I'm not there. — Tate

You not here either.

Dans son regard absent
Et son iris absinthe
Tandis que Marilou s'amuse à faire des vol-
-utes de sèches au menthol
Entre deux bulles de comic strip
Tout en jouant avec le zip
De ses Levi's
Je lis le vice
Et je pense à Carroll
(Lewis)

Dans son regard absent
Et son iris absinthe
Tandis que Marilou s'évertue à faire des vol-
-utes de sèches au menthol
Entre deux bulles de comic strip
Tout en jouant avec son zip
À entrebâiller ses Levi's
Dans son regard absent
Et son iris absinthe, dis je
Je lis le vice
De Baby Doll
Et je pense à Lewis
Carroll

Dans son regard absent
Et son iris absinthe
Quand crachent les enceintes
De la sono lançant
Accords de quartes et de quintes,
Tandis que Marilou s'esquinte
La santé, s'éreinte
À s'envoyer en l'air,
Lorsqu'en un songe absurde
Marilou se résorbe,
Que son coma l'absorbe
En pratiques obscures
Sa pupille est absente,
Et son iris, absinthe,
Sous ses gestes se teinte
D'extases sous jacentes

À son regard le vice
Donne un coté salace
Un peu du bleu lavasse
De sa paire de Levi's
Tandis qu'elle exhale
Un soupir au menthol
Ma débile mentale
Perdue dans son exil
Physique et cérébral
Joue avec le métal
De son zip et l'atol
De corail apparaît
Elle s'y coca colle
Un doigt qui en arrêt
Au bord de la corolle
Est pris près du calice
Du vertige d'Alice
De Lewis
Carroll

Lorsqu'en songes obscurs
Marilou se résorbe
Que son coma l'absorbe
En des rêves absurdes
Sa pupille s'absente,
Et son iris absinthe
Subrepticement se teinte
De plaisir en attente
Perdu dans son exil
Physique et cérébral
Un à un elle exhale
Des soupirs fébriles
Parfumés au menthol
Ma débile mentale
Fait teinter le métal
De son zip
Et, Narcisse,
Elle pousse le vice
Dans la nuit bleue lavasse
De sa paire de Levi's
Arrivée au pubis,
De son sexe corail
Écartant la corolle
Prise au bord du calice
De Vertigo, Alice
S'enfonce jusqu'à l'os
Au pays des malices
De Lewis
Carroll

Pupilles absente,
Iris absinthe,
Baby Doll
Écoute ses idoles:
Jimi Hendrix, Elvis
Presley, T-Rex, Alice
Cooper, Lou Reed, Les Rol-
-ling Stones elle en est folle
Là d'ssus cette narcisse
Se plonge avec délice
Dans la nuit bleue pétrole
De sa paire de Levi's
Elle arrive au pubis
Et très cool au menthol
Elle se self-controle
Son petit orifice
Enfin poussant le vice
Jusqu'au bord du calice
D'un doigt sex-symbol
S'écartant la corolle
Sur fond de rock and roll
S'égare mon Alice
Aux pays des malices
De Lewis
Carroll

In my solitude you haunt me
With reveries of days gone by
In my solitude you taunt me
With memories that never die

I sit in my chair
Filled with despair
There's no one could be so sad
With gloom everywhere
I sit and I stare
I know that I'll soon go mad

In my solitude
I'm praying
Dear Lord above
Send back my love

I sit in my chair
Filled with despair
There's no one could be so sad
With gloom everywhere
I sit and I stare
I know that I'll soon go mad

In my solitude
I'm praying
Dear Lord above
Send back my love

Sometimes I don't know where this dirty road is taking me
Sometimes i don't know the reason why
So i guess i'll keep gamblin'
Lots of booze and lots of ramblin'
It's easier than just waitin' around to die

Well one-time friends I had a Ma
I even had a Pa
He beat her with a belt once cause she cried
She told him to take care of me
She headed down to Tennessee
It's easier than just a -waitin' around to die

I came of age and found a girl
In a Tuscaloosa bar
She cleaned me out and she hit it on the sly
Well i tried to kill the pain
I bought some wine I hopped a train
Seemed easier than just waitin' around to die

Then a friend said he knew where
Some easy money was
We robbed a man and brother did we fly
But the posse caught up with me
Drug me back to muskogee
Now it's two long years, waitin' around to die

Now i'm out of prison
I got me a friend at last
He don't steal or cheat or drink or lie
His name is codeine
And he's the nicest thing i've seen
And together we're gonna wait around to die

Excuses are easy to find.

