Comments

  • Israel killing civilians in Gaza and the West Bank
    Screw "the moderates" – both (all) sides, or peoples, need to mobilize their respective militant anti-extremists.
  • The essence of religion
    Could caring instead, or also, be the most immanent, most intimate expression of the one who is being religious (or just being)?Fire Ologist
    :fire: ... ecstatic immanence.
  • The essence of religion
    As "the essence of religion", why do you priviledge, or prioritize, (your) religious ideality over (primordial) religious facticity? It seems abundantly evident (to me at least) that the latter is the independent variable and therefore inescapably anterior both anthropologically and psychosocially to the former.

    ... it has to be brought to an even more penetrating analysis in order to show the world that religion is the THE profound center of our existence, not this or that religion, but religion in its essence.Constance
    Yes, fear – conatus as ineluctable striving to overcome – escape from – fear (e.g. mortality ... manifest in burying our dead, etc). H. sapiens' (aka "h. religiosus'")¹ first, oldest, perennial escape plan – the quest for magical/symbolic "immortality" – is what we now call "religion" as such.

    I prefer h. ludens¹ ... :death: :flower:
  • Is atheism illogical?
    I missed (overlooked) this post – I more or less agree. :up:

    :roll:

    I tried to help clarify your "dumb" definitions, but you're incorrible. Both theism and atheism, as definitions and in practice, are expressions of belief and not knowing; yet, apparently, the difference between 'believing' (that / in) and 'knowing' (how / that / what) are also lost on you; and as an antitheist, your ignorance, Amadeus, of how I/we actually use the term antitheism is "silly" (probably disingenuous too). You can, of course, define terms in any way you like in order to reassure yourself of atheism (or any other concept); for me, however, what matters is whether or not arguments for atheism (or any concept) are valid rather than relying on mere stipulations like you vacuously have done.
  • US Election 2024 (All general discussion)
    4June24

    :smirk: I'm fever dreaming ...

    (1) After SCOTUS delay tactic decision to, in effect, kick "absolute immunity" pleading back down to the federal district court at end of June and sentencing drops on July 11 in NYC, Judge Chutkan in DC should revoke Convict-1's pre-trial release for violating its terms with 10 citations of criminal contempt of court and have Felon-1 sit in a Washington DC jail until his "January 6th Conspiracy" trial begins.

    (2) "October Surprise": in a prime time televised press conference, POTUS should offer a full pardon to Convicted Felon-1 two weeks before the general election IFF Convicted Felon-1 admits his guilt for both sets of federal crimes in Washington DC and South Florida ... "so that the people, not the courts, can decide the election", etc. Of course, Loser-1 won't accept such a pardon – either way he'd lose more support on the margins, especially among Independent voters in several critical "swing states".

    :victory: :cool:
  • How would you respond to the trolley problem?
    In THIS limited situation, what is more moral?Philosophim
    Neither. IMHO, wrong question as I point out (above):

    https://thephilosophyforum.com/discussion/comment/908263
  • Last Rites for a Dying Civilization
    Quite simply, there isn't time enough for AI to shake off the shackles of partisan capital.Vera Mont
    Am I wrong to read this as "there isn't enough time for you/us to wait for AI ..."?
  • How would you respond to the trolley problem?
    I think "The Trolley Problem" is a variation on the lesser evil dilemma which is political (re: surviving (e.g. triage)), not moral (re: thriving, flourishing), because both horns of the dilemma are repugnant and, at best, the positive outcome of "potentially saving more lives by sacrificing fewer lives" is only instrumental (i.e. an output of an arithmetic calculation). However, while the option of ignoring "the problem" is also political, non-interference in this kind of situation is immoral too because the non-interferer – bystander – becomes an accomplice by inaction to the "greater evil" outcome. These sorts of lesser evil dilemmas presented in ethics courses seem to me mere academic pseudo-problems (i.e. idle puzzles).

