The Revolutionary War might have been 150 years ago, but we have seen and we we continue to see racism systematic in the US, I believe the real civil war happened between 1955 and 1970. It was the legal version of the Civil War, it changed the way we do business, which for a capitalistic society means the way it will act.

As I stated symbols are important...archive the statue of Robert E. Lee to a swamp where such things belong, and not the middle of a city.

Why? Because I am trying to present a coherent view...one which you will not reply to....you're the troll baby.

The truth is the truth regardless of how hard you try to doge it.

No, it is just, That's why we have laws like Affirmative Action, to attempt to offset past injustices.

Never said anything about money.

I never said it would end all bigotry, but I believe it is a step in the right direction. Symbols are important, and the symbol of Robert E Lee, as the head of the Confederate force in rebellion is still a potent one, it just cost some one their life.

You want me to answer what kind of reparations, and I would say whatever we can do to make sure that people are being treated fairly, even if that is somewhat to the detriment of the majority.

By whom? People who never had anything to do with past injustices? Guess what, that would itself be unjust. So no, no debt needs to be repaid.

By the Nation, specifically to the black people who suffered under white oppression for 350 years...maybe you missed that. Black people, Hispanics, women, and others continue to suffer under a bigotry that is has been the rule not the exception in US

Which are inherently racist and counter-productive.

It's the law in the US.

So, are you in favor of removal of Robert E Lee's statue or are you suggesting that it be archived in some manner?

Do we have emotive beliefs? Or are beliefs a product of the understanding, firm judgments we accept, where emotions form the motivation for exercising , the power behind asserting one's beliefs?

No, I don't agree. I think that a debt is owed, It needs to be repaid, Laws such as affirmative action, which ought to be redundant are still needed. There are a lot of bigoted people in US. Just drop by your local service club on a Friday night and listen.

I don't doubt David Duke's remark to Trump yesterday. He tweeted:

I would recommend you take a good look in the mirror & remember it was White Americans who put you in the presidency, not radical leftists. https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/896420822780444672

Trump has yet to make a direct statement regarding the White Supremacists, sure his minions have said he denounced these bigots, but he has yet to respond directly. Apparently he looked in the mirror.

Reparations in some form or the other are needed if we want to see subsequent generations to become freed from the bigotry that is still so ingrained in our culture. Removal of the statues of historic oppressors is only one small step.

As I define "soul" it makes sense, it is what causes life, the vital principal....but I can't force feed that notion to you, either it makes sense to you or not.

I argue that animated means ensouled. The ancient Greeks used the word alive to mean ensouled, and inanimate is dead...so while you say

the a material soul has never been discovered or recorded.

I see life, and hence the manifestation of souls all around.

There is no way around the supposition that life evolved from matter therefore life must be a potential property of matter. That is more than an assertion, it is the only possible way, unless you think Martians, or a Sky God came down and did it.

ts a nice idea Cav, but if the soul is natural, it would have been detected by now. There's just no chemical entity/human part that could escape sciences exhaustive means of detection.

We can pretty much tell animate from inanimate, but we don't know how matter became and continues to become animate, we can't even mimic it (Craig Venter has tried and tried). I lean towards a form of Panpsychism, since as far as I am concerned there is no way mind could have formed except from matter, and I think all matter in the right configuration has the potential for ensoulment.

I admire my parents, they lived through WWII. raised me helped put me through school, loved me, helped make me what I am. RIP

The ancients thought that soul is what differentiates animate from inanimate. So then a tree, a dog, an insect all have souls.

My understanding is that Plato thought the soul's divine spark lives on, but Aristotle (along with several of the Presocratics) thought the soul dies when the body dies.

The Old Testament doesn't support the immortality of the soul, but several of the Eastern Religions seem to support it.

I like the idea of the soul as an animating force, that which makes something come alive. Loosely, a work of art can have soul, a good meal with friends, music, my dog Sidney, a culture all can have soul as an animating force.