Sounds like a bunch of inflamatory nonsense meant to vilify the political enemy. — Tzeentch

TBH, that was my first reaction. Now i think there's indeed an undercurrent of nihilism there, in the cultural background, though it does not follow that the Putin clique is irrational. The rationality of it is that, when people believe you're a mean nihilist intent on destroying the world, they fear you more.

Yet the real issue is to have a robust efficient and up-to-date chemical industry. And that, as is the problem for many Third World countries, isn't so easy to create. — ssu

Morocco has got that infrastructure with their Office Chérifien des Phosphates, OCP. They are working with Nigeria and others to expand southward. The development of African agriculture is in their strategic interest.

the complete annihilation of the enemy's civilians and military.
— Olivier5

Pundits have commented that wholesale destruction is what they did in Syria. It's the only thing that works for them. — Tate

I've read an oped from an obscure French philosopher a few days ago, about the streak of nihilism pervading through modern Russian history. I thought the case was a bit too dark and overblown, but now it resonates.

Here it is, for what it's worth:
---------


The most striking thing about the Ukrainian conflict is the strategy adopted by the Russians. It is characterized by a deliberate intention of annihilation, of systematic and radical destruction. Surely all wars involve damage to the enemy; but they are most often linked to military objectives.

In the case of the Russian aggression, one has the impression of an enterprise of total annihilation of the territory to be conquered, civilians and soldiers, men, buildings and things. Mariupol, Bucha and many other martyred cities tragically illustrate this desire. As has often been pointed out, this is a strategy already adopted in Chechnya and Syria.

Usually, the conqueror aims to appropriate the resources of the attacked country, which leads him to preserve them as much as possible, in his own interest. Here, on the other hand, one has the feeling that the expected gain does not matter at all. Destruction is not a means but an end in itself; and moreover it applies to the aggressor as much as to the attacked.

Nihilistic thinking as a principle of war

The damage caused to Russia by the war (effects of sanctions, withdrawal of foreign investors, accession to NATO of hitherto neutral countries, strengthening of European unity and defense, etc.) is far greater than the potential benefit of conquering the Donbass. But that damage, great as it is, doesn't seem to matter.

How to explain such an attitude? One word imposes itself on the spectacle of this militarily irrational, economically aberrant, politically catastrophic war: nihilism. We know that this concept was born in Russia in the 1860s; and it is often associated with a marginal movement of opposition to the Tsarist regime, which quickly disappeared in favor of the Marxist-Leninist protest that would lead to the October 1917 revolution.

But this representation is erroneous. The writer Ivan Turgenev (1818-1883), in Fathers and Sons , defines the nihilist as someone “who does not want to recognize anything” , “who does not respect anything” and “does not bow before any authority” . The writer-philosopher Alexandre Herzen (1812-1870), in an article from 1869, sees in it “a spirit of critical purification” ; he associates the phenomenon of nihilism with the Russian mentality as such: "Nihilism is the natural, legitimate, historical fruit of this negative attitude towards life which Russian thought and Russian art had adopted from its first steps after Peter the Great. He adds :“This negation must finally lead to the negation of oneself."

Nihilism in the nature of the Russian soul

The analysis will be taken up by Fiodor Dostoyevsky (1821-1881), who writes, speaking of the Russians: “We are all nihilists. The philosopher Nicolas Berdiaev (1874-1948), a century later, confirms it: nihilism had its source in the Russian soul and in the nature of the pro-Slavic faith. It was “the photographic negative of Russian apocalyptic sentiment”.

Albert Camus (1913-1960), in L'Homme révolté , clarifies its contours. He detects there “the feeling, which we will find even in Bakunin and the revolutionary socialists of 1905, that suffering is regenerative”. The literary critic Vissarion Bielinski (1811-1848), one of the representatives of this movement, affirms that it is necessary to destroy reality to affirm what one is: “Negation is my God. »

One gives to nihilism, writes Camus, “the intransigence and passion of faith” . This is why “the struggle against creation will be merciless and without morality; the only salvation is in extermination”. According to political theorist Mikhail Bakunin (1814-1876), “the passion for destruction is a creative passion”. Sergei Nechayev (1847-1882), his companion, “pushed the coherence of nihilism as far as possible”: henceforth “violence will be turned against everyone in the service of an abstract idea” ; the leaders of the revolution must destroy not only the class enemies, but also their own militants, if they deviate from the imposed line.

An irrational approach ready for all sacrifices

Bakunin contributed as much as Marx to the Leninist doctrine – and therefore to the Soviet ideology with which Putin is imbued. Through this filiation, nihilism continues to inspire the current leaders of Russia. From nihilism to communism, and from the latter to pan-Slavism which motivates the invasion of Ukraine, it is the same abstract idea which justifies a desire for "purifying" destruction, the bias of a clean slate, of apocalypse as a political and religious ideal, of nothingness set up as a principle of action.