    Anyway, what would I do? I'd throw the damn switch; then, one way or another I'd hunt down the murderous SOBs who set this human-rat trap.
  • Last Rites for a Dying Civilization
    Civilization (i.e. the sedimentary archive of 'oligarchic dominance hierarchies') has been dying for at least ten millennia just each of us has been dying since birth. Re: entropy (the details are trivial but inexorable). And so I'm afraid – to paraphrase an old deadender, nazi sophist – only a singularity¹ can save us. :eyes:

    https://thephilosophyforum.com/discussion/comment/849880 [2]

    https://thephilosophyforum.com/discussion/comment/850133 [3]
  • Donald Trump (All General Trump Conversations Here)
    This hush money conviction is no big deal.
    — Hanover

    Is it?

    Trump isn't constrained by any moral code. The only constraint on his behavior is the legal code, and then - only if a solid case can be made. Prosecuting Trump for this minor crime reminds me of the prosecution of Al Capone, for tax evasion.
    Relativist
    :up: :up:
  • Is atheism illogical?
    Sure, anything can be believed. My point (re: D), however, is inferred.
  • Is atheism illogical?
    A. Theism=I know there's a God;
    B. Atheism = I do not know whether there's a God;
    C. Agnosticism = I cannot know whether there is a God; and
    D. Anti-Theism = I know there is not a God.
    AmadeusD
    A. I believe in a God.
    B. I do not believe in a God.
    C. I do not know whether or not there is a God.
    D. I claim that 'theism is not true, therefore theistic deities are fictions, and therefore theistic religions (i.e. ritualized delusions) are immoral'.

    ABC are standard definitions and D is nonstandard (which I prefer).
  • Donald Trump (All General Trump Conversations Here)
    I don't see these charges resulting in jail time anyway.Hanover
    :ok:
  • Kant's ethic is protestant
    Kant was a Lutheran (Pietist) who strove 'to limit reason in order to make room for faith' and so his practical reason (e.g. deontology) was faith-based, no?
  • Donald Trump (All General Trump Conversations Here)
    A simple change of venue would have been an appropriate fix. How would you go about finding an impartial court and jury?NOS4A2
    The obvious lesson here, just as in the previous 3 civil law suits: DO NOT DEFAME, SEXUAL ASSUALT, DEFRAUD OR MAKE/TAKE UNLAWFUL CAMPAIGN CONTRIBUTIONS THAT YOU THEN HAVE TO COVER-UP in a jurisdiction – your hometown! – where you have been very unpopular (as a known bankrupted grifter buffoon & racist bully) for 4-5 decades. Not too effing bright! – and then you (and your "poorly educated" horde of cultists) whine whine whine on about it like most common criminals do. :sweat:

    First of all, the chance of Trump spending even a day in prison is zero.Relativist
    Well, my guess (today, 31May24) is that Convicted Felon-1 will be sentenced to 2-4 years for each of the 34 felonies that will run concurrently (so that if only 1 felony survives the appeal process, he will still serve 2-4 years in prison), probably starting in spring 2025. The basis of sentencing will be Convict-1's (a) conspicuous lack of contrition, (b) 10 criminal contempt citations & (c) continuous post-trial attacks on witnesses, jurors, prosecutors et al as well as (d) the scope of the predicate crime (that his co-conspirator Michael Cohen was sentenced to a 3 year prison term by the Feds) that he covered-up in 20i6 & the need to deter him from committing the same 2016 crimes again in 2024.

    Also, those 10 criminal contempt citations violate the terms of Convict-1's pretrial release in each of the other 3 juridictions where he has been indicted. While it is unlikely his bail release in either Georgia or Florida will be revoked, it's quite possible that as early as July (after SCOTUS either punts (or does not) or rules that a POTUS has "absolute immunity"), the DC District Judge Chutkan can order Convict-1 remanded to jail until his trial starts. This happens everyday to thousands of criminal defendants, indicted for violent and nonviolent crimes, all across the US in local, state & federal courts – it'll be more egregious special treatment if Convict-1 isn't jailed for violating his pre-trial release (re: criminal contempt of court in NY 10 times).


