it wasn't your fault but the internet! I mean, sometimes can be a very spooky and dark place... the photo was weird as hell and if it's real and not fake is even scarier.

I know almost nothing about Shinto religion, but from what you say I understand that these gods are physical in nature rather than spirits, which are not. Is that right? — Alkis Piskas

Exactly. Kamis tend to be physically connected with nature and the environment. Some of the objects or phenomena designated as kami are qualities of growth, fertility, and production; natural phenomena like wind and thunder; natural objects like the sun, mountains, rivers, trees, and rocks; some animals; and ancestral spirits.
If one day you visit Japan, you would see in forests or mountains representations of kamis in tiny houses. Most of them are usually described with a Kanji related to nature. One of the I like the most is "kumori" which means "cloudy".

I believe you mean more sensitive than in other cultures, right? — Alkis Piskas

Yes, it is. I have been reading Japanese literature for the past two years and I perceive they are more sensitive than other cultures.

BTW, I love Japanese writing! These symbols, for me, are the most beautiful in all languages I know of. — Alkis Piskas

One of my main dreams is being capable of reading Japanese. I wish I can reach such objective one day. I am currently studying (by myself, autodidact) basic Japanese kanjis and hiragana, but I am so far away to read and understand all the symbols! :cry:

I have 4 Japanese scroll paintings in my living room. — Alkis Piskas

Interesting!

Non-personified Gods, on the other hand, are more "realistic" and are usually depicted as energy, esp. light: — Alkis Piskas

I am agree with that and your arguments reminded me of Kami, the deities, divinities, spirits, phenomena or "holy powers" that are venerated in the Shinto religion. In Shinto, kami are not separate from nature, but are of nature, possessing positive and negative, and good and evil characteristics. One of the main example of Kamis I like the most is Kitsune (a fox that possesses paranormal abilities as they get older and wiser). Japanese culture tend to be sensitive with seasons and nature and is well known that Kitsune is related to autumn. There are two common classifications of kitsune:
The zenko (善狐, lit. 'good foxes') are benevolent, on the other hand, the yako (野狐, lit. 'field foxes', also called nogitsune) tend to be mischievous or even malicious.

Look how beautiful is this old Japanese painting representing a kitsune under the moonlight. Realistic and it seems that represents and quiet and smoothly night.

But the most essential thing is to have patience.

Akira Kurosawa was a master of cinema and a very wise person. I recommend you this video (link below) about Kurosawa speaking about modern film-makers and screenwriters. It is magnificent.

find some way to talk about that without posting that link, or any other links like it. — fdrake

Thanks for removing the link. I had a trembling in my soul when I opened it.
(I totally regret my curiosity or gossip)

I don't see why we have to try and explain reality as if it only consisted of insentient atoms bang together. To me that is an arbitrary choice that ignores other phenomena that exists like our mental states, consciousness, symbols language and so on. — Andrew4Handel

To prove reality you would need physical evidence (whether you like it or not). I know is a very reductionist argument to use physicalism to prove things do exist.
I wouldnt say it is an arbitrary premise where we do exist just for random circumstances. According to this point, only God's existence can be understood if we say existentialism goes beyond than just atoms banging together.

Frankfurt defined bullshit as a state where the truth or falsity of a statement is irrelevant. These Chat AI's are Bullshit machines, in Frankfurt's sense. They do not care if what they write is true or false. They are in the end just stringing words together based on statistical patterns. — Banno

It is so early to demand from AI to have value judgements or distinguish between true or false statements. Logic still be a humanistic factor and it is complex (but not impossible) to "teach" them how to "disproving a theorem"
Yet, I wouldnt say they are not capable. For example, if you ask the Chat GPT to write a poem (another good example of humanized task), it does it. So, in my conclusion, using the logic in an AI software would come in the following years.

Here is the logic:

God created the universe therefore God must have a creator.

Hence.

Humans created the piano therefore humans must have a creator. — Andrew4Handel

I do not follow your logic because the first premise is false and ends with a doubtful conclusion. There is not evidence of God created the universe, therefore we cannot conclude he has a "creator"
In the other hand, sorry but I don't see the logic of creating a piano and depending on a creator

The most logical answer seems to be that this was a mistake on the part of the Chinese. For whatever reason this balloon may have lost altitude and ended up somewhere it wasn't supposed to.

However, now that multiple more objects have been shot down, the chance that all of this is just a Chinese "fluke" blown out of proportion by the U.S. is far less likely, and the act seems more deliberate. — Tzeentch

I see two different perspectives regarding this issue and I try to understand the problem with the purest objective opinion:

1. I also consider that China has committed a mistake for not controlling their "balloons" and the explanation provided by Chinese political affairs was weird. If I remember correctly, I think they said that the balloon was just flowing around for meteorological purposes. Nonetheless, according to the experts, the distance of altitude was closer to the ground so the argument is senseless.
Here we can imagine that China is lying and probably they are using the balloons for spy causes

2. Yet, I think Western world is obsessed with China and everything which comes from them. I bet that if the balloon was European, the response from White House would have been different.
On the other hand, it is quite hypocrite when USA claims that a political actor is spying them when they are literally spying the rest of the world too.

There is a diplomatic conflict because none of them trust each other... they are super power who want to control the world and the tension is always in the atmosphere (like the chinese balloons)

And as you see, it doesn't mean just everything, but everything together, which makes a whole. And a whole is different that (all) its parts. — Alkis Piskas

:up:

:up:

Interesting information and yes, it seems that Greek lexicon is more effective for describing kosmos as "order". To be honest, we only use such word in poetical expressions. We tend to use "universe" with more intensity whenever we want to refer to "order", so I looked into RAE again and it says about universe (translated by me :lol: )

Universe: From lat. universus.
1. adj. universal.
2. world (set of everything that exists)
3. Set of individuals or elements in which one or more characteristics are considered to be submitted to statistical study.

Then, I searched about "universal" and it says: From latin universālis, and this formed on the Greek καθολικός katholikós.
That comprises or is common to all in its kind, without exception of none. That comprises everything in the species of which it is spoken.

It seems that my language opts to understand universe and cosmos as "whole world" etc...

I just read an interesting quote from a book (Trickle Down" Theory and "Tax Cuts for the Rich", Hoover Institution Press, 2012, pp.10-11) related to this thread, it says:

The very idea that profits "trickle down" to workers depicts the economic sequence of events in the opposite order from that in the real world. Workers must first be hired, and commitments made to pay them, before there is any output produced to sell for a profit, and independently of whether that output subsequently sells for a profit or at a loss. With many investments, whether they lead to a profit or a loss can often be determined only years later, and workers have to be paid in the meantime, rather than waiting for profits to "trickle down" to them. The real effect of tax rate reductions is to make the future prospects of profit look more favorable, leading to more current investments that generate more current economic activity and more jobs.

Those who attribute a trickle-down theory to others are attributing their own misconception to others, as well as distorting both the arguments used and the hard facts about what actually happened after the recommended policies were put into effect. — Thomas Sowell,

Also, a question - does the picture show up on other people's mobile version of my posts? — T Clark

Yes , your pictures show up in my mobile version!

Liddell and Scott, A Greek-English Lexicon lists several meanings, under IV:

The world or universe, from its perfect order and arrangement — Fooloso4

Interesting too! Thanks for sharing the equivalence of English-Greek lexicon :up:

In my Great Lexicon of the Ancient Greek Language, the main definition of the word "cosmos" (κόσμος, kosmos) is simply "order". The secondary definitions also refer to "order" (but also to "beautiful"). So, this is the only "precise meaning of 'cosmos'", as a word in ancient Greek language. I don't think that there is such an exact meaning in philosophy, however. The first philosopher to refer to "cosmos" --not to the term itself but to the subject-- was Anaximander, who tried to explain the origin of the universe. It is said that Pythagoras, not much later, was the first to use the term "kosmos" to refer to the universe itself. And not much later, Anaxagoras introduced the concept of "cosmic mind". And so on.

So, I believe this is as far as the "precision" of the word "cosmos" can go in Greek philosophy. — Alkis Piskas

Interesting! Greek is such a beautiful language. We can learn a lot from your lexicon because of the origin of many words that complement our vocabulary, but I guess that's could be a subject of other thread: Specifically, philosophy of language!

I did a research in the R.A.E (Real Academia de la Lengua Española/ Real Academy of Spanish language), and it says about cosmos: From lat. cosmos 'universe', and this from Geerk κόσμος kósmos 'universe' and 'ornament'
1. Universe
2. Space outside the Earth
3. Plant of the family of compounds that comes from Mexico and has spread as cultivated in many varieties.

