well you can not study your self without taking in to account your environment. We are the product of the external world. — Nickolasgaspar

I see it reverse. The external world is a product of our consciousness and how we interpret it. If it is "real" or not depends on the theories, and that's why some are Platonist, agnostic, skepticism, etc... all of those help us to understand if everything around us real, but we start with the basic affirmative premise of Cogito ergo sum: "I think, therefore I am", not taking in account if the environment is real or not.

A claim is wise when it is based on knowledge — Nickolasgaspar

And knowledge is based on what?

The central issue οf Philosophy is the construction of wise theoretical frameworks capable to expand our understanding on all aspects of the world — Nickolasgaspar

What about the existence of ourselves rather than finding knowledge on external world? Cartesian thought can be important to develop such theories frameworks. I don’t think that external world is necessarily the main point or cause of every philosophical theory...

and the only available way we have to evaluate our conclusions as wise or not. — Nickolasgaspar

And how we "evaluate" conclusions?

I am agree with you that those concepts are muddled. One option is "agnostic/undecided", when, in my humble opinion, these two are different concepts and the first tend to be connected with religion rather than the big debate on realism.

As I expected, most of the votes went to "non-skeptical realism" because after reading and taking part in some threads, most of the members founded their arguments based on such theory.
Nonetheless, a few years ago I started a thread on "Gödel's philosophy of mathematics" and it truned out in a platonic idealism conversation.

I appreciate that at least, you deeply considered the option of "idealism" but it is true that is complex to answer.

External World: I accept or lean towards: — Banno

It is interesting that none goes for idealism yet. I remember debating in some threads with members who were Platonist.

Assume that karma and reincarnation are valid: — jasonm

The "karmic" solution is that this person has to live their next life being persecuted. — jasonm

If I am not wrong about karma and reincarnation, I guess in your "new body" and "new mind" after you born again, you are not able to remind of or having memories of your past life and the cause of your death for being a Jew in Nazi Germany.
On the other hand, reincarnation doesn't necessarily ends up in a human form. You can reincarnate in a plant or animal, for example.

So, I don't see a paradox at all.

Paradoxically, life is only meaningful when death is approaching to us.

"Life" might be nothing more than an ongoing, self-esteeming story certain ephemeral, coprophagic arrangements of matter are telling themselves — 180 Proof

:up: :sparkle:

Your arguments are so interesting. I have always understood the theory of "survival of the fittest" on a military/conquering way. Some authors, for example, defended the power of Roman Empire among Europe because how they showed to be the "fittest". So, I guess it can be understood as a principle to just defend a cause in wars. Could be a theory which romantize warlike purposes?
As Alkis Piskas, pointed out, it could lead us in a chaotic context like the Genocide inside Nazi Germany.
Then, I must answer the following question:

1) Is this concept or principle a "realistic" one, i.e. does it correspond and fit our common reality about life? — Alkis Piskas

If it is real o no depends on the context. Probably inside a biological system or environment is useless but to promote destruction and chaos such theory does exist.

I guess my frustration would come from the same source as it does for many, a constant curiosity/desire to know something better. To understand deeper. To demonstrate a higher level of knowledge and wisdom. And then recognising that I'm just as confused and unsure, as limited in resources and tools to discover as the next person. — Benj96

You are right in the fact that is difficult to get satisfied in terms of culture. Art and philosophy are the deepest topics in human understanding. I am even aware that I will die without knowing or understanding everything. It is impossible to reach such level of wisdom because our lives are limited and we dont have enough time to discover it all. Nonetheless, at least, in our limted space and time we have to do our best to reach wisdom and avoid ignorance.
I guess that's should be one of the main purposes of each person. Does wisdom help to reach happinness? I think yes

Frustratingly, I don't believe science alone will ever discovery an universal principle that explains all of reality as science is but one discipline and one dogma in the sphere of human means to understand the universe — Benj96

I understand your point, but why do you get frustrated? Don’t you think is better to always have debates and questions? The nature of universe looks endless and it is one of the most beautiful and sublime acts inside philosophy.

Are there more plausible dogmas for a "God" than those posited by major religions?

Interesting but difficult question to answer of. I think the only way to find out more plausible dogmas, we have to go back to archaic times. Ancient Egypt could be a good example because such civilization was polytheistic and they compared their “gods” or “deities” with nature or universe, for example: The Egyptian sun god Rê appears in various forms. Rê is a god in human form, with a blue skin, who sails across the sky in a boat. Myth allows for a multiplicity of explanations, where the explanations are not logically exclusive (can contradict each other) and are often humorous.
Another interesting example: The Egyptian king Akhenaton who introduced a monotheistic cult of one God, the sun god Aton and abolished the worship of all the other traditional Egyptian gods.

