron, weirdo). :mask:

    Roevember is coming! :fire:
  • The Sciences Vs The Humanities
    ↪ucarr
    Yes, a difference in levels and objects of analyses, therefore different representations (just as e.g. a topological map & a road map can be different (complementary) descriptions.of the same terrain).
  • Evidence of Consciousness Surviving the Body
    ↪Philosophim
    ↪Sam26
    Also contra "intelligent design" (i.e. creationism), consider the dysteleological argument:

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Argument_from_poor_design

    In sum: both the universe in general and organic life in particular appear defective, or suboptimal, just as it's most reasonable to expect it to be according to evident and explicable, nonintelligent processes of (e.g.) nucleogenesis and biological evolution (especially given that 99.99% of baryonic matter – the observable universe that has been expanding for at least 13.8 billion years from a planck radius of random (i.e. non-causal, ergo not "created / designed") fluctuations – is vacuum radiation inimical to organic/human life (in a universe evidently "fine-tuned" for lifelessness).
  • The Sciences Vs The Humanities
    ↪ucarr
    Afaik, the sciences are a subset of the humanities – interpretative-representational discourses explicating aspects of the human condition – which seek, via defeasible reasoning, testable answers to empirical questions.
  • US Election 2024 (All general discussion)
    It's just weird. — Benkei
    :smirk:
  • Is A Utopian Society Possible ?
    You can find the oldest record of moral rules in the Torah and the Quran. — Tarskian
    Not so. Consider ...

    • Code of Ani c2500 BCE
    • Code of Ur-Nammu c2100 BCE
    • Code of Hammurabi c1760 BCE
    • Law of Moses (Torah) c1000 BCE
    • Analects of Kongzi 475 BCE
    • Twelve Tables of Roman Law 451 BCE
    • Law of Manu 200 BCE
    • Code of Justinian 529 CE
    • Tang Code of China 624 CE
    • Sharia (Quran) 632 CE
  • Is A Utopian Society Possible ?
    Is A Utopian Society Possible? — kindred
    IFF, imo, it's a post-scarcity, philanthropic AGI-managed (automated), sprawl-free municipality (arcology) ... ideally, an O'Neill/McKendree cylinder (asteroid terrarium). :nerd:
  • Donald Trump (All General Trump Conversations Here)
    So then I'm wondering what will the Trump cult morph into next? — Benkei
    Probably rabid domestic terrorists ...
  • Is A Utopian Society Possible ?
    (I believe)

    The belief is all I have.

    I am only really speaking of order and chaos as emotions ...

    I would say that COMMON sense shows this is very true. 

    My belief is that the entire universe has as a rule ...

    ... the seemingly ephemeral 'thoughts and prayers' all have an effect. 

    ... my model of belief suggests ...     — Chet Hawkins
    You're entitled to "believe" whatever you like but these "beliefs" are not supported by either corroborable evidence or valid arguments. You're merely rationalizing, not reasoning – preaching, not philosophizing. We don't even disagree, Chet; we're playing different games, talking past one another.

    the philosophical difference between 'direction' and 'goal' is rather disingenuous ... The terms are effectively synonymous.
    No they aren't. For example, dying is not life's goal, only life's direction; thus, it's incoherent (or "disingenuous") to conflate them.
  • Is A Utopian Society Possible ?
    ↪Chet Hawkins
    Order is dissipative and thereby a phase-transition of disorder (i.e. chaos). Re: entropy. Also, the universe has a direction (i.e. thermal/cosmic equilibrium aka "balance"), not a "goal"; and "perfection" is not a/the "moral goal" but the dream of "the Good" that paralyzes – excuses failure at – actually doing good (i.e. preventing and reducing disvalues as much as practically possible aka "negative consequentialism"). 'Utopias' are mostly just thought-experiments (i.e. counterfactual what-ifs, forecasts, crises, etc) used to critique real world social systems in order to provoke public reasoning about alternatives and reforms which might prevent or reduce structural disvalues (e.g. injustices, inequities). Btw, "intention", like mere "thoughts & prayers", is mostly solipsistic (pace Kan't) and contra (Peircean-Deweyan) pragmatism.
  • Is A Utopian Society Possible ?
    ↪Tarskian
    My point is that philosophy as a way of life (P. Hadot) is a rational-reflective form of "spirituality" (i.e. daily ego/self-transparency to oneself) and not, as you suggest narrowly, necessarily non-spiritual. True, philosophy is not 'helpful' to everyone or as accessible to the masses as non-rational (e.g. cultic or dogmatic) forms of "spirituality"; unlike religions, however, philosophy has been indispensible for thinkers and poets, teachers and judges in every complex society.
  • The Happiness of All Mankind
    What are your thoughts on the matter? — Shawn
    Stalinism & Maoism, like Nazism/Fascism, were totalitarian theocratic-gangster systems wherein dehumanizing means undermined, or eliminated, humanizing ends. Nothing to do with indigenous communisms (or libertarian socialism).
  • Evidence of Consciousness Surviving the Body
    The obvious implication of my argument is that there’s intelligence (consciousness or mind) behind the universe ... — Sam26
    Parsimony be damned, the principle of explosion (& effect of other "obvious" fallacies) always ... works in mysterious ways. :pray:

    If our [my] goal is to win an argument at all costs because we don’t like a particular [valid, scary] conclusion, then we are [I'm] not doing good philosophy ... especially if our [the] goal is truth.
    Confession is good for the soul, they say; don't you feel better now, Sam? :smirk:
  • Donald Trump (All General Trump Conversations Here)
    ↪praxis
    :sweat:

    ↪Mikie
    :up:
  • Evidence of Consciousness Surviving the Body
    And I've long argued that if an individual life is understood as part of a continuum extending before physical birth that has consequences beyond physical death, that this can provide a framework within which the life beyond is at least conceivable.
    — Wayfarer

    Okay, so make the case – a sound argument – for this alleged "continuum" ... Once the facts of the matter are established, then we can interpret their philosophical ramifications (and, maybe, derive cogent, metaphysical conclusions). :chin:     — 180 Proof
    No doubt, @Wayfarer, you accidently missed this request.
  • Is A Utopian Society Possible ?
    Spirituality is a non-rational tool — Tarskian
    More precisely, "spirituality" is a stance or disposition towards daily experience (like e.g. creativity) and not merely a means-to-ends "tool".

    ... to stimulate survival instinct ...
    Not so. "Survival instinct" is autonomic (like e.g. respiration) and therefore does need to be extrinsically "stimulated".

    ... by connecting to something that is greater than ourselves and which is divine in nature ....
    I.e. metaphysics (i.e. categorical / absolute ideas) that is expressed via rational (inferential, dialectical) and/or non-rational (analogical, mythical) discursive practices.

    Philosophy is not meant to do that and therefore cannot replace that.
    Really? Tell that to Daoists, Confucists, Vedantists, Pythagoreans, Epicureans, Stoics, Neoplatonists, Aristotleans, Spinozists et al ... Each of these philosophies are manifest "spiritual" ways of life.

    Unlike spirituality, philosophy is not meant to assist with mental healthcare.
    This may be true of modern academic philosophy (e.g. Anglo-American analytical philosophy, Viennese logical positivism, Parisian post/structuralism, etc) but not true of contemporary variants on and applications of way of life philosophies (some of which I've already mentioned) such as (e.g.) rational emotive hehavioral therapy, cognitive behavioral therapy, existential therapy, logotherapy, clinical philosophy, etc.

    https://www.newyorker.com/culture/annals-of-inquiry/when-philosophers-become-therapists
  • Evidence of Consciousness Surviving the Body
    ↪AmadeusD
    If you prefer; for lucidity's sake I prefer unknown to the loaded, anti-scientific term "miracle".
  • Personal Identity and the Abyss
    ↪Thales
    "Personal identity" is an illusion (i.e. not what it seems – because biological & psychological changes are transparent to the subject) of self-continuity, or embodied cognition (primarily memory). Also, see Ship of Theseus / Neurath's Boat.

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ship_of_Theseus

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neurath%27s_boat
  • Evidence of Consciousness Surviving the Body
    ↪AmadeusD
    Okay if not "god", then what do you mean by "free miracle"?
  • Reasons for believing in the permanence of the soul?
    ↪Fooloso4
    :up:
  • Evidence of Consciousness Surviving the Body
    physics after the free miracle — AmadeusD
    I.e. mygoddidit-of-the-gaps :sparkle:
  • US Election 2024 (All general discussion)
    A category 5 ketchup shitstorm in Mar-a-Loco! :mask:
  • Donald Trump (All General Trump Conversations Here)
    ↪Baden
    Okay. :sweat:
  • Donald Trump (All General Trump Conversations Here)
    12August24

    TIM240826-Kamala-Cover-FINAL.jpg?quality=75&w=2400

    Roevember is coming! :victory: :cool:
  • Is A Utopian Society Possible ?
    Philosophy cannot replace spirituality. — Tarskian
    What do you mean by "philosophy"and "spirituality" – what makes them fundamentally different?

    NB: Greco-Romans of the Hellenistic era practiced their philosophies (Epicureanism, Stoicism, Neoplatonism, etc) as ways of life consisting of "spiritual exercises" (P. Hadot).

    ↪schopenhauer1
    ???
  • Is A Utopian Society Possible ?
    You will find no other philosophy so reviled, misunderstood, and scorned, yet still true.
    — schopenhauer1

    Hallmark belief of a religious cult.     — Lionino
    :up:
  • Evidence of Consciousness Surviving the Body
    Physicalism is, in slogan form, the thesis that everything is physical....
    —Stanford Encylopedia of Philosophy     — Wayfarer
    Yeah, of course, you"re making my point again: you traffic in slogans – strawmen – rather than informed, valid arguments. :smirk:
  • US Election 2024 (All general discussion)
    There’s no way I’m voting Trump — John McMannis
    If so, then vote against him in the most effective way based on your situation: if you live in a swing state (i.e. polling trends are within the margin of error so that there is a reasonable chance for Trump to win your state), then vote "Harris-Walz"; if, however, you live in a safe state (i.e. Trump can't either lose or win that state), then vote for a third-party candidate who most aligns with your policy preferences (e.g. I will write-in "Cornel West" here in Washington state).
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