This is why the nuclear threat agitated by the Russian leaders should not be taken lightly. From the annihilation of the other to the universal annihilation which implies the annihilation of oneself, the border is thin. Nihilism, Camus concludes, "closely intertwined with the movement of a fallen religion, ends in terrorism". Among all the heirs of nihilism, "the taste for sacrifice coincides with the attraction of death"; “Murder is identified with suicide” .

How to deal with such an ideology? The answer is not evident. But we must in any case avoid considering Putin and his henchmen as rational conquerors, who would calculate the benefits and the costs of an aggression, like Hitler. There is a relationship between the nihilistic ideology that marked Russia in the 19th century and this way of waging war. Like any faith, it is ready for all sacrifices, including its own.

It is akin to jihadist radicalism, with which it shares many modes of action and thought. The only difference between one and the other is a difference of scale: Putin's terrorism is state terrorism, and of a state which has a nuclear arsenal which could cause the annihilation of humanity. Never before have we been faced with such a situation. In this sense, the Ukrainian war is an absolute novelty in history.

François Galichet , honorary professor at the University of Strasbourg
https://www.lemonde.fr/idees/article/2022/06/23/ukraine-il-y-a-une-filiation-entre-l-ideologie-nihiliste-qui-a-marque-la-russie-au-xixe-siecle-et-cette-facon-de-mener-la-guerre_6131725_3232.html

The Baltic states are NATO members but NATO isn't committed to defending them? — Tate

Yes. See @ssu more detailed exposition of the issue above.

My understanding is that defending them ie stopping a conventional Russian attack on them would be next to impossible. Not enough strategic depth, it's too narrow.

And if they try to defend themselves, chances are their cities will be flattened like Mariupol. The current RF preferred tactic as seen in Ukraine is to seek the complete annihilation of the enemy's civilians and military.

Or likely that fertilizer plants in Africa would be dangerous competitors to European fertilizer plants. — ssu

Of course. EU's generosity has its limits. They won't fund the growth of foreign firms that would become competitors to their own industries.

Interestingly, Morocco is set to consolidate its position on the fertilizer market in Africa. Building on their natural phosphate deposits they are exporting to sub-saharian Africa but also building fertilizer plants there, and even contributing to agronomic research and extension about optimal fertilizer dosages etc.

See this analysis (pardon the analyst jargony phrases à la 'nexus weaponization' and his pro-western slant -- the data appears correct): https://www.mei.edu/publications/morocco-counters-russias-weaponization-food-energy-nexus

What's the complaint? — Tate

Supposedly, NATO serves little purpose to the Baltic states if they won't get protected by NATO from a Russian attack, so NATO should aim to defend the Baltic states from a Russian attack.

Estonian Prime Minister: Estonia would be 'wiped from map' under existing NATO plans
by Marielle Vitureau, Courrier International

A few days before the NATO summit in Madrid, the Estonian Prime Minister, Kaja Kallas, expressed concern about the defense plans for the Baltic countries of the Atlantic Alliance, which, according to her, assumes that Tallinn will be completely destroyed.

Concern reigns in the Estonian capital since the punching remarks against NATO by the head of government, Kaja Kallas. “The Alliance's current defense plans for the Baltic states are to let them be invaded, then liberate them 180 days later. Estonia would be wiped off the map and the old town of Tallinn completely destroyed”, revealed the Prime Minister, quoted by ERR, the Estonian public media .

In an interview given to the Financial Times and relayed by ERR , Kaja Kallas specifies that “if we compare the size of Ukraine to that of the Baltic countries, this will mean the total destruction of our countries and our cultures”.

Since the annexation of Crimea by Russia in 2014, the Baltic countries have been worried. Four months of war in Ukraine have further heightened their fears. Lithuania, Estonia and Latvia have therefore sent NATO a “joint proposal to obtain additional troops and permanent divisional command centers in each country”, indicates ERR .

“The current device is not working”

For five years, multinational Alliance battalions have been stationed in each of the three countries bordering Russia for the purpose of deterrence. But, as Kaja Kallas points out, “everyone sees that this tripping device [the enemy] doesn't really work”.

Kaja Kallas's remarks provoked a certain bitterness in the political class of another Baltic country, Lithuania. For Eva-Maria Liimets, the former Minister of Foreign Affairs, “confidential plans should not be made public”. But they are appreciated by others in Lithuania. Laurynas Kasciunas, the deputy at the head of the Committee on Defense and National Security, believes that Kaja Kallas' claims are there "to raise the political temperature" .