I see that with the pass of centuries, most of the empires decided to turn in monotheistic societies. Nonetheless, it is good to consider how Akhenaton consider the sun as the cult of one god rather than humanized characters. I guess Egyptian culture is the closer to always had more plausible god to understand universe and nature.

But all of the above is just my humble opinion.

The alarm went off in the kitchen and the intruder was in the bedroom! It's amazing, nature! — Agent Smith

The alarm just accomplished its task: warning you for approaching dangers. :smile: It doesn't matter the place where it went off.

I've generally never seen it much different than this, it's just that each generation's trivialities seem more grotesque that the last. — Tom Storm

We can argue that is our fault and probably one of the most sensible decisions could be not go to vote at all...

:sparkle: February 17th.

So, we're electing leaders based on sex/gender now? — Agent Smith

Seemingly, the masses go to vote just for trivial aspects rather than asking to the politicians more effectiveness. We live in a period of time where it is more important for a politician to have a good spotlight than a great rethoric.

I think it depends on the country and even the context we are deating about. The paper that I had read was related to the big increase in both GDP and rents in Estonia. Some economists made a critical argument in this country because of the laxi of taxation. Nonetheless, the prime minister answered to this in the following way as it appears quoted in the paper I mentioned:

Let's write about something we know nothing about & be smug, overbearing & patronizing: after all, they're just wogs... Guess a Nobel [i.e. Paul Krugman's] in trade means you can pontificate on fiscal matters & declare my country a "wasteland." Must be a Princeton vs Columbia thing.

- Toomas Hendrik Ilves, President of Estonia, a graduate of Columbia University, in response to a blog post by the Keynesian Paul Krugman about the"incomplete recovery" of Estonia from the European recession, June 6, 2012.

Yet, the paper is ten years old and now Estonia suffered a decreasing in both GDP and tax recollection.

“Estonia’s economy rebounded strongly last year, after weathering the pandemic better than peer countries. Now, the economic impact of Russia’s war against Ukraine is hurting growth, fanning inflation and heightening poverty challenges. This makes structural reforms to reduce labour shortages, protecting labour market flexibility and addressing skills mismatches even more important and more pressing,”

- OECD Secretary-General Mathias Cormann.

Maybe when it says "protecting labour flexibility" some economists defend a reduction of tax income. At least, it helped them some years ago...

Dynamics and immobilist politics in Japan by J.A.A. Stockwin, Alan Rix, Aurelia George, James Horne, Daiichi Itō and Martin Collick.

It is my first time reading a scientific book on political and economics of Japan. For the past two years I only had read literature (what I enjoy a lot) but I am also interested in other perspectives towards this country. It is a 326 pages long and after reading the introduction looks like so interesting.

I guess the mangakas wrote all the plot depending in the role of Kira. Believe or not, most of the fans have rooted for Kira instead of L...

And Portugal, which can be labelled Hispanic since it was also a part of the Roman province of Hispania. — Xanatos

Well, truste me when I say that they hate to be compared with Spaniards :lol:

Frankly, I like L's cleverness and seductive voice most of all. — Xanatos

Same. I remember getting disappointed when Kira killed him. I never liked the personality of Kira... such arrogant. L is more related to my personality, introvert and silent.

Quite interesting that the most violent countries are primarily black and Hispanic. — Xanatos

It is sad... I guess one of the main causes is that they live in poor and undeveloped countries. Then, they need to use violence to survive or get basic resources.
Among Hispanic countries only Spain and Chile are states where they care about people.

World's most dangerous countries 2022, by homicide rate

El Salvador, Mexico and Venezuela tend to be always the most dangerous countries. What surprised me, it is the appearance of Jamaica.

What do you think of the anime Death Note? — Xanatos

Good anime, I watched a few years ago and I liked it. Nonetheless, I felt sad when L died and the plot just continued without zero reasons. I mean, it was a great anime until the episode of his death, later on I remember it as a ok anime...

There was a reddit that claimed the photo was already in use around the pizzagate story. — Benkei

Whenever I read about these "conspiracy theories," I only think that people have a lot of free time and are spending it in those fantasies instead of reading books...

Do you think that this photo really did come from Hunter Biden's laptop? — Xanatos

I wish not... just for the fact of preserving a basic moral sense among people.

it wasn't your fault but the internet! I mean, sometimes can be a very spooky and dark place... the photo was weird as hell and if it's real and not fake is even scarier.

I know almost nothing about Shinto religion, but from what you say I understand that these gods are physical in nature rather than spirits, which are not. Is that right? — Alkis Piskas

Exactly. Kamis tend to be physically connected with nature and the environment. Some of the objects or phenomena designated as kami are qualities of growth, fertility, and production; natural phenomena like wind and thunder; natural objects like the sun, mountains, rivers, trees, and rocks; some animals; and ancestral spirits.
If one day you visit Japan, you would see in forests or mountains representations of kamis in tiny houses. Most of them are usually described with a Kanji related to nature. One of the I like the most is "kumori" which means "cloudy".

I believe you mean more sensitive than in other cultures, right? — Alkis Piskas

Yes, it is. I have been reading Japanese literature for the past two years and I perceive they are more sensitive than other cultures.

BTW, I love Japanese writing! These symbols, for me, are the most beautiful in all languages I know of. — Alkis Piskas

One of my main dreams is being capable of reading Japanese. I wish I can reach such objective one day. I am currently studying (by myself, autodidact) basic Japanese kanjis and hiragana, but I am so far away to read and understand all the symbols! :cry:

I have 4 Japanese scroll paintings in my living room. — Alkis Piskas

Interesting!

Non-personified Gods, on the other hand, are more "realistic" and are usually depicted as energy, esp. light: — Alkis Piskas

I am agree with that and your arguments reminded me of Kami, the deities, divinities, spirits, phenomena or "holy powers" that are venerated in the Shinto religion. In Shinto, kami are not separate from nature, but are of nature, possessing positive and negative, and good and evil characteristics. One of the main example of Kamis I like the most is Kitsune (a fox that possesses paranormal abilities as they get older and wiser). Japanese culture tend to be sensitive with seasons and nature and is well known that Kitsune is related to autumn. There are two common classifications of kitsune:
The zenko (善狐, lit. 'good foxes') are benevolent, on the other hand, the yako (野狐, lit. 'field foxes', also called nogitsune) tend to be mischievous or even malicious.

Look how beautiful is this old Japanese painting representing a kitsune under the moonlight. Realistic and it seems that represents and quiet and smoothly night.

But the most essential thing is to have patience.

Akira Kurosawa was a master of cinema and a very wise person. I recommend you this video (link below) about Kurosawa speaking about modern film-makers and screenwriters. It is magnificent.

find some way to talk about that without posting that link, or any other links like it. — fdrake

Thanks for removing the link. I had a trembling in my soul when I opened it.
(I totally regret my curiosity or gossip)

I don't see why we have to try and explain reality as if it only consisted of insentient atoms bang together. To me that is an arbitrary choice that ignores other phenomena that exists like our mental states, consciousness, symbols language and so on. — Andrew4Handel

To prove reality you would need physical evidence (whether you like it or not). I know is a very reductionist argument to use physicalism to prove things do exist.
I wouldnt say it is an arbitrary premise where we do exist just for random circumstances. According to this point, only God's existence can be understood if we say existentialism goes beyond than just atoms banging together.

Frankfurt defined bullshit as a state where the truth or falsity of a statement is irrelevant. These Chat AI's are Bullshit machines, in Frankfurt's sense. They do not care if what they write is true or false. They are in the end just stringing words together based on statistical patterns. — Banno

It is so early to demand from AI to have value judgements or distinguish between true or false statements. Logic still be a humanistic factor and it is complex (but not impossible) to "teach" them how to "disproving a theorem"
Yet, I wouldnt say they are not capable. For example, if you ask the Chat GPT to write a poem (another good example of humanized task), it does it. So, in my conclusion, using the logic in an AI software would come in the following years.

Here is the logic:

God created the universe therefore God must have a creator.

Hence.

Humans created the piano therefore humans must have a creator. — Andrew4Handel

I do not follow your logic because the first premise is false and ends with a doubtful conclusion. There is not evidence of God created the universe, therefore we cannot conclude he has a "creator"
In the other hand, sorry but I don't see the logic of creating a piano and depending on a creator

The most logical answer seems to be that this was a mistake on the part of the Chinese. For whatever reason this balloon may have lost altitude and ended up somewhere it wasn't supposed to.

