And you talk to them, greet them, as if all was well?Can you live peacefully next to someone who tells you don't deserve to exist?
Yes, I can. — NOS4A2
I think those films were exercises in stylization and were never meant to be taken at face value. The height of that stylization were then the Spaghetti Westerns.I know Marion played quite a few of those roles, but it's never seemed to me to be much to aspire to, and I've always been a bit bewildered by the role played by the cowboy in our culture. — Ciceronianus the White
I suppose this is easier to handle when being neighbors in an apartment building where people can mostly ignore eachother without this having any bad consequences. But being neighbors in neighboring houses in a suburb is another matter, because there are issues of infrastructure, trees, fences, etc. that you must discuss with the neighbor and come to some agreement to.Of course I can live peaceably next door to someone who thinks I should not exist (there are such people, actually) and they can live peaceably next door to me. We will both probably make some effort to stay out of each other's way. No comradely beers in the yard for us! — Bitter Crank
Even when they are said by a person living just a few meters away from you?Hearing or reading objectionable opinions will not so much as move a hair on one's head. — Bitter Crank
It would be just another dogma, just another standard of behavior that would become normative and obligatory for all. And sexually transmitted infections would have a field day, obviously.How much would Western Civilizational (WC) be changed, if both public sex and public nudity were accepted and tolerated? — 0 thru 9
That's confused.One doesn't have to be a Buddhist to endorse its teachings. — FrancisRay
Expressing hatred is a breach of (potential) trust. It's a declaration of war terms.In the scenario the racist also verbalizes that she would treat the person with common courtesy. Where exactly does the injury occur? — NOS4A2
No, the scenario in the OP specifies that the racist clearly verbalizes their racist stance toward the target and that the rest of the community know about this.I don't think a person can become a victim of another's thoughts. Even if the racist imagined murdering the other, the so-called victim would be completely unaware, let alone injured by it. — NOS4A2
Does their continued presence diminish your faith in humanity, or your faith that life is worth living?That it might be difficult to tolerate those who hate me — Hanover
I've witnessed a situation like this, and I saw how quickly the police jumped to conclusions, issuing fines, and then other neighbors taking sides, reputations being damaged, practical problems (regarding fences and so on) becoming intractable, and so on. Shaky grounds.Until there is an act, or even a reasonable belief an act might occur, I think we are stuck letting Archie Bunker rant away.
The thing is that once the other person actually tells you they hate you etc., you are now living in the knowledge that you cannot rely on your neighbor (!) for basic human decency toward yourself. They might not actively engage in acts of aggression toward you, but you now have reason to expect that they will engage in acts of omission that can lead to your harm. For example, if they see someone breaking into your home, they will not call the police.Indeed. But can you be on good neighborly terms with someone who believes you should not exist?
— baker
That it might be difficult to tolerate those who hate me — Hanover
Surely you wish that some people would not procreate?Same way auto destruction is harm against myself, antinatalism is harm against humanity. — SpaceDweller
I speak several languages and so I can compare. Something that can be a problem in one language isn't necessarily so in another (such as expressing one concept with one word -- e.g. Schadenfreude). Words often don't have 1 to 1 translations. I'm fluent in German and I can find my way around Latin. My native language is a Slavic one, not English.I've only read them in English, not in Latin & German, respectively. Both probably use "joy" & "happiness". Why that matters to you I can't fathom. — 180 Proof
Indeed. But can you be on good neighborly terms with someone who believes you should not exist?I don't think he should be expelled. A guilty mind absent a guilty act doesn't equal a violation. — Hanover
For being targeted for racism, in this case.Blame the victim for what? — NOS4A2
Heaven help you!I've never been in such a situation where I felt I was taking a big risk to say my opinion — Judaka
For that kind of criticism, some metaphysical/transcendental edifice is necessary, or a big enough ego./.../ You can find it too in the almost alimentary effects visible in say, the rhythm of marching of the SS, in uniform, bursting with pride. How to be critical about that kind of joy? — StreetlightX
This is the new thread, scroll up, join in.Ah yes. Quite right. But your disparaging comments about Buddhist epistemology suggest that it is a lot of nonsense, and it might take a long time to dispel this idea. If you start a thread on the topic I'll join in, — FrancisRay
Talk about projection!Calling all Buddhists fools for not seeing the faults in their own epistemology even after two and half thousand years puts you out on a very fragile limb, so I could argue it's up to you to present a clearly reasoned objection - but let;s call it a draw. .
Then how can you say I misunderstood Buddhism??I'm not a Buddhist. .. — FrancisRay
That means risking their revenge. How do you justify taking such a risk?Rebuking or expressing disapproval - depends on the context. To not tolerate means to act, which act depends on the person. — Judaka
No. You said that I misunderstood Buddhism. It's on you to make your case.But I have no wish to browbeat. You don't have to take my word for it. — FrancisRay
Agreed, said maxim requires a further qualification.No, I'm saying that having the avoidance of all suffering as a moral maxim is incoherent because moral maxims by their very nature, require at least some small degree of suffering to carry them out. — Isaac
What do you mean -- what does it say about the world that so many great minds have been preoccupied with suffering?Like it or not, that so many great minds, with a few exceptions of course, have been preoccupied by suffering says a lot about the way the world really is. — TheMadFool
Well, for comparison, in Buddhism, they say that there is suffering, that it has a cause, and that there is a way to undo that cause; they also say that suffering is something to understand.Such exceptionally talented thinkers would've been better employed and would've gotten better results doing something else e.g. trying to formuate a theory of everything.
Maybe this is an English language thing, to juxtapose joy and happiness this way.Ecstasy vs contentment. Joy vs happiness. Eudaimonia vs hedonia. — 180 Proof
But how does this address the antinatalist scenario, given that you posted the story in reply to the OP question?I remember reading a story once about this person, a girl I'm not sure, who's planning a party. She makes a list of her friends and other people she wants to invite. It so happens that she knows someone, someone who she wants to invite, but soon realizes that that just won't work out - this person, for better or worse, doesn't get along with the other people already on the invite list. There's simply no way that this person will have fun at the party - outnumbered and disliked at the same time. She decides not to invite this person for the better. — TheMadFool
But who is who in this willingness to suffer minor inconvenience for the benefit of others?Still not seeing what any of this has to do with the issue. What's at stake is whether (to rephrase it in your terms) it is reasonable to have an expectation of the individual that they will care about the well-being of other individuals sufficiently to want to suffer minor inconvenience for their benefit. — Isaac
Have you taken the Secondary Bodhisattva Vows?since for me Buddhism is the Mahayana — FrancisRay
And yet: "this makes me happy", "that makes me unhappy".Joy is something one undergoes: it happens to us. — StreetlightX
There isn't one without the other.Might it be true that you're distancing yourself from the people calling themselves Buddhists who you've met, rather than the teachings? — FrancisRay
Maybe they are fools, but maybe they know the truth. Maybe the teachings in the Pali Canon were never meant to be taken at face value.I gained the impression that you had no complaints about the doctrine, only the fools you had encountered.
Like you say:However, it might be better spent in more congenial company, by the sound of it, and perhaps another tradition would be more appealing. . .
My point is simply that in metaphysics there is no choice of paths. — FrancisRay
So you exclude the possibility that the two can overlap?If it does neither, then it's not a moral, it's just 'whatever we wanted to do anyway'. — Isaac
Oh. So one should set one's hopes on becoming a legend?But unity against overwhelming odds inspires timeless legend. — Possibility
What does that look like, not tolerating racist comments, speech or jokes?A racist comment, speech or joke - don't tolerate that — Judaka
So much for "suffering an inconvenience for the sake of others".Perhaps buy a gun? — Isaac
Yes.Altruism, in the sense of cooperating with and helping others in your tribe would certainly materially benefit the tribe, and thus be a good survival strategy. But today, in our overpopulated world, protecting and sustaining those who cannot contribute or even help themselves is no longer a good survival strategy. The question is whether we should be concerned predominantly about serving the survival imperative, or about appeasing human ethical principles and feelings. — Janus
Increasing awareness, connection, and collaboration -- to what end? For their own sake?The compromises made to our evolutionary defense structures and the steady increase in capacities such as altruism and diversity over millennia suggests that we’re not evolving for survival. We’re evolving to increase awareness, connection and collaboration. — Possibility