LMAO the third meaning of the word! :rofl:

:sparkle: :clap: :sparkle:

I've known supreme happiness, and I'm not greedy enough to want what I have to go on forever. Every dream ends. Wouldn't it be foolish, knowing that nothing lasts forever, to insist that one has a right to do something that does?
[...]but, if eternity existed, it would be this moment

- Mishima.

I would like to talk about Sun and Steel; and The Way of Samurai, both of Yukio Mishima.

...But I am aware that most you do not like samurai philosophy :death:

All the doctors and nurses opposed to community masking and mandatory vaccines were boringly grumbling into their coffees in the break room. Losers. — Isaac

:rofl: :100:

I tried googling Vogel's paradox. Null result — Agent Smith

Try ChatGPT on Vogel's paradox!

One of the "Covid moments" I hated the most. Why were they doing these things? It is unfunny and it looks like they were joking in pandemic and covid deaths.

I'm just lookin' for a good reason to identify one substratum as primary among many when they're all interchangeable — Agent Smith

Well, you can identify the substratum as primary depending on what you consider as primary quality or the "beginning" of everything. What I mean is that is up to you. For example, I would choose Thales's water arche because without this substratum is impossible to survive.

You're thinking of civil rights — frank

I think civil rights would fall under legal rights. — NOS4A2

Natural rights are believed to transcend any government: — frank

The notion of rights is blur. A vicious discourse is always encouraged to promulgate laws without any limitation. Falsely, many people tend to think that more laws on civil rights, more democratic the state. When it is based in other criteria: Obligations and responsibilities.
To be honest, the only real "natural right" is private property and even it is controlled and kidnapped by gubernamental interests.

Sometimes, I think the law makers tend to rule fraudulently with the basic aim to keep us in their selfishness. But hey, look at how many "rights" we have while the government forces me to pay taxes just because I hold a basic ownership.

Are you asking that in the context of your OP saying it is pointless to look for an origin? — Paine

I thought the same... but it looks like that we are convincing @Agent Smith to think otherwise!

Rather than axioms, they are universal affirmative principles of understanding.

All 3: first substratum, first cause, first axiom — Agent Smith

:up:

What exactly are you being distracted from that you don't want to be distracted from?

Mass media power of influence.

And apart from I guess France and the Benelux countries, every goddam EU memberstate feels being apart from the EU core. Germany has it's own problems in the closet, for Spain and Portugal Brussel's is far away, so is this for the other Southern European countries, the East European countries and the Nordic members of EU. Us versus Brussells is an universal attitude, not something just in the English mind. — ssu

:up:

It is true that thanks to Pedro Sánchez, Spain has been in the core of Brussels’s interests or at least more visible. Nonetheless, we are aware that we are not so important as much as France. But it is better being in the club than outside. We accept that thanks to EU, Spain experienced a big development and I am thankful, even I wish EU organisms control us rigorously because our politicians tend to be corrupt, inefficient and incompetent (at least, more than the rest)

I think most people believe in god because they are brought up with the idea - evidence and faith are post hoc. — Tom Storm

:up:

Children are taught there is a god and the notion becomes absorbed as part of their socialisation and enculturation. — Tom Storm

Paradoxically, we have here an act of empiricism because the children who were taught a basic notion of God, probably they wouldn't be aware about what is God or what is the cause of "believing" otherwise.

You're much more likely to have an experience of a particular God as an adult if you are properly primed from birth. — Tom Storm

Then, soon or later, they need a "proof" of God's existence and here is when the dilemma starts: do they believe in God because of blind faith? ... or do they need an empirical evidence?

I am not aware if there are different states of each other. Yet, I really think that we have to choose the arche from the available options because of they are considered as basic point of logic. It is true that they seem to be "primitive" but not less important.

and to identify one as the arche would be pointless and yet, the Greeks, for some reason, thought it necessary to find the arche. Quare? — Agent Smith

I still think it is necessary to find the Arche and I am disagree with being pointless. Aristotelian logic was founded on these basic pillars. Accroding to Aristotle there is a principia prima. Thus, the first principles of demonstration. One of the interesting points of Arche is the fact that, according to Aristotle, those not need to be proven because they are already "first principles"(principia prima) and self-evident (they are known to be true simply by understanding them). So, I guess Thales or Heraclitus saw water and fire as basic principles of logic to understand everything around us.