Four months after the start of the war in Ukraine , the Baltic countries are strengthening their security in all directions by considerably increasing their defense budget. In these countries, NATO remains the guarantor of security. After the declarations of many politicians saying they are ready to defend every centimeter of the territory of the Alliance, the Baltic countries are awaiting very concrete decisions from the next NATO summit in Madrid, on 29 and 30 June.

Ah okay. Not much on workers rights in there, but in any case, it is true that Ukraine doesn't have a good-enough record to enter the EU, on this issue and others.

What?

Oh wait, Ukraine was very much on track to join this list which is they they started to fuck over their workers long before this war started, a process initiated by Western 'hero' Zelensky himself. — Streetlight

Got a link?

Global Rights Index

2021

About the Global Rights Index
The ITUC
The International Trade Union Confederation (ITUC) is a confederation of national trade union centres, each of which links trade unions in that particular country. It is the global voice of the world’s working people. The ITUC represents 200 million workers in 163 countries and has 332 national affiliates.

The Global Rights Index
The ITUC Global Rights Index depicts the world’s worst countries for workers by rating 149 countries on a scale from 1 to 5+ on the degree of respect of workers’ rights. Violations are recorded each year from April to March. Information on violations of workers’ rights in countries is published throughout the year in the ITUC Survey.

Nothing is absolute, all is relative.

How's Australia doing? — Noble Dust

According to the International Trade Union Confederation (ITUC) Global Rights Index 2021 (https://www.globalrightsindex.org/en/2021/countries/aus), Australia has the same rating as the Russian Federation: 3 - 'Regular violations of rights'.

All countries rated 1 ('Sporadic violations of rights') are in the EU, bare two (Iceland and Norway). Most countries rated 2 ('Repeated violations of rights') are in the EU as well.

The US is rated 4 - 'Systematic violations of rights', which seems fair.

Street is full if hatred and prejudice. I know that. I am also aware he's just trolling here. I'm just in the mood for shooting down trolls, that's all.

And you know of a non-EU country doing any better? Let me guess, Australia?

FYI, in English, to lie is to willingly misrepresent a state of affairs, which is exactly what you and Isaac do day in and day out. Straw man after straw man. Don't go all "define lying" on me. Rather ask yourself why you think you needed to lie about this article. What triggered that? And also, to whom are you really lying? To me, or to you?

Even if you decide that an article in BS and propaganda, it does not follow that a good strategy is to lie about it.

I repeat: the EU is the only place on earth that takes workers rights seriously. Your hatred of Europe is not fact-based. It is simply prejudiced. Seek help.

Many anglo-saxons hate the EU, so I guess I shouldn't be surprised. They hate Brussels with a passion manufactured by Murdock.

And yet it's the only place on earth that defends workers rights.

I've edited it. You are insulting yourself.

In exactly the same way as your whole contribution to this thread can be paraphrased to read: "I love Putin".

You guys keep building straw men, over and over again. Ask yourself why you need to lie about what this article is saying, why you need to deform reality all the time. You're too shallow to deal with the truth.

The truth is that the EU never forced anyone to join, that any member nation is free to leave it anytime, that 80% of Georgians want to join because they rightly see it as a guarantor of peace and development, and that it's the only damn place on earth that defends workers rights.

Georgia's European future is on hold
Unlike Ukraine and Moldova, Georgia will have to wait to obtain EU candidate status according to the opinion issued by the European Commission.

By Faustine Vincent
Published on June 23, 2022

There were two winners, and one loser. In issuing an opinion on Friday, June 17, granting Ukraine and Moldova European Union (EU) candidate status, the European Commission has paved the way for their accession.

But Georgia, which also has aspirations of joining the EU, will have to wait. The small Caucasus country must first implement reforms – reducing political polarization, strengthening the independence of the judiciary and fighting corruption – before it can claim that status, the Commission said.

Ukraine, Georgia and Moldova all applied for membership shortly after the Russian invasion of Ukraine on February 24. It is now up to the 27 Member States, meeting at a summit in Brussels on June 23 and 24, to study the Commission's opinion and to decide whether or not to grant these three former Soviet republics EU candidate status.

However, the European Commission did not close the door on Georgia, which fought a five-day war with Russia in August 2008. It recommended that the country be offered a "European perspective," meaning the potential right to membership, even if that has no legal value. "The door is wide open. It is up to Georgia now to take the necessary steps to move forward," said Commission President Ursula von der Leyen.