At death, who knows, maybe the spark goes on, but I don't believe it is individuated, even in some religions after death the individual is absorbed in a vision of god.

I've read that the NK plan to fire 4 missiles towards Guam. They study the US well enough to know that the US will react, but not by starting a war, but perhaps by trying to shoot down the 4 missiles. NK's taunt seems to be directed at US's highly taunted Thaad system. US military claims great success with the system, I think we may have a chance to see if it does as well in real action, not as a carefully set up test. Of course there is a question if NK can even launch 4 missiles successful.

The NK is good at embarrassing the US. It captured the Pueblo way back in the 60's and we negotiated the release of the crew who were tortured. It took a year of negotiation and NK kept the boat as a trophy. In 1969 NK shot down EC-121 over the sea of Japan killing all 31 aboard. Nixon staged a show of strength but he did not more than that.

If NK shoots any missiles toward Guam and US (or its surrogate Japan) do not make an effort to disrupt the test, I think they will consider that they have demonstrated our impotence, not just to them self but also to China & Russia.

Lacan's concept of the real, is how a child experiences the world immediately within a context , this immediacy is lost (for the most part) with the achievement of language, which mediates our experience of the world. Language enables the child to begin to understand the 'symbolic'.

So, then perhaps alienation from the immediacy and the intimacy which it experienced pre-linguistically. The real is not lost, we have become unconscious of it, it is still there, just unable to speak.

He has some very intricate symbolic expression and complexes, but yes he talks about maternal caretakers (but that gets away from the fairy tale)

I think he would say that his three registers or orders: the 'real,' the 'symbolic', and the 'mirror'/imaginary are how all psyches ordinarily come to interpret the world

I am not sure how far he would go beyond that. Norms are diverse, and perhaps how norms evolve or emerge, and how society structures of norms might be appropriate for his analysis.

Freud's system was very masculine, even though women provided his deepest insights, Lacan in rethinking Freud still has a masculine streak, just not as bad as Freud. There have been some attempts at a feminist rereading of Lacan, but I have not read any of the books, just some articles.

2.9k
↪Nils Loc Cinderella, Snow White, and Sleeping Beauty are all similar to the myth of Psyche and Eros (Eros' mother Venus is the wicked queen/evil stepmother/malevolent fairy.)

If I remember correctly, none of these characters had living mothers. Freud's & Lacan's psychological systems revolve around the desire for the mother. Lacan changed Freud's Oedipal analysis because of the mother problem. Lacan thought that both male & female babies, identified with and desired the mother, that both male & female infants feel a sense of castration (anxiety...leading to freedom) due to their natural separation from the mother.


I'm not familiar with your version of Venus, I thought she was Aphrodite goddess of love, beauty...and Eros, her son by Ares.

I expect North Korea will continue to raise its theoretic, try to play Trump. Historically NK has always come out ahead in these exchanges. Such as their capture of the Pueblo. which took a year of negotiation to get the men, who were tortured, released. It also got the US to admit to having hostile intentions toward North Korea and it kept the ship as a trophy.

↪Cavacava

"If you have assumed causality is necessary, you have already assumed god."

Brian:
This seems too good to be true. Is it true that if we assume the existence of causality in general (which, incidentally, seems to be a common-sense view), and trace it back, "God exists" is the necessary conclusion? So then, non-theists necessarily hold that causality is unreal?

No the anti-thesis is that causes are necessarily contingent, only probabilities, contingent events that could have always been otherwise, that's all that is available to us.

Not into the big 5.

The following from Bruce Fink's book on Lacan:

it is not so much that the individual in questions 'wants' to eat, for example, but that it is uncontrollable, uncontainable

For Lacan it is a question of desire versus drive (which is thoughtless), where the drive cuts though the dialectic of desire, and desire 'is put into effect (or activated or affected) in the drive"

To binge is to give in or up on desire, which causes guilt, reinforced by one's version of what one thinks is expected, which leads to bulimia or anorexia, in an endless cycle.

