Sure. I would assume that being morally responsible would require you and your decisions to be able to.... you know.... do something. Guess not though. — khaled
No, that's the bonkers view you expressed earlier and then disavowed when its bonkerishness became apparent. To be morally responsible for intending to kill Sarah your intention does not need to have resulted in Sarah's death, it is sufficient that you formed it. Obviously.
Whether or not the thesis is bizarre and motivated. You would have known that had you simply read what I quoted. — khaled
This is a derailing move as whether epiphenomenalism is plausible or not is demonstrably irrelevant to the free will question. But it 'is' a bizarre and unmotivated view. For the same evidence that implies material events cause mental ones exists for the reverse. What's the evidence that material events cause mental ones? Well, I just bashed my toe - material event - and it caused me to be in pain - mental event. What's the evidence that mental events cause material ones? The pain - mental event - caused me to shout out "ouch", which was a material event. But anyway, whether or not epiphenomenalism is a really stupid view or a sensible interpretation of the data is neither here nor there, as it doesn't bear on the issue under debate.
Because whether I am morally responsible or not for my intentions and decisions and other mental activities has nothing to do with whether they are causally effective in the world.
— Bartricks
I think you're on your own there. — khaled
Oh, so now you 'do' think that whether you're morally responsible for intending to do X depends on whether X actually occurs? Not a great friend of Consistency are you? Until you and consistency start getting on a bit better I'm not sure this is going to be at all productive.
Morality applies to actions. Not mental activities. — khaled
It applies to more than actions, and some mental activities are actions and some mental activity is essential to all actions. So, you know, well done for being so wrong about so much.
And I'm curious how you think your mind originated. Not due to your birth or anything physical like that of course. So what? It was just sort of always there? An immortal soul of some sort? — khaled
It didn't originate, for if it did then it would be the product of external causes. And yes, a soul. That's the point. Free will requires a soul.
Here's the argument again, clearly laid out:
1. If my mind is the product of external events that I had no hand in, then I am not morally responsible for anything about my mind or anything it is caused to do. (If A, then B)
2. I am morally responsible for being the mind that I am and am morally responsible for what it is caused to do. (Not B)
3. Therefore, my mind is not the product of external events I had no hand in. (Therefore, not A)
4. If my mind is a material thing, then it is the product of external events I had no hand in (if C, then A)
5. Therefore, my mind is not a material thing (Therefore, not C).
6. If my mind is not a material thing, then it is an immaterial thing (if not C, then D)
7. Therefore, my mind is an immaterial thing (therefore D)
Free will requires a soul then. And a soul I am. And a soul you are. Which means you're morally responsible for the way you have been thinking above.