Comments

  • Science as Metaphysics
    But that is precisely what has been called into question by experiments . . .Quixodian

    A lot depends upon the idea of "superposition", which has a simple mathematical interpretation. I remain unconvinced, and Wigner himself criticized "Wigner's Friend". I refuse to succumb to the woo surrounding this - but that's just me and I don't have a physics background.
  • Science as Metaphysics
    I think the difficulty here is the red herring of independence of physics and its objects from any particular embodied physicistplaque flag

    A group of physicists devise an experiment, including a device to measure the outcome. They perform the experiment, then cluster around the computer screen to read the result - they all agree they see the same thing. The experiment is replicated numerous times, with the same result. How is this "dependence" upon a particular "embodied" scientist?

    Perhaps I'm not interpreting what you say properly.
  • Southern pride?
    I grew up in an educated family in the Deep South, and was taught to be polite and respect others. No Southern Pride.
  • The Worldly Foolishness of Philosophy
    I very much think that a mathematician or physicist or biologist can do genuine 'ontological' work themselvesplaque flag

    It's better they are unaware that's what they're doing. :roll:
  • Is Philosophy still Relevant?
    Possibly advances in mathematics were catalyzed by the discovery of fossil fuelsJanus

    Hmmm. Never thought of that. More like the surge of science in the 14th century, including measuring velocity over short periods of time, then resurrecting the ancient Greeks' notions of approximating volumes of objects by adding very small parts. After the firming up of calculus things moved pretty fast.
  • The Worldly Foolishness of Philosophy
    What can the philosopher offer ?plaque flag

    Not much these days. But being philosophical might help smooth out the bumps in life.

    The teaching of the sciences embodies the appropriate philosophical ideas for those subjects.
  • The Worldly Foolishness of Philosophy
    Dutiful, taking pains, loving, hoping not to get run down today by a man in a hurry.unenlightened

    Yesterday, upon the stair,
    A hurried man who wasn't there
    He wasn't there again today
    I wish, I wish he'd go away...
  • The Scientific Method
    The abandonment of belief in what is merely imagined and what seems merely intuitively "right" with no other supporting evidence seems to be the essential element of scientific method . . .Janus

    I wouldn't be too sure about the "abandonment" in actual practice . . . . down deep scientists have ideas they hope will be substantiated by experiment or shown to be wrong. Preferably the former. They are, by and large, human and hope to get there first. On the other hand pure curiosity can be a driving force.
  • Is Philosophy still Relevant?


    Very nice presentation. Metaphysics in the sciences goes on all the time, although most come from actual scientists.

    I was curious about mathematical metaphysics, thinking I had some inkling of what that might be. I have in the past thought of infinitesimals in this light, but searching I came across Mathematical Metaphysics by a prominent academic philosopher and a PhD math student. It is both dense and lengthy, hallmarks of the profession I assume, and seems to boil down to something akin to Tegmark's Mathematical
    Universe.
    Every object, physical or otherwise is mathematical, and defined by a structure in which it resides. But I lost interest and perseverance after a few pages of the 32 page paper.

    Lengthy, dense papers appear in math journals as well, and they sometimes owe their lengths and convoluted nature to attempts to fill every intellectual crack so no one else can benefit from their discoveries and/or to answer all questions in advance. But it's late and I wither and dither.
  • Can you really contemplate without having a conversation with yourself?


    I'm 86 and have talked, argued, debated with myself all my life. As a mathematician that internal dialogue goes on forever.

    When I was a rock climber and free soloed unknown territory I was my own companion, reasoning with myself constantly. When things got dicey I imagined an invisible cord suspended from the heavens having me on "top-rope".

    What human being does not converse with themselves?
  • Is Philosophy still Relevant?
    How much is the quality of the experience of the present enhanced through understanding of the past?Pantagruel

    Good point. If I answer as a mathematician, I would say a little, but not very much. I already had a PhD before I looked carefully into the subject as it existed two thousand years ago. I did ponder platonic entities for a brief spell, and the fatigued conundrum of whether math is created or discovered.

    How much does understanding enhance experience?Pantagruel

    The "understanding" of the ancients is pleasant to contemplate, but largely eclipsed by what has been discovered in recent times. Understanding is debatable.

    As for answering as a human being, I got very little out of philosophy until I read Sartre and found I was an existentialist.

    Good thread. :up:
  • Is Philosophy still Relevant?
    When you are reading it, do you feel you are contributing?Pantagruel

    More so when you write or speak it I suspect. Where does philosophy drift into reflection and, in the sciences, speculation? Are there lines of demarcation?

    How much more can one learn by reading and rereading works produced hundreds if not thousands of years ago? At least the thread on agential reality has a freshening quality.
  • Introducing Karen Barad’s New Materialism
    Barad explains that this has not been lost - it’s just not what Newton (or even Einstein) assumed it was. Rather, it’s relation all the way downPossibility

    Succinct. But merely a curiosity in physics and math. Perhaps most meaningful in sociological settings.
  • Introducing Karen Barad’s New Materialism
    Regarding teaching of math Barad and others speak of removing or blunting "sharp edges" of definitions and concepts to enable students "entanglement" with the subject.

    Sound familiar? Exactly what happens here on TPF when math pops up.

    On the other hand this happens frequently amongst professional mathematicians. It's one way the subject advances.
  • Chaos Magic
    If there's virtue here, it's not in eschewing choice or convenience, but in (a) looking and (b) holding your beliefs as open to revisionSrap Tasmaner

    :up: In a nutshell.
  • Introducing Karen Barad’s New Materialism
    I continue to look into New Materialism as it affects math or physics teaching. Here is an excerpt from the Article

    Multimodality and New Materialism in Science
    Learning: Exploring Insights from an Introductory
    Physics Lesson
    by Marshall and Conana

    A multimodal social semiotics perspective to science teaching and learning considers
    the language of science a cultural tool for meaning-making, where the mode used to
    inscribe the scientific ideas produces the intended meanings for the meaning-maker
    (Kress et al. 2001). Within the field of physics education, social semiotics perspectives
    have productively been used to examine student learning. Here, physics learning is
    viewed as “becoming fluent in a critical constellation” of modes (Airey and Linder
    2009, 27). Each mode (speech, graph, diagram, mathematics, gesture) can be seen to
    have different affordances, and meaning-making can be viewed as the effect of all these
    modes acting jointly. Volkwyn et al. (2019), drawing on Bezemer and Kress (2008),
    describe the movement from one mode to another as “transduction”. Studies show that
    a multimodal conceptualisation of science teaching enables students to better access the
    semiotic resources needed for successful learning of science (Airey and Simpson 2019).

    I'm seeing only a description of common teaching practices from a different POV.
  • Introducing Karen Barad’s New Materialism
    Still trying to see if there is any meat on this bone, I find

    A STRUCTURAL THEORY OF EVERYTHING
    Brian D. Josephson
    Mind–Matter Unification Project,
    Cavendish Laboratory, J J Thomson Avenue, Cambridge CB3 0HE

    The realist position differs from the usual one adopted in quantum mechanics in that it attempts to describe what actually happens in the case of individual events, rather than simply computing averages. The difference is apparent in the case of a typical high-energy physics experiment in which large numbers of individual events are observed. Quantum theory addresses only statistical averages, whereas one can imagine instead a theory that can describe what happens individual events. In confining oneself to statistics as is the norm, one may be missing crucial information, as would indeed
    happen in sciences such as astronomy. This would clearly be the case in astronomy, where for
    example a statistical approach to meteor showers would fail to note the occasional peaks in
    intensity.

    On the other hand, Physics Stack Exchange tries to avoid even discussing agential realism in that science. It seems to have status similar to many-worlds speculations. That is to say nothing has come of it in actual physics.

    I welcome any thoughts to the contrary.
  • Introducing Karen Barad’s New Materialism


    Postmodern quantum mechanics rejects the quasi-theological fundamentalism governing much of recent high-energy physics . . .

    I tried reading the 1993 paper describing this shift in thinking, but only came away with the idea of using semi-classical methods of approximation to unravel chaos. Supposedly, Barad extends ideas of Bohr into other aspects of physics. I didn't get far. A physicist might explain how this relates to agential realism. That is, if there are any physicists who entertain this concept.

    As to Barad's approach to teaching math, I assume it boils down to engaging students in Woke causes mathematically. But I could be wrong. If so, I welcome illumination.
  • Introducing Karen Barad’s New Materialism
    Intra-action seems interwoven with Science studies and I suppose the teaching of math would necessarily be in the context of societal effects, etc. This might overlap or be similar to Waldorf education.

    I have a good friend who years ago helped bring Spacial dynamics to the teaching realm. The teaching of math then becomes more a physical process than a purely mental one.

    Otherwise I don't see where agential realism goes. It appears to me be more societal oriented, with emphasis of feminist related issues.
  • Introducing Karen Barad’s New Materialism
    I was curious about Barad's philosophy of mathematics. It seems she (they) was influenced by Oresme and Leibniz from centuries ago. But I am fuzzy about "intra-action" in that environment. Another source talks of a math learner "enter(ing) a material process of becoming".


    From Wiki (Nicole Oresme):

    To Oresme, an object moves, but it is not a moving object. Once an object begins movement through the three dimensions it has a new “modus rei” or “way of being,” which should only be described through the perspective of the moving object, rather than a distinct point.

    I'm wondering if a definition or theorem only "comes alive" if it is involved in a process in mathematical thought.
  • Density and Infinity
    Well, when we explore space, we don't see any Boltzmann brainsRogueAI

    Cosmology at its best. A PhD thesis could be written on this observation. :roll:
  • What Are You Watching Right Now?
    Just saw Oppenheimer. Nolan is representative of the times— the “auteur” of plebs.Mikie

    I haven't seen it yet, but I really enjoyed the WGN production of the series Manhattan several years ago.
  • What do we know absolutely?
    Within certain systems of thought, rigorously defined, there are absolutes. Mathematics, for instance. In general it's best to avoid any such perspective. Except death and taxes.
  • The awareness of time
    Leibniz v Newton is still a topic in history of ideas and physics, to do with their competing understandings of time.Wayfarer

    True, though relativity came along.

    A far more relevant and interesting conflict of ideas of time is Einstein vs Bergson.
  • Relative vs absolute
    Maths in its casual absolutism can provide pragmatic models of reality. But here you would need to start to think about how reality itself might be more deeply describedapokrisis

    No need to start thinking about the obvious. Thanks for the reminder. :smile:
  • The awareness of time
    Yes but the dispute over whether it was Newton or Liebniz [Leibniz] who came up with calculus is the part you will hear about outside mathematics class.Wayfarer

    Important at the time, virtual trivia now. Possibly a subject for philosophers to entertain. :smile:
  • Relative vs absolute
    Why is differentiation reciprocal to integration?apokrisis

    You've got to be kidding. Reciprocal?

    The real world of natural processes is pretty fractal, ain't it? Mountains, coastlines, rivers, earthquakesapokrisis

    In a very rough sense of the word. Not mathematically. No coastline is patterned the same upon closer and closer examination.

    A coastline is irregular over every scale of observation because it is a dynamical balance between smoothness and roughness. Or "integration and differentiation".apokrisis

    Irregularity is a long way from fractal. Smoothness and roughness is comparable to integration and differentiation? :roll:

    But maybe the Cosmos just ain't a computation as maths would like to demand, and instead dynamical balanceapokrisis

    No reason to assert that "dynamical balance" is not mathematical.
  • Relative vs absolute
    I know, not quite what you mean. :cool: — jgill

    But note how fractals neatly express the intermediate case between the continuous and the discrete.
    apokrisis

    Don't need fractals. There is no intermediate case. The continuous is the limit of the discrete.The limit definition of the common integral does the job. And when I write a computer program to obtain the image of a contour in the complex plane I choose a value of N and plot N points, then increase N to get a better image until reaching the limitations of my computer.
  • The awareness of time
    Leibniz came up with the idea, — jgill

    Wasn’t that contested by Newton?
    Wayfarer

    Both were eclipsed by Weierstrass and Cauchy with their formalization of limits. :cool:

    Non-standard analysis was formalized in the last century - it uses infinitesimals - but is rarely taught these days. A friend who was in the math department at CU Boulder told me they experimented with it one term, but for whatever reasons it was not successful.
  • A List of Intense Annoyances
    Driving down a two lane one direction street when two bicycle lanes appear, sending you into a single lane. No matter how often you drive this street you never see a bicyclist.
  • It's Amazing That These People Are Still With Us
    But these people started so young and got so famous so quickly that it’s as if they’ve been in the background since the 1880s.Mikie

    ?
  • Consequentialism: Flagellation Required
    Dit que le mieux est l'ennemi du bien
  • Relative vs absolute
    In reality, nothing could be absolutely continuous as it would indeed just break the yardstickapokrisis

    Absolute continuity

    I know, not quite what you mean. :cool:
  • The awareness of time
    But doesn't infinitesimal mean exceedingly small?Alkis Piskas

    I've always thought of infinitesimals as part of the metaphysics of mathematics. They don't really exist in normal arithmetic, but have a mathematical description that allows them to be used in calculus, say. Leibniz came up with the idea, then a bit later the limit definitions took over.

    Infinitesimal

    They have no Euclidean dimension (except for position).
  • The awareness of time
    The same applies to "a period of tme" or "interval of time". They are all self-referential expressions. I know these expressions are commonly used. But better avoid this, at least in this place, isn't that right?Alkis Piskas

    Yes, by all means.


    That would require an instant of zero-length. Which is absurd of course. So, we have to set a length for an instant, however small that may be. Which makes "present" a relative thing.Alkis Piskas

    In physics and math the word instant means instantaneous or infinitesimal - having no length or duration. However, in common usage it can mean a tiny interval. Planck time is the limit of measurability and does not necessarily imply the smallest possible time interval.
  • The awareness of time
    Time does not actually exist.Alkis Piskas

    A bit convoluted. To exist possibly means to persist through a duration of time. Can something exist in only an instant of time? The blink of an eye, then gone? Could we detect such an occurrence?
  • The awareness of time
    It seems to me, that any notion of a personal 'awareness of time,' must be perceived with a description of expansion/inflation/ relative reference frames, such as Victors in mind. 'It's all relative.'universeness

    :up: Toth is a fine expositor. So are Muller and Fernee.
  • The awareness of time
    Perhaps the concept of time only makes sense in the context of awareness.Pantagruel

    Not really. You fall asleep and awaken in the blink of an eye, finding that an hour has past and the world has moved on.

    If time measures change, or gives change substance, it is a bit strange that the metrics in special relativity allow for a change of spacetime when there is no change of position in space.
  • Why should we talk about the history of ideas?
    How does one respond to babble with a question mark at its end?