You also should understand that what is considered healthy, and sane is up for debate, and not agreed about by everyone.

Fine, but when it can lead to death or an inability to go outside or other hurtful behavior, I think we as society need to ask wtf.

The question is why perfection or the compulsive need for order is demonstrative of bulimia. If many who suffer from bulimia also demonstrate similar compulsions then why is it this case?

I still feel like you're implying that neuroticism, which is simply sensitivity to negative emotions, is in itself problematic... is blindness to negative emotions preferable? It's basically shy people.

The point has to do with intensities. A shy person, is very different from someone who is agoraphobic, who can't leave the house because they are deeply afraid. People who experience high intensity neurosis don't behave normatively, and some of them can pose a threat to themselves.

I don't follow your statement that Bulimia is caused by orderliness, "like a perfectionism, and high disgust sensitivity." Why do you think this is the case. Traditionally anorexia and bulimia have been thought of as symptoms characteristics of a kind of neurosis displayed in binge-purge cycles.

The reason people seek help is because they are not happy with themselves, the way they are acting. Anorexia and bulimia are dangerous, someone can end up dead. I think we are all neurotic to a certain extent, but we are not all compelled by urges to hurt our self.

Cognitive Behavior Therapy is quick, cheap and it works to the extent that the symptoms vanish...which is 'good enough for government work' but it is not a causal explanation, also these problems may not be gone, they may morph into something else also bad.

The problem with psychotherapy (which is causal) is the length of time it takes, the cost, and I think, finding the therapist that has the right skills and right empathy.

That's interesting, what kind of treatment? Psychotherapy?

My understanding is that Cognitive Behavior Therapy is kinda standard today.

A question worth bringing up is to ask, why is it that we think that the ID or super-ego would have a sort of will of their own?

Because our will is not a discrete whole, it is fragmented by times, contexts, desires, moods, objects, others.... but we imagine our self one.

The anorexic is compelled not to eat or to bulimia by very strong urges, which they do not understand.

Why and how neurosis compels neurotics to act the way they act is what interested Freud and Lacan.

So Cava, what sense does it make to just sit back and allow the legitimate bribery of American government?

The US Constitution includes the right "to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.", this is the basis for the legitimacy of lobbying in the US. The following from Wikipedia:

The right to petition government for redress of grievances is the right to make a complaint to, or seek the assistance of, one's government, without fear of punishment or reprisals. The Article 44 of the Charter of Fundamental Rights of the European Union ensures the right to petition to the European Parliament.[1] The right can be traced back to the Basic Law for the Federal Republic of Germany,[2] the Bill of Rights 1689, the Petition of Right (1628), and Magna Carta (1215).

I think these rules need to be revisited, updated. I doubt the intent of the makers was to allow the time and expenses involved in Lobbying in the 21st Century. There is a sense to Lobbying when the government's bureaucracy (almost a government in itself) creates needless barriers, but I don't think people who crafted the "right of petition" envisioned the way 21st Century Lobbying has evolved.

Unfortunately I doubt that it will be revisited or updated. There are too many Lobbyists who would fight any such change.

The post-truth world has many facets, the only thing common and that we may be able to agree upon is what something cost. Money the medium of exchange talks in capitalistic societies. It separates fact from fiction in terms of valuation. We may not like what it costs but we can't disagree about what is being asked.

Renewable energy will become the dominant source of energy not because it is better for the environment, but because it will cost less than petrol & the other sources of energy it replaces. It will become a common sense decision. Utilities are trying to curtail this trend or at least take control over it but I don't think the trend towards renewal energy sources is stoppable.

Big Pharrma has already created the 'facts' of its own world of costs for medicines which it has achieved by pushing the maxim to the point of "whatever the market will bear" and beyond. Not just Epi-Pens but medications that can treat Opioid overdoses, and addiction, which are the largest source of fatalities for people under 50 in USA.

Martin Shkreli, the infamous pharmaceutical industry CEO responsible for hiking the cost of his company’s lifesaving drug from $13.50 to $750 overnight, once tweeted that “Every time a drug goes generic, I grieve.”

The common sense approach is to use generic drugs whenever possible, but Pharma knows how to play the system, to put issues in front of use of such lower cost substitutes to delay approval of generics drugs for as long as possible. And, you can't legally import drugs from overseas due to the FDA's fears about quality, which is BS.

Citizens in US pay crazy money for less than ideal healthcare, it's as if we accepted Pharma facts, its crazy rationale that can raise the cost of an Epi-Pen from $57.00 in 2007 to over $300 today.

In the post truth world, Big Pharma is a fire brand, it creates its own reality, which it protects by paying lobbyists.

More than 11,000 organizations spent $3.12 billion on[healthcare] lobbying the federal government in 2016

.

The US $17 trillion dollar plus economy is like an elephant, it moves along at its own pace. None of Trump's actions are responsible for the US's current cresting of economic strength, this is the remainder left over from Obama's 8 years in office. I don't expect to see much effect from Trumps actions on the economy until after 12 months, probably not for 18/24 months.

I don't doubt his policies will affect the economy, but I doubt they will be for the betterment of the majority. Trump's U.S. withdrawal from the Trans-Pacific Partnership, gave room for other nations launch 27 separate negotiations to undercut U.S. exporters, and US farmers around the country are already roiling.

The post truth world will stand or fail economically, common sense will prevail.

Former CNN announcer provides the "real news", as if.

If you have assumed causality is necessary, you have already assumed god.

Premise-1: Everything in the world has a cause.

The assumption then is that "the world"/nature/universe is uniform everywhere and will remain so into the future. Causes are only known by induction, they are not deductive, they are only contingently possible or probable.

Maybe negation is spacial

'a' doesn't seem to entail anything except itself,
but '-a' seems to entail 'a'
Does '-a' suggest a logical space.

f you act per convention because you think you ought to, there is normativity to your convention adherence. If your general outlook is that people should look to convention to discover goodness, righteousness, and error free living, you would be squashing the two concepts together to the point that you'd probably have difficulty pulling them apart.

Norms and conventions merge at points. The driver may speed because it is the norm, but the same person will stop at on a red light because this convention is self enforcing. The goal with conventions and norms is social equilibrium. establishing what "you think you ought to do" as part of the majority's social pattern, like stopping at a red light.

How norms evolve (or perhaps emerge) is not clear. Some social rules are complied to faster, and work better than others. I think the force of these types of rules is due to their ability to self enforce. It is in the general public interest that everyone stops at a red light, because violators risk accidents, rancor from others, as well as civil punishments.

Kant never tried to prove morality, he accepted that it is integral to society.

Is the unconscious a myth? Or a real and potent component of the psyche where words and memories are stored waiting to invade waking life?

Per Freud and Lacan, word similarity is something the unconscious plays with. Do you pay attention to Freudian slips as a window on the depths of the psyche?

Not a myth, more like a fantasy, Lacan, unlike Freud, thought the unconscious is linguistic but not like a structured grammatical language. A sea of referents, which are connected but not directly with each other rather by puns, anagrams, metaphors, desires, memories, history...

Slips are important in talk therapy. The conversations between analyst and analysand tend to brings out slips, which a trained therapist can use to help direct the therapy. The skill of the therapist is to make the right connections to direct the conversation.

Perhaps the difference between the speed limit as convention, and driving 10 miles over the speed limit as normative.

Sure

Do you think norms are part of the game or do you think they define the game?

A thread on normativity would potentially be pretty interesting. Is it like truth: can't do without it, but can't discover any conceptual scaffolding under it?
— Mongrel

Perhaps some form of game theory (or some other grammar) underwrites the "conceptual scaffolding".