It is circular reasoning. — schopenhauer1
Language evolved from a theory of other minds. — Harry Hindu
Drawing scribbles and making sounds with your mouth are just more complex forms of communicating your intentions and reading into others intentions. — Harry Hindu
99.85% does seem rather high, but I don't think it unreasonable to determine the majority of people have net bad lives. — Down The Rabbit Hole
"Nearly 1 in 2 people born in the UK in 1961 will be diagnosed with some form of cancer during their lifetime", "12.7% of all deaths registered in the UK in 2018 were from dementia and Alzheimer disease". — Down The Rabbit Hole
For me this all goes back to Aristotle's idea that a definition or understanding requires a genus and a specific difference. "Coffee machine" is "A machine" (genus) "that makes coffee" (specific difference). In order to understand a term we must understand how it is alike other things (genus) and how it is unlike the things it is alike (specific difference). — Leontiskos
I would say it is most likely the vast, vast, vast (perhaps 99.85%) of people born will, on balance, suffer more than they enjoy their life. — AmadeusD
Two thirds of adults globally (64%) report being happy: 14% very much so and 50% rather so. Countries with the highest proportion of adults considering themselves as very happy are Canada (29%), Australia, Saudi Arabia and India (28% each), Great Britain and the United States (27% each).
Which brings out again the falsehood of thinking there is one notion of colour to rule them all. — Banno
What do you think is the structure of real labour? — kudos
Not sure what you mean here but I think from the free energy perspective, information can be more or less equated with dynamics. In fact, some recent free energy papers have started using the phrase "Bayesian mechanics". Central to this is the fact that free energy minimization can be generalized to any kind of random dynamical system as first seen in the A free energy principle for a particular physics paper where Friston also goes through quantum, statistical and classical mechanics through this perspective. — Apustimelogist
From my perspective on quantum, subatomic particles have definite positions all the time (and when you zoom in), they just have random motion (the randomness less apparent as you coarse-grain). Heisenberg uncertainty is a property of the statistical distributiond regarding those particles. From my perspective, no point was talked past here. — Apustimelogist
I want to emphasize that I think all of the descriptions are "just models" or at least, none are any less so than others; but, they are all being applied to the same reality — Apustimelogist
Models, and any word meanings for that matter, are nothing above the cause and effect mediated by people's implicit neuronal processes that drive the generation of future experiences in the context of the past. The equations in our theories written down on paper and the words we physically say cannot actually do anything independently of the minds that generated them and do things with them; neither is there necessarily a determinate way of expressing models and theories which is not contextualized by what is deemed acceptable by people in the context of their cognitive abilities and neuronal architectures. Therefore, in this kind of view, minds and cognition are only as deep as our experiences and the momentary unfolding of their dynamics.
Well this role is taken on by Markov blankets but is much more general than what is implied by Patee. — Apustimelogist
Heisenberg uncertainty principle is referring to constraints on probability distributions regarding the behavior of statistical systems — Apustimelogist
Is your order, then, Ramsay-like an inevitable accident? Or is it something else? — tim wood
Are you aware I advocated the free energy principle and active inference a few posts ago? — Apustimelogist
Surely it would make more sense to spend your time elsewhere on this forum? — AmadeusD
I suspect schopenhauer1 regrets pulling you into the thread. — Leontiskos
You have proved yourself incapable of reading a simple response. AS always, proving you're not a serious person. It gets easier and easier. Maybe if you stopped behaving in a way that squarely fits th definition of trolling, you'd say something sensible. — AmadeusD
my guess is that anyone who holds it on purely intellectual grounds could be dissuaded in time. — Leontiskos
As I have said multiple times, many explanatory frameworks are important. — Apustimelogist
The point is though that such simulations as alluded in the first quote above should be possible in principle if we had the computational power, and able to reproduce all possible events of reality above the fidelity of its description. If all biological processes are composed of things like particles moving in space then this should be plausible. I don't see why not. — Apustimelogist
Its about the idea that in principle all of the possible information about reality is only attainable if it is maximally resolved, if it isn't coarse-grained, if details are not ignored. — Apustimelogist
What would you see as the adjudicating factors between the two conceptions? — Leontiskos
You pretend not to be involved in a discussion about language but your view hinges on your use of a single word. — Banno
This question addresses the subject of moral concern: actually living, present persons, n o t possible, future persons (which is AN's category mistake). — 180 Proof
That's like saying that a phone encodes the information passing down it. — Ludwig V
Biology is not reducible to physics because a living body, though it is a physical object, cannot be explained without reference to concepts that have no place in physics. — Ludwig V
What I was implying is that all of the events that led to the development of neuronal structure- whether on an evolutionary or developmental scale - can be in principle described purely in terms of particles and how they move in space and time. In principle, such a thing could be simulated using a complete model of fundamental physics - it would just obviously be orders of magnitude too complicated to ever be possible to do. — Apustimelogist
Because obviously, in principle one could describe the entire process of cell development and the entire history of the world in which evolution occurs in terms of particles moving in space - it would just not be tractably comprehensible by yourself. — Apustimelogist
Our observations about reality are grounded on and instantiated in the most zoomed-in scale, fully resolved, fully decomposed — Apustimelogist
It takes more mental power to get at the meaning of "philosophy" than "photograph" even though both words contain the same amount of letters. — Harry Hindu
I could argue that the display of the peacock's tail says something about the Big Bang, as there would not be a peacocks if there wasn't a Big Bang. — Harry Hindu
It's really just a difference in degrees. More complex brains can use more complex representations and get at more complex causal relations. — Harry Hindu
This might be a fatal mistake in your reasoning — schopenhauer1
Why is it reductionist if I explicitly talk about the importance of higher level explanatory frameworks? — Apustimelogist
When are you going to refute the idea that all coarse-grainings of behaviors over larger scales are grounded on higher resolution details at smaller scales of space and time? — Apustimelogist
Well, unfortunately that doesn't guarantee anything. — Apustimelogist
What you are trying to do is deny that there is a core principle, but that is exactly what I am pushing back on. — schopenhauer1
The argument that he gave seems to me to be invalid, — Leontiskos
None of your scenario matters to the normative claim of the deontological basis being presented. — schopenhauer1
No, this isn't a slippery slope fallacy because the debate is at the normative level. Murder isn't somewhat wrong, it's wrong. — schopenhauer1
I have said a couple times in the thread I see the importance of different explanatory frameworks on different levels but just seems to me all complex behavior are grounded on and emerge from the smaller scales as described by more fundamental, simpler physical laws or descriptions. — Apustimelogist
This is partly because I am already very biased against attempts to reify meaning and against views that seem inherently strongly representational. The idea of symbols or signs in biology then seem to me something like an additional level of idealization and approximation that is another way of telling stories about biology, perhaps more intuitively - similar to teleology. But it doesn't seem fundamental to me compared to notions like blind selectionism which does not necessarily require things to be packaged up in terms of neat symbols and meanings. — Apustimelogist
I personally find ideas like active inference and the free energy principle have more clarity, eloquence and mathematical grounding than the Howard Patee stuff, in addition to being prima facie simpler to couple with my enactive inclinations. The epistemic cut idea also seems to draw from ideas in quantum mechanics which I just do not believe to be the case — Apustimelogist
Once you get into a mindset of looking for problems, you are never going to find an end to problems. — apokrisis
It's speculative. — Banno
You are no lightweight, but what you serve is also opinion, hidden. Speculative physics mixed with rewarmed dialectic. — Banno