He fired the lawyers because they were telling the emperor he had no clothes. — flannel jesus

He fired them because they were not willing to do their job.

Instead, he respected the lawyers he could find who were taking him the election WAS rigged.

He fired the lawyers because they weren't telling him what he had already decided must be true. — flannel jesus

If I were Donald Trump, I would have fired those lawyers as well. What is the point of paying an amount of dollars to lawyers who will not follow up your strategic defence plan? Whether Trump lies or not, it is obvious that he will not hire lawyers who would not represent him effectively.

Vaping
Harmful and dangerous
First and second-hand
Money making
Lung destroying
Air polluting
The planet
Toxic waste
Why? — Amity

It is the first thing that came to my mind when I thought about annoyances. But, I didn't want to post it because my intention was not to disrespect the smokers of this forum (if there are actually any). It is literally a waste of money and toxicity for the environment. You know, it is bollocks how the state makes advertisements against smoke addiction, but at the end of the day they collect a lot of money in taxes thanks to all sold cigarette packages.

My mother is a smoker. I always give my best to help her to get rid of smoking. It is not an easy task. We have already reduced the consumption of packages and she "only" smokes half of the cigarette. I will be pushing forward until she definitely stops smoking.

Was it Socrates who said, "Unexamined life is not worth living.", and "the ultimate goal of human existence is not just to live but to live a good, meaningful and virtuous life."? — Corvus

Yes, exactly. It was Socrates who said it. The dictum is recorded in Plato's Apology.

Depressive realism is a psychological term describing the tendency of people with depression to have a more accurate assessment and perception of reality than those without depression. While people without depression tend to overestimate their successes, capabilities, and control over the world around them, people with depression generally have a more realistic view. — Arlin Cuncic, Very Well Mind

So, depressed people have a clearer perception of reality than most of us, and they are more "prepared" for tragic events than the overall. Oh, come on... why is depression the main cause of suicide then? :roll:

Suicide is the main unnatural cause of death in Spain, with 3,941 cases accounted for in 2020. That means that on average 11 people take their own lives every day in Spain. Statistics show that 5.8 percent of the Spanish population has anxiety, and a similar percentage suffer from depression. On top of that, at least 1 million Spaniards have a “serious mental health disorder” and only half receive treatment.

Suicide.

And imagine other countries such as Japan or South Korea...

We all die and that is strangely satisfying for me :) — I like sushi

Interesting way of thinking. The fact that death is something that will happen for granted, makes me feel more motivated. Even death has a bit of romantic vibes. If we were all immortal, we wouldn't be motivated to do anything at all. :chin:

I was curious so I googled it. It looks incredible. I don’t know how I managed to live in Spain and not know anything about the region. I must go some day. — Jamal

The North of Spain tends to go unnoticed, and I don't know why. Maybe it is their "bad" weather (it is rainy and cloudy most of the time, so it is not likeable for tourists which are looking for sunny Mediterranean beaches). I hope you can go there one day. I think you would like it, as well as Cantabria, their brothers. Santander, Pola de Siero, Avilés, etc. are top cities, but underrated by the public in general.

PS. I’ve read 1Q84, the only Murakami I’ve read. I have things to say about it but I won’t while praxis is enjoying it. — Jamal

I know that 1Q84 is not your cup of tea. But, trust me when I say that Murakami has books which are worth reading.

1Q84 is a good book by Murakami, and despite it is quite long, it is worthy to read. Yet, I personally think that Murakami has better "long novels". The wind-up chronicle is a good example.
On the other hand, I fully recommend you to read Underground. What a fantastic essay on 1995 terrorist attacks on the Tokyo metro. He even interviewed some members of the sect, very worth reading.

I am looking forward to his new work being translated too! Do you know that Murakami comes to Spain because he was awarded with a royal prize? I wish I could go to Asturias (Northern Spain) to see him as a big fan. But I will not be able to do so... I am always busy! :confused:

There is no meaning in ... this topic. — Alkis Piskas

Ha! :grin: What I am missing in this OP is the participation of the author. @niki wonoto seems to be absent from his own thread...
I wish he had more exchanges with the users, or at least with @Corvus and @Vera Mont which are having interesting views on it.

Don't worry; I promise this will be my last answer to you.

I wish I could avoid your stupid and ignorant comments, but I cannot, because TPF doesn't have the option of silent people like you. Nonetheless, I am just waiting patiently for your ban. If the mods have banned more clever users (such as Agent Smith, Prishon, or Bartricks) than you, I don't understand why they haven't banned you yet. 

But good things take time, and I am fully aware that moderators will ban you sooner or later. I wish you the best! :smile:

Why are you always that rude? I was not debating with you but commenting on the topic.

I'm rereading Dubliners by James Joyce after a long time.

My book is in English, or Irish English specifically (IrE), and I bought it in Dublin. Warm and nostalgic memories. By the way, it is time to make a break from Japanese folks. Maybe for a month, if I am able to bear it.

Many countries changed their name after becoming independent by casing off their imperialist conquerors. — universeness

You are right. But, paradoxically, those new names come from the vocabulary and lexicon of the conquerors. Argentina, Colombia, El Salvador, Puerto Rico, Cuba, etc. All of them are Spanish names, they didn't use indigenous languages. For example: Puerto Rico could have been named "tahíno", that is the real name of the indigenous people.
On the other hand, I think it is important to highlight that the official language of all of them is still Spanish. So... I wonder, how really much did they get independent from us?

Meaning of life is to be searched / created by each individual to suit their own desire, — Corvus

Dont be silly, even if theres no meaning in life, one can easily create — Pussycat

Exactly. Good points both of you.

I don't think there will be civil war, but this is not to say there will not be violence and bullets. Two reasons I think things will not escalate to war is that the trumpster "patriots" are not significant enough in numbers or bullets. — Fooloso4

And a Civil War is expensive and makes a country go into bankruptcy. Even the most far-right (or far-left) politician is aware of this.

U.S. auto workers launch first simultaneous strike at Detroit Three

The United Auto Workers union launched simultaneous strikes at three factories owned by General Motors, Ford and Chrysler parent Stellantis early on Friday, kicking off the most ambitious U.S. industrial labor action in decades.

And some folks said that U.S. was not a good example of syndicalism, hehe.

- https://www.theflipside.io/ — Leontiskos

Very interesting. Thanks for sharing it with us. It holds neutral and substantive information. The design of the web page is cool too. I like how in the news says: "From the right" and "From the left", to understand how people see it politically. Instead of manipulating the truth using biased opinions.
Nonetheless, it only focuses on American topics. I miss more reviews on European matters.

The BBC (as you pointed out) is the answer which comes to my mind, firstly.

When I was in Scotland, I liked to read "The Scotsman". It is true that it contains different topics, but as much as I remember, there was a clear neutrality in the articles.

that has every time bounced back, actually important in the transformation after Franco's death? — ssu

First of all, the monarchy always bounces back because Spain is not mature enough to be a Republic. All republicans dream that Spain would be like France and Germany if we get rid of the king. Well, this has zero basis and our left (where republicans are allocated the most) tend to copy the behaviour of socialist Latin American countries rather than Western Europeans. I agree, in short, that, thanks to our monarchy, there won't be a Coup de Etat because the military structure is loyal to him.

Interesting, a bit off the topic, but I would love to hear just why some think so. — ssu

The Habsburg family represents the Golden era of Spain worldwide. Unification of the country, moors are kicked off from the peninsula, empire, resources from colonies, literature and art flowing around and a big presence in both European and Vatican power relationships. A pure nostalgic would feel nostalgic of this royal family. Since Charles II (the witched) dead without descents, the fall of Spain started on. His successors inherited an empire that remained largely intact, but Philip of Anjou had little sense of Spanish interests and needs. When a conflict came up between the interests of Spain and France, he usually favored France. Ferdinand VII was the worst of them: Spain lost nearly all of its American possessions. Incompetent, despotic, and short-sighted.

But again, Spain is not ready to be responsible for a republican state.

You have to plenty believe in universals and abstracts to follow up something like socialism. It is a political basis that only exists in abstraction of ideas, but it has never been applied practically. Even those nations which considered themselves as socialists hardly maintained the praxis with the pass of the years. Something like "common ownership" cannot be applied to subjects, because it is absorbed by the collective itself and disappears into the mass. So no, their politics are not concerned with something apart from their ideas and dreams.

I think the question isn't discerned in Platonic nor conceptualist, but over socialization. A person is said to be well socialized if he believes in and obeys the moral code of his society and fits in well as a functioning part of that society. Even though he doesn't understand the conceptualisation. The collective tells you what to think and how to be a good neighbour, easy. They generalise the behaviour and the basic values of society. Generally speaking, the goals of today’s socialists are not in conflict with the accepted morality. On the contrary, the left takes an accepted moral principle, adopts it as its own, and then accuses mainstream society of violating that principle. More fundamentally, the duty of the individual to serve society and the duty of society to take care of the individual.

I agree with unabomber when he explained in his manifesto: One of the most important means by which our society socializes children is by making them feel ashamed of behavior or speech that is contrary to society’s expectations. If this is overdone, or if a particular child is especially susceptible to such feelings, he ends by feeling ashamed of himself.

My intention is not to go off the topic of your post, but I fully recommend a look on Unabomber's manifesto: Industrial society and its future, You may find some related points to your arguments, and maybe you will consider them useful.

I think the bitter civil war and the Franco's regime still has made the divide in Spain a painful issue. Unlike Finland, Spain didn't have it's "Winter War" that would have united the people to fight a common enemy and thus create social cohesion between the left and the right — ssu

I agree :up:

We are so divided that it is impossible for us to agree on the lyrics of the national anthem. But the division goes further in all possible areas. I am not an expert in the history of my country, but I bet that if we had never developed as well as the rest of EU countries it is for the next reasons:

1. Catholic culture instead of protestant. Having wannabe Vatican lovers have always been a pain in the ass.

2. The Bourbon dynasty won over Habsburg in the succession war. Some of us believe that our culture would be totally different if our kingdom had centre-European roots.

3. Not allowing Catalonia and Basque country decide their own destiny. Believe it or not, (probably) the polls would result on NO to independence. But the block from the state to celebrate a referendum only leads us to regional conflicts and having citizens who hate Spain because their father did so, and grandparents, and so on...

I think that if the trade unions are apolitical would be better as then their members understand that the union is simply for there for their salaries and working conditions — ssu

I agree too, and I wish trade unions simply act in such a way.

September 13th.

Are these the largest trade unions and are they really Marxist? — ssu

Yes, they are the largest trade unions and represent the most workers of different areas in the country. They also act as a mediator when they have to negotiate with employers and Ministry of Labour.

On the other hand, they are recognised Marxists absolutely! But I am not the one who says so, it is written in their bylaws with subtle words.

Comisiones Obreras: CCOO claims the principles of justice, freedom, equality and solidarity. It defends the demands of working men and women; It is oriented towards the suppression of capitalism and the construction of a democratic socialist society.

UGT (Unión General de Trabajadores) UGT: The Unión General de Trabajadoras y Trabajadores is a progressive, committed, vindicating, democratic and independent organization with presence in all sectors of activity and throughout Spain. A society in which fundamental social rights have priority over economic freedoms and in which the benefits derived from digital or technological development revert to society as a whole. To reach this stage, the role of social dialogue and greater worker participation in company's decisions will be essential.

Yep, they seem to be pretty Marxist to me...

But I imagine you still have police and fire departments, roads, bridges, harbours, traffic lights, schools, hospitals, old age pensions, media and communication network, electricity, public transit and sanitation, running water and sewer systems... those benefits. — Vera Mont

Those are public services which are covered up by taxes. I do not know why it should be related to trade unions.

The CNT was a key actor in the development of workers' rights in the 20th Spain. My grandparents were members, like most of the families, because back in the day only the bourgeois were able to run a company or even the country. So, I understand the context of the necessity of being part of such collectivism.

Although, CNT considers itself anarchist, it had a big participation of the Second Republic and lefties brigades against Franco, which in the same period time emerged another trade union of the regime: J.O.N.S. a syndicate of the working class but with conservative and far-right vibes.

After Franco's death, both trade unions disappeared. It is true that CNT remains "active" but it is no longer important because in 1977 were born the two main syndicates of Spain: UGT (Unión General de Trabajadores) and CC.OO (Comisiones Obreras). These two are Marxist, and they refuse to recognise other classes of trade unions, such as UFPOL (a police syndicate, that it is fascist, supposedly)

Conclusion: Despite CNT had a good start defending the rights of the Spanish middle-class, their "children" ended up fighting each other because they became in political lobbies.

End of this class of History.

Where, BTW syndicalism is considered by many as a permanent ode to the evils of the Greek economy and development. Working for the state and knowning that it is very difficult to get fired, makes for lazy and incometent employees and workers. That is why Greece is so much behind in infrastructures, public services and facilities, etc. than other members of the EU. — Alkis Piskas

I know what you feel because it happens the same here. Trade unions are considered as a socialist lobby. But this is not a complot from the media, it is literally a leftist thing and they do not operate objectively against companies. Although I understand that syndicalism comes from Marxism, I think that they are scavengers of resources nowadays.

On the other hand, trade unions tend to parasite in some working areas. For example: trucks, trains, and everything related to transportation. Most of the members of these lobbies have been there for decades and just face the system or government for personal and selfish aims.

Spain is behind in all of those resources as well. I think this is due to how our representatives act. Instead of looking for a real collective goal, most of them act selfishly and make traps during the process. They are not Alternative Dispute Resolution. They are the ones who create the dispute!

but if you want the benefits of a society, pay your dues and mind the rules. — Vera Mont

Which are those "benefits"?

Unions are paid by their members; they don't pay their members! — Alkis Piskas

My understanding is that American unions generally pay their members during a strike. — BC

In Spain, as well as in Greece, the trade unions do not pay their members whether they want to strike or not. It is the opposite, the workers are the ones who pay fees to the trade union that are part in, but the unions are not a guarantee for the worker's incomes if they go on strike.

I thought this as granted, but I learnt in this thread that it is obvious some unions are more effective than others. I started this OP in my own national perspective and maybe that's why some of you see it as unrealistic, because in your country the scab is covered by the trade union. Well, that's not the reality of each nation...

Now, I can understand why some of you folks consider the scab a selfish relatively.

In fact, only social democratic countries --real ones, not those governed by leftish (allegedly "socialist") parties, in alternation with rightist ones-- that is, European Nordic countries (Denmark, Sweden, Finland, and then Norway) are good examples. — Alkis Piskas

I fully agree with you!

My intention wasn't ignore the other families. I am aware that every home has its own problems and we should not put someone's above the other's.

According to your argument, you consider scabs as selfish people. And I think it depends on the context, that's why I put a sensitive example in the dilemma. It is not the same crossing the picket line just because you are afraid of being sacked than having other kind of duties.

To be honest, I think that judging a scab is pretty easy because he is the "bad apple". Yet, I wanted to (at least) give a try and reasoning, and see why some workers scab instead of acting collectively.
On the other hand, I feel bad for the scab, because when the strike ends the rest of the works would ghosting them. Even though that he acted in good faith in every moment, and I do not consider them vicious.

It is fascinating because the act of acting individually in modern society is punished by the group, whether you have reasons to do so. My conclusion is that we have to cooperate, because others would see us as "selfish", "traitor", "a black sheep", etc.

Now where’s my union strike check? :wink: — 0 thru 9

Hehe :snicker:

But I understand the position and choice of those who cross the picket line. — 0 thru 9

Yes, exactly. That was the main point of this thread, trying to understand why some workers decide to go to work, or at least have some empathy instead of calling them "scabs!"

I think your argument is pretty state/government dependent. You are trying to give as granted that we cannot live without state intervention, despite that even most of the cases this operation ends up terribly. One of the main points is that most of the governments, in the long term, become useless and they will not work to make the things altogether.

Deep social divisions and dysfunctional political environment are big issues and they affect the management of the state. But this is usually caused by governments and not citizens who try to live individually and they cannot do so, because the state (or local government) forces you to have "ideologies" to be part of a "community".

Good question. I think not, and Mishima had his own style. I consider him as romantic with a mix of bellicism.

Ha ha. First, Somalia isn't merely "worse than us", it's total chaos. Why? Specifically because of a lack of government. — LuckyR

As well as here in Spain then. :roll:
It is not necessary to go to Africa to see chaotic nations. We have a tumultuous public administration too.
We are just lucky because we are the summer resort of the rest of the European Union members. We would be completely ignored otherwise...

The Kamogawa food detectives, Hisashi Kashiwai.

I am not a big fan of noir novels, but all the people are recommending me this book. Let's see...

Hey if you don't like government, check out Somalia. Let us know what you think about it. — LuckyR

Hey, the fact that some nations are worse than us, doesn't mean that our system works perfectly.

I can understand why he posts, but I don't know why you don't just ignore him. — T Clark

Because ignoring someone is a very disrespectful act. I read all the posts from NOS and I find them interesting, whether I end up answering them or not, but it is true that he is one of the main TPF members I interact with the most.

Ok I understand your point. However, I think that if they scab, then the union might oust them from the union as they scabbed even if it is unsuccessful. This will lead to the consequence of starving further down the road. — Justin5679

And that's how a coercive mobster works, folks!

By the way, I think @Vera Mont is a leader of a Canadian writers trade union, and that's why she is defending this collective so hardly. :razz:

Please share. — Vera Mont

Two important examples:

Strike of October 1972 (Chile)

Jimmy Hoffa

Well, it is interesting to see that mafia trade unions share the same industry/commerce: trucks and transportation. To understand how poisonous can a trade union be, we have to look at Jimmy Hoffa's story. Hoffa became involved with organized crime from the early years of his Teamsters work, a connection that continued until his disappearance in 1975. He was convicted of jury tampering, attempted bribery, conspiracy, and mail and wire fraud in 1964 in two separate trials. He was imprisoned in 1967 and sentenced to 13 years. In mid-1971.

Hello Alkis!

As it is, and I totally back up your argument. I didn't think of that, but you are right. The co-workers are just colleagues in an industrial activity and we only share time and space. While our family is more personal. A wife and the children are those who (in most of the cases) will accompany you in all the moments in the life.

Furthermore, those personal and sensitive arguments, I think there is a rational one: What kind of person am I if I can't help my home? Why can't I act individually and stay away from the stubborn behaviour of trade unions? I think it is crazy to postpone trade union's interests to my family's.