As far as the fight against corruption is concerned – a critical issue in both Moldova and Ukraine – Tbilisi has nevertheless made significant progress. In its 2021 report on corruption, the NGO Transparency International ranked Georgia 45th out of 180, compared to 105th for Moldova and 122nd for Ukraine.

The ruling party in Tbilisi, Georgian Dream, said it was happy to have a concrete road map but found it regrettable that the Commission did not support candidate status now. On June 17, Prime Minister Irakli Garibashvili had also welcomed "the historic decision to grant Georgia a European perspective." He added, "We will work with Brussels to implement all the requirements and we will obtain candidate status."

The European Commission's opinion is a setback for Georgia, where more than 80% of the population supports EU membership. About 120,000 people holding European and Georgian flags marched in Tbilisi on Monday to demand EU membership. Several pro-European organizations and all the opposition parties had called for a "march for Europe" to "prove the commitment of the Georgian people to their European choice and to Western values."

This demonstration, unprecedented in its scale, also aimed to protest the government, which stands accused of having deliberately failed to obtain EU candidate status. "Europe is a historic choice and aspiration for Georgians, for which all generations have made sacrifices," said the organizers in their statement. [...]

https://www.lemonde.fr/en/international/article/2022/06/23/georgia-s-european-future-is-on-hold_5987790_4.html

I think you must mean 'live and let die.' And I'll leave you to spot what's wrong with that. — unenlightened

And I leave you to spot what's wrong with putting words into other people's mouth.

Okay, point well taken.

I cannot disagree with your claim that I am aggressive without appearing aggressive to you — unenlightened

Rather, you cannot claim that taking side in this particular conflict is problematic, without in fact taking some sort of side. One thing is to not take side -- that I can respect as internally logical, though I can't understand it --, quite another to disagree with the right or inclination of other folks to take side, or to find it problematic. That'd be normative, therefore aggressive.

How about: There's nothing wrong with taking side, and nothing wrong with not taking side? Live and let live.

You are on the side of those who think that taking side is morally wrong. As opposed to just saying: 'I take no side but others are welcome to do as they wish'; you are an aggressive neutralist.

Obviously, intellectual pursuits are not for @Tzeentch... :-)

I didn't say I was comfortable with war, but with making a moral distinction between an aggressor and his victim. That much should be obvious.
— Olivier5

You said it in response to my post not particularly addressed to you, pointing out that to make that distinction was to enter the war. which you did not argue against or contradict. You have joined the war, you complain at being badly treated, and you are comfortable with that. Your comfort is no comfort to me. — unenlightened

You are trying to confuse yourself, and it seems to work out.

In truth I have NOT joined the war just because I post my opinion here, not anymore than YOU or anyone else have joined the war by posting here. TPF is not Dombass, and that is a fact which no amount of blah blah blah will ever erase. Your neutrality is fake, an aggressive neutrality, inasmuch as you condemn people taking side, and that is in itself a form of taking side.

LOL. You're no logician.

Can't stop yourself to make it personal can you? — Benkei

Oh the irony! This one is a real gem...

Okay so @Tzeentch is obviously not interested in talking substance, @Xtrix has left the thread for good for the tenth time, and @baker takes refuge in paranoia.

Supporting Putin is bad for karma, I guess.

the central point of Mearsheimer's — Tzeentch

Isn't that precisely that we should take Putin's rhetoric seriously when he says that pushing back against NATO motivates his special military operation?

The strawman you presented as though Mearsheimer argued that Putin was incapable of lying (which is obviously idiotic) is case in point. — Tzeentch

Try and follow what's actually said. Straw men are for losers. I am saying that Mearsheimer argues that we should take Putin's words seriously (at least those he cherrypicked) because Putin is not in the habit of lying. That's wishful thinking, not the kind of serious argument I was expecting from such a renown scholar.

The symmetry is between the way you see it and the way your opponents see it. But to be comfortable with war is assuredly to be a good long way from it. One may have to choose a side, one may have to fight, but to find it comfortable is unconscionable. — unenlightened

I didn't say I was comfortable with war, but with making a moral distinction between an aggressor and his victim. That much should be obvious.

so you can avoid talking substance, just like ↪Olivier5. — Tzeentch

Where does that come from?

Is it your interpretation that Mearsheimer's theory hinges on whether or not Putin is capable of lying? — Tzeentch

Yes

He lost me when he argued that Putin doesn't lie. How naïve, or wedged to one's narrative one needs to be to make such a blatantly false statement? Putin told us before Feb 24 that he had no intention to attack Ukraine. He's perfectly capable of lying.

Assigning blame is taking sides. — unenlightened

I'm personally quite comfortable with taking side, in this case and in many others where there's a clear aggressor. There's no moral symmetry that I can see here.