If I might butt in for a sec.

the concepts of Metaphysics and Spiritualism, which were banished from scientific and philosophical discourse — Gnomon

It's unclear what you mean by 'spiritualism' but it's odd that you believe metaphysics has been banished from philosophical discourse.

The so-called "Enlightenment" was a necessary correction to the Dark Ages. — Gnomon

Also odd, like blanketly claiming that a natural development is correct. How do we know that things developed the best (correct) way possible? Perhaps God informed you that this was a correction to an error?

It ["Enlightenment"] was justified in rebelling against the dogmatic magisteria of the combined church & state of the Holy Roman Empire. — Gnomon

The rebellion was justified because of the dogmatism or because of something else? I'm sure bad stuff happened during the dark ages but it's not like whatever bad that was happening went **poof** after the "so-called" "enlightenment."

The third oddity is how you seem to simultaneously acknowledge the value of the enlightenment and question its value. It was a correction (for some reason) to the dark ages but caused the "attempted amputation of Soul from Body" or "Reason vs Emotion" rift, and therefore requires a patch for the "Matter vs Mind" split.

There is no attempted amputation and there's no rift or split. You've created a false dilemma so that you can try to provide a false solution. It shouldn't be a surprise that no one is buying.

A loss of meaning can only be resolved with something that is meaningful.

Why fret about flesh and blood human beings when you can making sweeping generalizations? That’s why human beings are often the brick and mortar of socialist schemes. Can’t make an omelette without breaking a few eggs. — NOS4A2

Do they dock your rubles for going off-script? I think you’re supposed to say that ‘blue lives matter’. Anyway, indeed, change isn’t always easy, especially when the deck is stacked against you.

They professionally managed so-called “protesters” at the White House had little to do with the memory of George Floyd. They were just there to cause trouble. The @SecretService handled them easily. Tonight, I understand, is MAGA NIGHT AT THE WHITE HOUSE???

— Donald J. Trump

Could he be a worse leader and bigger asshole?

The New Jim Crow: Mass Incarceration in the Age of Colorblindness, by Michelle Alexander, makes a strong argument for what I think StreetlightX is talking about. Government/law enforcement supporting capital interests, etc.

Tragically beautiful.

my policy would be to help them, til a future date - where they would be sent back. Is this supremacy or proudness?
— remoku

No this is fair enough. Time to ship the immigrants out and leave the US to the native Americans. 300 years is time enough. Off you go. — StreetlightX

:lol: Maybe proudness? just not a proud American.

I kinda liked the way he could bend his mind in whacky directions.

I think it’s boring. I can’t even be bothered to read them, let alone respond. — NOS4A2

You never troll and never respond when I troll you.

That's why people put up with you for short bursts. — Chester

You were rather disappointing today.

Truth shines in a free and open encounter with falsehood. — NOS4A2

Playing with trolls is nothing more than mild amusement.

The truth is good for everyone though.

they own the facts — Syamsu

Y'all own the copyright on the alternative ones.

Seriously thought, you guys are trying way too hard. Trolling is a subtle art.

Cheers, mate! :smile:

I can read you like a very simple child's book. — Chester

Frankly, I would be amazed if you could read any other sort of book.

...they gloried in their violence. — Chester

Should I care if you think it’s glorious?

I was pointing out the difference between glorifying violence and committing violence. You appear to be confused about this, as well as many other things.

The left glorifies violence when it involves smashing up Target though, doesn't it? — Chester

No, one commits violence when smashing up a target.

See , that kind of stuff gets written by teenagers. — Chester

Glorifying violence is adolescent, I must agree. Too much video game playing in the White House?

I guess they weren’t intimidated by the big scary orange man. :razz:

Trump’s Order on Social Media Could Harm One Person in Particular: Donald Trump

Man, he drags his feet on a pandemic but mess with his twitter account and he's bypassing congress and signing an executive order faster than you can say "dictator wannabe".

I imagine because it ridicules not just him but his followers as well, and touches on the cultish (and somewhat Jim-Jonesian in recent months) bond between them.

I don't know how to read this as anything other than Big Brother tracking critics. — Michael

Reminds me of a story I read this morning: https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/books/2020/may/28/trump-campaign-attempts-to-remove-satirical-cartoon-from-online-retailer

From the story:

In a statement, Anderson praised Redbubble for recognising the error, but said there were some “troubling issues” raised by the affair, including that the cartoon was removed less than 24 hours after he posted it, before he had received a single order.

“I doubt anyone had even seen it yet on the site,” he said. “This reveals that the Trump campaign has a system in place, trawling for material they find objectionable. If it happened to me so quickly, it likely has happened to others. How much other content has been removed this way on Redbubble and other sites?”

Claims of unsustainability have been made since Malthus, but so far technological progress has outstripped worries about carrying capacity, energy and resource shortages. — Marchesk

Not really, peak oil may have already occurred, and economic growth is dependent on energy that is relatively cheap. Increased efficiency, substitution, and technological progress may not be able to compensate for a declining supply of cheap energy. Clearly there's still a lot of oil, minerals, and water in the world, but all the low lying fruit has been picked, so to speak, and it will become increasingly costly to extract more in the future, not to mention more hazardous to the environment.

How can money be based on future growth if it looks like the future will be more expensive?

In the long run, we have a giant ball of nuclear energy in our sky, and the rest of the solar system for resources. We just need to make it through this century. — Marchesk

There's no technology in existence today where this can compare with oil or minerals and clean water found on earth. This points to an inevitable downturn. I can't imagine what a society/economy would look like where economic growth was possible with the enormous cost of harvesting minerals off-world, if that's the sort of thing you're suggesting.

Here's a counter question. How do you know that tapping the brakes on economic growth doesn't halt progress in fields needed to address climate change, pollution or feeding 10 billion people by 2050? — Marchesk

We already possess the technology to address climate change, pollution, and feeding every mouth on earth today. So why don't we use it? In other words, technology won't save us, we have to somehow decide to save ourselves.

So today an executive order to regulate social media and tomorrow an order to regulate the “enemy of the people” fake news media?

We’ve been told to live with less and less by not only Green Capital, but by the Church, by our liberal “friends,” and even by fellow comrades. Fuck that shit. Nah; if we’re going to be putting our shit out on the line it’s definitely not going to be so that I can live simply.
— StreetlightX

I agree with this sentiment. If you're going to create the Marxist "utopia", then aim for one that offers the same perks as the capitalist one. The majority of us don't want to go back to lifestyle of peasants or monks. That's not a good selling point. — Marchesk

Along the lines of what Isaac may have been suggesting, the capitalist imperative of economic growth is baked into our culture, is baked into us, and it is simply unsustainable. Also, a cultural shift is possible whereby the meaning of ‘well-being’ is more eudaemonic than economic.

Given the apparent lack of real well-being in our capitalist world, true well-being should be an attractive selling point.

Another example is that video. There is nothing manipulated in it. — NOS4A2

Right?!

it is right to use hate speech — NOS4A2

I knew you were a scumbag but, wow.

I fear for and pity those who need their information to be curated. — NOS4A2

It’s frightening and piteous that POTUS can only be trusted to speak and act in ways that are self-serving.

The one time trump mentions regulation people immediately turn libertarian. — NOS4A2

No, we just pile it onto the mountain of hypocrisies and stand in wonder of how so many can stand by someone who stands for nothing (besides power, wealth, and perhaps above all, attention).

Cooper admitted to altering some of the requests, saying it was a joke.

Oh, wow, that proves Mail-In ballots are 'nothing less than substantially fraudulent'?

From politifact.com

A review of Newsom’s executive order shows only registered voters would receive vote-by-mail ballots, not "anyone living in the state," as Trump claimed.

"Each county elections officials shall transmit vote-by-mail ballots for the November 3, 2020 General Election to all voters who are, as of the last day on which vote-by-mail ballots may be transmitted to voters in connection with that election, registered to vote in that election. As set forth in this paragraph, every Californian who is eligible to vote in the November 3, 2020 General Election shall receive a vote-by-mail ballot."

The Secretary of State’s website outlines criteria for registering to vote in California.

You must be:

A United States citizen and a resident of California,

18 years old or older on Election Day,

Not currently in state or federal prison or on parole for the conviction of a felony

Not currently found mentally incompetent to vote by a court

Living in Southern Cal., I've voted by mail several times, even though the polling place is a block away.

Totally gay, putting a factcheck on something debatable as that. — Syamsu

What is debatable?

Yeah, I don’t see why conservatives don’t just change platforms. If a few woke, PC billionaires are going to try to become the gatekeepers of information, it’s time to just walk away. — NOS4A2

Yeah, fact-check labels are unacceptable, because, uh, they contain facts.

I don’t see how adding fact-check labels to blatant lies on Twitter is totally silencing conservatives. Even if conservatives can only communicate in lies, adding the fact-check label to particular lies isn’t disallowing them from being voiced.

There’s no point in having a discussion with you — Possibility

You only just figured that out? :lol:

I suggest that you quit the forum because you don’t enjoy or get anything out of participation and not because of one disagreement or, what is it you Brits say? bloody row.

A warning sign can be the use of words like “living wage.” Is that for real?

In any case, Chibber seems to be advocating the formation of working class “tribes” to organize (unionize, i.g.) and exert their collective power to essentially better compete for resources. This seems to be inline with your vision of human nature.

I have always thought one of the reasons socialism (particularly in the communist form) fails is because it denies the true, competitive, acquisitive nature of humans. — prothero

Funny, because around 90% of human history was cooperative hunter-gatherer societies, so I wonder what nature we are actually denying.

Systems which substitute ideals for actualities are destined to fail (a problem with progressive liberalism as well). If there is no true reward for industry, innovation and hard work other than the "betterment of society" the result is predictable. — prothero

The true reward for industry, innovation, and hard work is becoming clearer by the day. :death:

...money can be seen as a way to store wants, in such a view the will to profit is no different to any other desire. — Chester

Money facilitates trade, fundamentally, and says nothing of wants. Beyond the basics, our culture largly trains our wants. We don't have to want what we're trained to want.

I guess that Lilly (co-creator of the Matrix series) is a sassy socialist. :razz:

Now your team will try their hardest with their tiny minds and useless bodies. — ztaziz

Not completely useless. We know they can type, for instance.

As an example a friend of mine had to do a business degree to progress where he worked...he was taught a load of leftist bullshit that he'd already discounted with his own work experience... — Chester

If you’re going to work with leftists you have to learn all 76 genders and not discount them.

Socialism kills individual endeavour. — Chester

You’re talking about the profit motive? Why would it be a bad thing to not have that?