However, now that multiple more objects have been shot down, the chance that all of this is just a Chinese "fluke" blown out of proportion by the U.S. is far less likely, and the act seems more deliberate. — Tzeentch

I see two different perspectives regarding this issue and I try to understand the problem with the purest objective opinion:

1. I also consider that China has committed a mistake for not controlling their "balloons" and the explanation provided by Chinese political affairs was weird. If I remember correctly, I think they said that the balloon was just flowing around for meteorological purposes. Nonetheless, according to the experts, the distance of altitude was closer to the ground so the argument is senseless.
Here we can imagine that China is lying and probably they are using the balloons for spy causes

2. Yet, I think Western world is obsessed with China and everything which comes from them. I bet that if the balloon was European, the response from White House would have been different.
On the other hand, it is quite hypocrite when USA claims that a political actor is spying them when they are literally spying the rest of the world too.

There is a diplomatic conflict because none of them trust each other... they are super power who want to control the world and the tension is always in the atmosphere (like the chinese balloons)

And as you see, it doesn't mean just everything, but everything together, which makes a whole. And a whole is different that (all) its parts. — Alkis Piskas

:up:

:up:

Interesting information and yes, it seems that Greek lexicon is more effective for describing kosmos as "order". To be honest, we only use such word in poetical expressions. We tend to use "universe" with more intensity whenever we want to refer to "order", so I looked into RAE again and it says about universe (translated by me :lol: )

Universe: From lat. universus.
1. adj. universal.
2. world (set of everything that exists)
3. Set of individuals or elements in which one or more characteristics are considered to be submitted to statistical study.

Then, I searched about "universal" and it says: From latin universālis, and this formed on the Greek καθολικός katholikós.
That comprises or is common to all in its kind, without exception of none. That comprises everything in the species of which it is spoken.

It seems that my language opts to understand universe and cosmos as "whole world" etc...

I just read an interesting quote from a book (Trickle Down" Theory and "Tax Cuts for the Rich", Hoover Institution Press, 2012, pp.10-11) related to this thread, it says:

The very idea that profits "trickle down" to workers depicts the economic sequence of events in the opposite order from that in the real world. Workers must first be hired, and commitments made to pay them, before there is any output produced to sell for a profit, and independently of whether that output subsequently sells for a profit or at a loss. With many investments, whether they lead to a profit or a loss can often be determined only years later, and workers have to be paid in the meantime, rather than waiting for profits to "trickle down" to them. The real effect of tax rate reductions is to make the future prospects of profit look more favorable, leading to more current investments that generate more current economic activity and more jobs.

Those who attribute a trickle-down theory to others are attributing their own misconception to others, as well as distorting both the arguments used and the hard facts about what actually happened after the recommended policies were put into effect. — Thomas Sowell,

Also, a question - does the picture show up on other people's mobile version of my posts? — T Clark

Yes , your pictures show up in my mobile version!

Liddell and Scott, A Greek-English Lexicon lists several meanings, under IV:

The world or universe, from its perfect order and arrangement — Fooloso4

Interesting too! Thanks for sharing the equivalence of English-Greek lexicon :up:

In my Great Lexicon of the Ancient Greek Language, the main definition of the word "cosmos" (κόσμος, kosmos) is simply "order". The secondary definitions also refer to "order" (but also to "beautiful"). So, this is the only "precise meaning of 'cosmos'", as a word in ancient Greek language. I don't think that there is such an exact meaning in philosophy, however. The first philosopher to refer to "cosmos" --not to the term itself but to the subject-- was Anaximander, who tried to explain the origin of the universe. It is said that Pythagoras, not much later, was the first to use the term "kosmos" to refer to the universe itself. And not much later, Anaxagoras introduced the concept of "cosmic mind". And so on.

So, I believe this is as far as the "precision" of the word "cosmos" can go in Greek philosophy. — Alkis Piskas

Interesting! Greek is such a beautiful language. We can learn a lot from your lexicon because of the origin of many words that complement our vocabulary, but I guess that's could be a subject of other thread: Specifically, philosophy of language!

I did a research in the R.A.E (Real Academia de la Lengua Española/ Real Academy of Spanish language), and it says about cosmos: From lat. cosmos 'universe', and this from Geerk κόσμος kósmos 'universe' and 'ornament'
1. Universe
2. Space outside the Earth
3. Plant of the family of compounds that comes from Mexico and has spread as cultivated in many varieties.

LMAO the third meaning of the word! :rofl: