If someone says they were born in the 'wrong body' and identify as male (born sex as female) do you have some reflections regarding an approach we might take? — Tom Storm

Is this something you've ever had to deal with in your work?

I don't see any realistic alternative to political authority. There are billions of people living close together. There are no longer many places to run off to if you don't like the way things are going. Just about everywhere you go there is another political authority waiting.

What does Rose suggest?

I'm going to put some vocabulary that is backed by the transgender community below — Philosophim

I don't have any trouble with what you've written, although I am confused by your claim that it is backed by the transgender community. The way the situation is usually presented is that the transgender community believes that transgender people who are biologically male should be legally and socially treated and named as women with the reverse being true for those who are biologically female. Is that not correct? Conflicts are reported between people who want transgender women to be able to compete against biological females in sports and those who don't. People have been fired because they refused to call biological males by female pronouns.

Don't get over-excited auld yin! — universeness

I understand. You never have been one to speak out about what's fair and what's not.

I think Mr Schop1 has been able to sneak in a few new antinatalist threads since the move the mods made to put them all under 1 title. — universeness

In the words of Winston Churchill, "Eat it raw, fuzz nuts."

The moderators have relegated all anti-natalism posts to a single thread. That includes anti-anti-natalism threads.

https://thephilosophyforum.com/discussion/13310/antinatalism-arguments/p1

It is a pity. — javi2541997

Alas, fiction is not my medium.

Wow Clarky, please don't take this the wrong way but I'm frankly shocked that you're a Mieville fan. Not out of any disrespect, but simply because I don't recall discussing any fiction with you, compiled with the fact that you seem to philosophically oppose the short story contests. — Noble Dust

I'm surprised that you're surprised. I talk about fiction fairly often on the forum, including in this thread. You and I discussed "Ubik" just a while ago. I have nothing philosophical against the short story contests, I'm just not interested in either reading or writing short stories. I read short stories a lot when I was younger - mostly science fiction. I somehow have lost my taste for them. I'm retired. I read a lot. Mostly fiction, but also science and philosophy - primarily Taoist philosophy.

I wasn't going to mention it, but I just started reading "The Possessed" by Dostoyevsky. Also known as "Devils" or "Demons." I'm not sure if I'll finish it, but I wanted to read something by him after I couldn't get through "Crime and Punishment." After 10 pages I couldn't stop laughing. I read "Notes from the Underground" in college, but I can't remember it much. I don't do well with bleak and tedious books with unlikeable characters. That's the kind @Baden likes.

As for the TV show, I would have a look, but I must read the book first, otherwise, I spoil a good novel reading opportunity. — Manuel

"The City and the City" is at heart a police procedural, so I think it's much more accessible than most of Mielville's books. It's also probably the most filmable. I can't imagine what a movie or TV show about New Crobuzon, the city where "Perdidio Street Station" takes place, would look like. Actually, maybe I could. It would be like the bar scene from "Star Wars" as written by Charles Dickens.

Perdido Street Station by China Miéville — Manuel

I really like China Miéville. "Railsea" is one of my favorite books and "The City and the City" is great. I also enjoyed "Embassytown" and "Kraken." He writes so well. He uses uncommon words without ever seeming pedantic. I can't imagine reading one of his books except on Kindle where I can look things up right away.

I started reading "Perdido Street Station" before, but got lost about a third of the way through. The writing is dense and visual. The world is so odd. That's true of all his books but not to the same extent. I gave up, but you have inspired me to go at it again. That partly because I don't feel like I should try to read "The Scar" or "Iron Council" till I do. I'm about 30 pages in now. The writing is wonderful, the world is bleak and amazing, and I am determined.

Have you seen the television adaptation of "The City and the City?" I generally don't want to watch movies or TV shows of books I like, but I'm curious.

Nothing works. I'm not "treating" them at all; I'm not communicating with them; there is not a snowball's chance in hell of resolving these conflicts. — Vera Mont

Well, then. I guess there's nothing else to say.

Does the depth dimension go to infinity in either or both directions? — Art48

The phenomenon you call depth is generally known as scale. There is speculation that there is a minimum scale, called Planck scale, with specific dimensions of time, energy, length. Here's some information:

In particle physics and physical cosmology, Planck units are a set of units of measurement defined exclusively in terms of four universal physical constants, in such a manner that these physical constants take on the numerical value of 1 when expressed in terms of these units. Originally proposed in 1899 by German physicist Max Planck, these units are a system of natural units because their definition is based on properties of nature, more specifically the properties of free space, rather than a choice of prototype object. They are relevant in research on unified theories such as quantum gravity.

The term Planck scale refers to quantities of space, time, energy and other units that are similar in magnitude to corresponding Planck units. This region may be characterized by particle energies of around 1019 GeV or 109 J, time intervals of around 10−43 s and lengths of around 10−35 m (approximately the energy-equivalent of the Planck mass, the Planck time and the Planck length, respectively). At the Planck scale, the predictions of the Standard Model, quantum field theory and general relativity are not expected to apply, and quantum effects of gravity are expected to dominate. The best-known example is represented by the conditions in the first 10−43 seconds of our universe after the Big Bang, approximately 13.8 billion years ago. — Wikipedia - Planck Units

I don't have much to offer on this, but this is related to a subject that @apokrisis has talked about - biosemiosis.

Biosemiotics (from the Greek βίος bios, "life" and σημειωτικός sēmeiōtikos, "observant of signs") is a field of semiotics and biology that studies the prelinguistic meaning-making, biological interpretation processes, production of signs and codes and communication processes in the biological realm.

Biosemiotics integrates the findings of biology and semiotics and proposes a paradigmatic shift in the scientific view of life, in which semiosis (sign process, including meaning and interpretation) is one of its immanent and intrinsic features. — Wikipedia - Biosemiosis

None of my ancestors ever owned another human being and the longest period I spent in the United States was January, 1993. — Vera Mont

I wasn't aware you thought these problems are only relevant in the US. On the other hand, that's not even relevant. You are contributing to the problem just by the comments you make here. Trying to resolve conflict with large groups of people while treating them contempt doesn't work, except, I guess, in war.

I may be the worst, but I'm never passionate. — Vera Mont

I don't think you're the worst, but then I don't think Trump supporters are either. I think you are both equally responsible for the mess we find ourselves in.

If the sane people have no interest - more to the point, if they feel bereft of agency - they leave the field wide open to fanatics, lunatics and criminals. — Vera Mont

You obviously feel very strongly about this. One might even say you are full of passionate intensity.

What I said prior was the average person has no interest in governance or politics. How did you come up with the opposite given the stats? — L'éléphant

I was surprised by how high the percentages are. Beyond that, I don't think the activities shown are a good measure of interest. My wife has a strong interest in these types of issues and she hasn't done any of them. I do too, and the only one I've done is contribute to a campaign. I don't think we are unusual in that regard.

He argues that they’re either both morally permissible despite society finding sexual assault far more distasteful and violative than murder or they’re both impermissible. — Captain Homicide

I'm not even sure what "morally permissible" means in this context. Does it mean that in my judgment I shouldn't do it, or that no one should do it? Does it mean it should be illegal? I'm a libertarian when it comes to this sort of thing. It certainly shouldn't be illegal to depict any of these things. I'd also say it's not morally impermissible for someone to perform these kinds of acts in video games, but if I knew you were, it would likely change my opinion of you. I never have played video games much and not at all since my kids were in school. When I did, I sometimes killed people without remorse. I don't think I could bring myself to commit rape or pedophilia.

We evolved to get excited in critical situations. Stress hormones like cortisol and adrenaline are released. Our blood pressure and heart rate increase. We start breathing faster. Even our blood flow changes. — praxis

Yes, that's known as the fight or flight response, not the critical thinking response.

Nuff said.

The original Star Trek TV shows contrasted with the Next Generation Star Trek TV shows is an excellent example of what the change in education did to our culture. Captain Kirk is the John Wayne of outer space and Picard is the "Group Think" generation. — Athena

I don't know whether to laugh at your use of Star Trek as a sign of cultural disintegration or...well... laugh even harder at your selection of Kirk over Picard. I wish @TimeLine were here.

Gentlemen, don't fight here, this is the war room. — fdrake

Just wanted you to know I did recognize and appreciate your reference.

Worse, self righteous. — DingoJones

Ah, yes. I believe you sang that song before:

Lol, well come on. He NEVER misses an opportunity to express his self righteous condemnation of other posters... — DingoJones

Well, geez, I have to be true to my calling.

How mean spirited of both of you! — universeness

I guess you don't understand the meaning of the phrase.

critical thinking could be handy in critical (fearful or otherwise emotional) situations — praxis

Your two uses of "critical" have different meanings. Critical situations require calm to address effectively. Tea is not required, though.

By all means, do so. I remain selective. — Vera Mont

The best lack all conviction, while the worst
Are full of passionate intensity. — Cliche with literary pretentions

We should only think critically when emotionally balanced and calm? — praxis

I said "ideally."

It seems to me that critical thinking would be particularly useful when we're upset and therefore may not be thinking clearly. Rationality alleviates irrationality, in other words. — praxis

In my experience, the calm comes first, then the rationality. Actually, that's not true. They come together.

I certainly think much could be done to encourage people to think for themselves, and even more can be done to make factual, useful information generally available. — Vera Mont

Yes, but then much could also be done to build a sense of common purpose among our fellow citizens. As I noted, we can do something right now - treat people with respect.

I feel insulted by your wording "mythical society" and that does not advance a discussion of truth. — Athena

I can see why you would disagree with me, but why would you be insulted by that? My point is that the society based on dignity and independent thinking you seem to think existed enslaved and oppressed people. It certainly didn't treat black people with dignity. Does independent, critical thinking lead to slavery? That would be ironic.

We are fully supporting "the enslavement and oppression of human beings" today. Only today it is not exactly a human that is oppressing us, but technology. — Athena

There are many bad things to be said about the way our society is running these days, but I find it hard to swallow that there was somehow some golden age in the past when things were better, and, Oh, by the way - we kept people in slavery. People owned people.

Well just out of curiosity, what is the proper emotion to motivate critical thinking? — praxis

I think ideally it requires emotional equilibrium and calm.

Critical thinking can be motivated by fear, hatred, contempt, love, envy, and many other emotions and combinations of emotions. — praxis

I think your idea of critical thinking and mine are different.

I also want to use your iconic thumb. — javi2541997

It is in the public domain. Actually, it's probably not, but you're welcome to use it.

To fix violence we need a culture of empowerment. Hate makes you feel powerful. A gun in your hands murdering people that you despise makes you feel GOOD. But if you already have success, power, and basic respect from the people around you, it doesn't. Hate is the easy go to for the person starved of empowerment. When there are less starving people to sell it to, it doesn't take hold as easily. — Philosophim

I'm not sure that I agree with your understanding of the appeal of guns, but I do agree that a lot of the motivation for our troubles is economic. The Democratic Party used to be the party of working people. We've lost that.

My older books including grade school books have much to say about human dignity, and we used public education to advance a culture that embraced independent thinking, respect, and human dignity. — Athena

My response to this kind of argument is always the same - this mythical society focused on dignity you describe allowed and supported the enslavement and oppression of human beings. It was only after the events you describe ended that things changed in a significant way. Thomas Jefferson kept slaves.

A house doesn't collapse because of its occupants' "values" but mostly from a combination of shoddy construction, prolonged disrepair and entropy. Likewise, "our institutions are failing" because the macro structural imbalances, of which they are functions, are imploding as the ramifications of those imbalances accelerate. — 180 Proof

Without irony I say - I think it's simpler here in the US - the Republicans did it.

Do you see that as evidence that people aren't interested in political issues. It seems just the opposite to me.

I think you have big expectations on people... what a terrible mistake. — javi2541997

Democracy won't work without expecting a lot from citizens.

A true democracy - of the people, by the people, for the people, does not understand guns and gun powder, it understands education and even in its absence gets its way around by trying to understand the situation and coming to a non-violent and peaceful decision. — Beena

I don't think that's necessarily true. A lot of conservative gun owners I know have no trouble with what they consider reasonable gun control. On the other hand, many of them consider rights of gun ownership as important as freedom of speech. I don't go that far, but I can understand their reasoning.

As a registered Democrat, I think the problem is that the Democratic Party has played this wrong. A certain level of gun ownership in the US is fully established. It's strongly endorsed by the Supreme Court, so it's part of the Constitution. A large percentage of the people support it. Putting all our money on heavy restrictions doesn't get us anywhere but alienates people who otherwise belong in the Democratic Party.

People can share a common purpose without respecting each other. — praxis

I doubt that's true. I'll think about it some more.

The problem with uncritical thinkers and a desire for purpose is that they’re easily lead by people with divergent purposes. — praxis

As I see it, the criticism of "them" I've seen in this thread hasn't constituted critical thinking. Seems more motivated by fear, hatred, and contempt, just like we accuse them of.

I never said it can be done at all. — Vera Mont

That makes this whole exercise beside the point except as a hell-in-a-handbasket kvetch.

I wish you all the success in the world! — Vera Mont

Oh, good. Thanks for that enthusiastic endorsement.

As I noted previously - No further questions; I rest my case.

I banned invicta for persistently low quality posts even after multiple warnings and a one-week suspension. — Jamal

I appreciate that you have started using the suspension prior to banning in some cases.