    Political considerations aside, I wonder what TPF's resident lawyers think @Maw @Ciceroianus @Hanover (@Benkei) et al :chin:
  • Thrasymachus' echo throughout history.
    "Might makes right" now (i.e. zerosum); however, reciprocal might deters wrongs (i.e. non-zerosum). I suspect even Thrasymachus would agree.
  • The essence of religion
    Dogmatism can creep in anywhere.Mikie
    True. However, dogmatism is always anathema to 'reflective inquiry' (or dialectics & contemplating aporias) and usually consistent with – follows from – 'faith' (or undecidable (e.g. merely subjective, supernatural) beliefs).
  • US Election 2024 (All general discussion)
    1. Convicted Whiny Bitch Felon-1
    2. Convicted Whiny Bitch Felon-1
    3. Convicted Whiny Bitch Felon-1
    4. Convicted Whiny Bitch Felon-1
    5. Convicted Whiny Bitch Felon-1
    6. Convicted Whiny Bitch Felon-1
    7. Convicted Whiny Bitch Felon-1
    8.Convicted Whiny Bitch Felon-1
    9.Convicted Whiny Bitch Felon-1
    10. Convicted Whiny Bitch Felon-1
    11. Convicted Whiny Bitch Felon-1
    12. Convicted Whiny Bitch Felon-1
    13. Convicted Whiny Bitch Felon-1
    14. Convicted Whiny Bitch Felon-1
    15. Convicted Whiny Bitch Felon-1
    16. Convicted Whiny Bitch Felon-1
    17. Convicted Whiny Bitch Felon-1
    18.Convicted Whiny Bitch Felon-1
    19.Convicted Whiny Bitch Felon-1
    20. Convicted Whiny Bitch Felon-1
    21. Convicted Whiny Bitch Felon-1
    22. Convicted Whiny Bitch Felon-1
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    30. Convicted Whiny Bitch Felon-1
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    34. Convicted Whiny Bitch Felon-1


    Not playing on Fox Noise, OAN, RT, Alex Jones or anyother MAGA/Putin propaganda outlet:
  • The essence of religion
    I see little difference between religion and philosophy— both ask very universal, difficult, extra-ordinary questions about existence.Mikie
    In my mind that "little difference" is this: philosophy (logos) begins with questions we do not (yet) know how to answer and proceeds by reasoning towards more probative questions (re: reflective inquiry as a way of life :fire:) whereas religion (mythos) begins with answers we are "commanded" not to question and proceeds by faith in obeying such unquestioned answers (re: surrender as a way of life :pray:).
  • US Election 2024 (All general discussion)
    Now I can't wait for the June (debate") between Sleepy Dark Brandon and (probably no show) Convicted Felon-1. :lol:

    https://thephilosophyforum.com/discussion/comment/907663
  • Donald Trump (All General Trump Conversations Here)
    30May24

    Today in Trumpenfreude

    1. NYC felony indictment
    31Mar23 :up:
    "34 counts of Business Documents Fraud Crealing and/or Covering-up Felonies", etc

    https://apnews.com/article/trump-indictment-full-document-640043319549?utm_source=homepage&utm_medium=RelatedStories&utm_campaign=position_02
    180 Proof

    "The Orange Turd" has been flushed! :party:

    https://www.politico.com/news/2024/05/30/donald-trump-guilty-hush-money-trial-00160460

    LOCK HIM UP! :clap:

    update:

    https://thephilosophyforum.com/discussion/comment/907730
  • Israel killing civilians in Gaza and the West Bank
    By the way, Israel does not represent Jews globally. It doesn't even represent all Jews within its borders. Many are adamantly opposed to Israel's malpractices.Tzeentch
    :up: :up:

    Jewish nation-stateschopenhauer1
    i.e. ethnonationalist colonizer-settler apartheid regime
  • The essence of religion
    Purpose ... Perhaps?Outlander
    "Purpose" in the context, as I've pointed out previously, seems to me a (sublimated) quest for symbolic/magical immortality (motivated (driven) by the fear of disease dying & death).