In the other hand, Kant says: synthetic a priori propositions are first principles of demonstration but are not self-evident. Yet, the debate starts in these premises again and over again etc...

A Deuteronomy of Kant-Friesian Metaphysics

When the Neo-Kantians, or Hegel, eliminated things in themselves, the result was directly, starkly, and unambiguously solipsism. Hegel avoided that only by making consciousness collective and universal, an "Over Mind," the "Absolute Idea," in which individual existence dissolves like sugar in coffee.
The sticking point is the conclusion that Kant's theory forces upon us, that the "real things" of the world are both external objects and the internal contents of consciousness.

...says roughly that beliefs are either based on empirical evidence or faith, setting up a false dilemma. — Banno

False? Belief is defined as: the feeling of being certain that something exists or is true, and the page puts a good example related to this topic: His belief in God gave him hope during difficult times. Belief - Cambridge Dictionary

Rather than being a false dilemma it is a deep debate on the identity of the believers tend to have. They - sometimes - experience crisis of faith when questioning the existence of God because of beliefs are not a solid evidence of existence… and that’s why some thought as empirical evidence arises.

If beliefs are not based on faith or empirical evidence, what is the main root? :chin:

And "empirical evidence" suggests that the universe did indeed have a beginning. The example of quantum fluctuation is a case in point, not in contrast. — Banno

But we are questioning the evidence of God’s existence not the universe itself or its beginning

A better argument against there being a good god who intervenes in the world is to look around at how bad a job he is doing. — Banno

Kierkegaard’s existentialism :grin:

Top Ten TV series??? — 180 Proof

1. Breaking Bad
2. Weeds
3. City on a hill
4. Better call Saul
5. The Makanai: Cooking for the Maiko House
6. Stranger
7. Social experiment Lain
8. Death Note
9. Neon Genesis Evangelion
10. Inuyasha

You are not mistaken and I am aware of what is the role of WHO towards facing an epidemic. But I wasn't balming the WHO, or European Medicines Agency, FDA, etc...
Those are institutions where many professional scientists work and their resolutions or recommendations are important to follow.

My claims were against the ministeries, governments, prime ministers, or whatever depends on political parties. Probably, I am mistaken, but as much as I remember, I cannot recall a government doing a clever plan against Covid.
I guess Australia was one of the effecientest when they locked down all their frontiers, for example.

I believe reparations are owed to the descendants of slaves, for example, from the institutions that profited from stolen people and labor. — NOS4A2

What if those institutions no longer exist? Many enterprises which profited thanks to slavery ended up in bankbankruptcy due to the abolishment of such activities.
In the other hand, I guess it would be difficult to "satisfy" those descendants, because how we economically measure stolen labor and persons? There will be people and "collectives" who would never felt satisfied, whatever the amount of money perceived. Maybe a solution can only be accepted by a symbolic act, like: "I am sorry for what our ascendants did in the past"

:up:

I am agree with your arguments and I would like to add another point if you do not mind

A vast number of citizens have a poor idea of the meaning of justice. They only want it if fits their personal interests, when the latter is clearly a selfish act. It is a big paradox the people who are asking to "repair" past problems (such as colonialism) would be probably the ones who would have been the worst in the other part in the balance! None state is out of being "guilty" past and those who romantize past civilizations only live in fantasy worlds or they are just hypocrite liars.

Good morning all.

Some countries and regions may have specific policies or recommendations in place. As always, follow the guidance provided by your country or local health department or ministry. — EricH

This was the main problem and the worst thing to do because it created two extreme scenarios: Countries with ministries which were obsessed with pandemic and we were in the risk of being treated as a criminal just for not wearing a mask or countries where the state gave zero attention or interest (like Brazil) and many citizens died in the streets.
Conclusion: The world was not ready for such complex scenario and most of the countries were just improvising.

For vulnerable people like the elderly and chronically ill, it makes sense to keep wearing them. For everyone else, probably not. — frank

:up:

That's true but the main problem (I guess) is not about the scientific research or the probabilities in infecting of coronavirus with/without mask wearing, but how the governments (at least in my country) lack of effectiveness. As you pointed out, this is about outcomes for those who contracted the disease, but the minister of health didn't even make a difference and we kept the wearing maks mandatory until today.
Why? Because is easier to rule with general plans rather than specific solutions.