May I gently point out that there seems to be a typo here. There is a member called "LUDVIG" on this site, but that isn't me, but you were quoting me. I wouldn't want to miss something. — Ludwig V
So here's a question for anyone who cares to delve deeper. That [we can’t see material objects and so only see sense data] seems to me to be the argument in Foundations, found on pp 24-25. If not that argument, then which? — Banno
The Cambridge Dictionary definition is "existing as an idea, feeling, or quality, not as a material object". This, to me, fits with, for example, Austin's insistence that not everything is a material object. Numbers would be an prime example. The Cambridge Dictionary gives, truth, beauty, happiness, faith and confidence as examples of abstractions. I have always understood properties like colour and shape to be abstractions — Ludwig V
I think that abstraction and generalization (which, despite Berkeley, I do not think are the same thing) are also sources of truth. So let's not over-generalize about it. Pragmatism is probably the best policy here. — Ludwig V
Actually, if you are saying that perhaps in this context "real" and "unreal" are more important than "true" or "false", I think you may have a point. After all, part of the problem is that it seems that everything we want to describe can be equally well described in sense-datum language and in ordinary (natural) language. So truth/falsity is arguably not the issue. — Ludwig V
I've never even heard of her. Who is she? Is she a suitable life model for a ancient retired male WASP philosopher? — Ludwig V
Get Plan B in place and then get on with it. — Ludwig V
As a pedagogical point, are folk here mostly familiar with speech act theory? — Banno
Is Austin anywhere arguing against descriptivism in these lectures? — Banno
Can you re-assure me that nothing disastrous will happen — Ludwig V
He wants (needs to) rule that distinction out [between appearance and reality], (i.e. show that the question "How do you mean?" cannot be answered in this context). But he doesn't quite get that far. — Ludwig V
...if Ayer were right here, then absolutely every dispute would be purely verbal. For if, when one person says whatever it may be, another person may simply 'prefer to say' something else, they will always be arguing only about words, about what terminology is to be preferred. How could anything be a question of truth or falsehood, if anyone can always say whatever he likes? — Austin p. 60
The doubt or question 'But is it a real one?' has always (must have) a special basis, there must be some 'reason for suggesting' that it isn't real, in the sense of some specific way, or limited number of specific ways, in which it is suggested that this experience or item may be phoney. Sometimes (usually) the context makes it clear what the suggestion is... If the context doesn't make it clear, [only] then I am entitled to ask 'How do you mean? .... — Austin, Other Minds, p.87 (emphasis in bold added) this is a link to the text
Can you re-assure me that nothing disastrous will happen if I follow the link anyway? — Ludwig V
I believe Austin may be thinking that we know the concept of dreaming from 'one's own case'. — Richard B
I don't think it's a dismissal of Austin to fail to see anything of metaphysical import — frank
We're approaching a point of difference, perhaps, in that for me, there is a place, if not for certainty, then at the least for confidence in our understanding, a foundation found in the very actuality of these considerations. We are not utterly adrift. I'm not sure you will agree. — Banno
"'Real or not?' does not always come up, can't always be raised. We do raise this question only when, to speak rather roughly, suspicion assails us--in some way or other things may be not what they seem; and we can raise this question only if there is a way, or ways, in which things may be not what they seem. — Austin p.69 (my emphasis in bold)
You'd have to give me some reason how this is not claiming evidence of how things are or are not done, or when they can be. — Antony Nickles
What metaphysical truth do you see in that? — frank
People do seem to have picked up the puzzle about why, if Austin wants to deny reality, he doesn't just come out with it. He seems to dance around the question with marginal and trivial comments on how the word "real" is used, and so forth. I think someone should at least try to explain why. — Ludwig V
marginal and trivial comments on how the word "real" is used — Ludwig V
I really didn't see him as doing that at all. Interesting how differently two people can read the same paragraphs, huh? — frank
'Real or not?' does not always come up, can't always be raised. We do raise this question only when, to speak rather roughly, suspicion assails us--in some way or other things may be not what they seem; and we can raise this question only if there is a way, or ways, in which things may be not what they seem. — Austin p.69 (my emphasis in bold)
Do you mean if everyone believed in God, that would make him real? — frank
I just disagree that there are metaphysical truths we can pull out of the way we speak. It's frequently difficult to even pin point how our speech refers, much less discover great truths in grammar. — frank
So if everyone says "God created the world in six days", would that reflect the mechanics of how the world actually works? — frank
I can't avoid the suspicion that... the arc expressed here is not as explicit as you make it seem. — Banno
Method, more specifically, I think (the method of "inquiry"). — Ciceronianus
I don't think there are much in the way of metaphysical implications from Austin, do you? He's just pointing out the way we speak. — frank
There is an additional aspect to this desire for certainty. It is the tendency to universalize. Admittedly not everything is certain (sometimes our sense deceive us), but equally not everything is uncertain (sometimes our senses do not deceive us). — Ludwig V