    :up:
  • The essence of religion
    What I understand the OP question about "the essence of religion" to mean pertains to the (speculative) cultural-anthropological origin of religion and not how contemporary people use religious practice in their daily lives. For some, perhaps religion functions as "seeking truth" as you say, ENOAH; I suspect, however, that several hundreds of generations ago primeval humans were in the thrall of profound ignorance of, and helplessness before, the fact of imminent decay dying & death (i.e. mortality) and told themselves self-consoling fairytales and made propitiating sacrifices to 'good fairies for "protection" from evil fairies' as ritualized anti-anxiety terror management (i.e. religion).
  • The essence of religion
    Death is only an issue if one first cares about dying.Constance
    I.e. if one is a sentient, self-aware mortal.
  • The essence of religion
    I think it started as pure philosophy, then wandered into superstition and lost its way in organized religion.Vera Mont
    What do you mean by "pure philosophy" and how does "superstition" follow from it?

    Religion, to me, is about, and rises out of, [ ... ] questions arise that cannot be answered leading to suffering. Many religions thus aim to reconcile this difference by denying it. Thus, ”all is one”, ”experience of self is an illusion” etc.Jussi Tennilä
    :up:

    Fear of death is downstream from the realisation of this distinction between ”I” and ”other”.
    I differ with this only in the order of experience/realization: developmentally humans experience death¹, therefore instinctively fear it, long before realizing – those who do explicitly – that the 'I-world duality is irreconcible (or even irreparable)', which compounds the fear (i.e. suffering) that requires relief and succor in degrees of self-consoling reality-denial (e.g. dreams of / quests for symbolic / magical immortality) aka "religion".


    ¹After all, death was far more ubiquitious and impactful thousands of generations ago, long before language & culture took hold, and we have always consumed dead things in order to survive.
  • Imagining a world without the concept of ownership
    :100:

    Folks might like to read 'The Dispossessed', by Ursula K LeGuin, for a plausible imagining of a cooperative anarchy.unenlightened
    Terrific story. :up:

    In a similar vein, Iain M. Bank's Culture series of an AI-managed post-scarcity, interstellar civilization-wide anarchy...

    The background of the question is a kind of genealogy of ownership.frank
    I think property, not "ownership" (mine-ness), is optional – a venn diagram from the least artificial and essential social arrangement to the most artificial and inessential: personal property (one's own mindbody (re: responsibilities), clothes, tools / labor, leisure), communal property (commons), public property ('republic', city / town, roads / waterways), and private property ('codified' scarcity-re/production, ergo class-caste conflicts) – [personal [communal [public [ private ]]]].
  • Is atheism illogical?
    hope is more of a religious thing.
    — Fire Ologist

    Wrong way around. Hope is a human thing and therefore religion.
    Vera Mont
    :fire:
  • The essence of religion
    :up:

    The warning was "If ye eat from the Tree, ye will surely die", as opposed to "instantly die".Outlander
    ... or as opposed to the truth: "I, the Lord thy God, shall condemn thee to suffer and die. :roll:
  • Israel killing civilians in Gaza and the West Bank
    [T]he corresponding UN Security Council resolutions make exactly this argument - that Israel was making any peace deal impossible by creating facts on the ground that are basically irreversible. That was exactly the goal of the settlement policy.Tzeentch
    :100: :up:
  • Israel killing civilians in Gaza and the West Bank
    And that's why Netanyahu supported so eagerly Hamas, those Palestinians that are against a negotiated two state solution.ssu
    :100:
  • The essence of religion
    We start off with freedom. [ ... ] What do you want with knowing?ENOAH
    There is no "freedom" without "knowing" (e.g. the difference between being free and not being free). To be free from ignorance is the capacity to be free for learning, knowing, understanding and then freeing others. I read the biblical creation myth this way: "Adam and Eve" were slaves punished with mortality by The Master for learning that they do not have to be slaves by learning to disobey (i.e. how to free themselves). :fire:
  • The essence of religion
    I did not anwhere claim or imply your "religion in opposition to science" strawman. Also, read the OP and thread title: "essence" is @Constance's term and not mine. :roll: