I live in Honduras and the situation is almost the same here as in England although for different reasons maybe.
The doctors and nurses go on strike and everyone bitches about how thoughtless the are. Transportation goes on strike and everyone bitches about how thoughtless they are. — Sir2u

Well, I think the huge difference between having strikes in Honduras and England is the fact that, in the latter the society still works and everything goes "correctly". It is not perfect the situation in England but at least there are not deficiencies towards the basic functionality of a state or community. Honduras (as the other countries of central America) has big problems... and they go further than just strikes.

I wish you the best of living there. Probably, it is just my own negative prejudices but it seems that the situation in Honduras, El Salvador, Nicaragua, etc... is pretty f*cked up (sorry for using bad words)

1. Perfect Blue
2. Pulp fiction
3. The Godfather (all the parts)
4. Tokyo Monogatari
5. A clockwork orange
6. Ikiru
7. Yojimbo
8. Ran
9. Akira
10. Paprika.

It never rains as everyome likes, right? — Alkis Piskas

Exactly :up:

But there's a simple explanation for this: The surface of the toast that is spread with stuff is heavier! — Alkis Piskas

Ha! I didn't realise that point. Now, it is clearer to me. I understand how is about, this goes more interesting every post.

It's a more certain than "probably": it will eventually happen at some point. — Alkis Piskas

So, there are 100 % of chances to actually happen X situation in Y moment. Then, we could assume there is not margin of error applying Murphy's law.

I am agree with your argument :up:

There is a saying in Spanish who says: nunca llueve a gusto de todos. This means that the interpretation of situations and circumstances are relative and subjective to each individual.
I felt like a stupid for forgetting the umbrella, but it is true that a farmer would be happy with the rains because it helps to his crops.

That's why, the only correct interpretation of Murphy's law is the probabilistic one, which is universal and objective. — Alkis Piskas

Is this why they use the example of the toast right?
If you're eating toast, and you accidentally bump it to the floor, it seems more likely to land buttered side down. This is one of the most common formulations of Murphy's Law--the tongue-in-cheek axiom that states "If something can go wrong, it probably will." If you [we] examine the toast problem rationally, surely you'd expect a fifty-fifty outcome, much like flipping a coin.

Interesting and original post.

To be honest, it is difficult to imagine a developed country such as Canada is the extreme situation of "everyone quitting their jobs" and "looting begins for both survival and criminal intent."
There are other options to fix up the problems and situations. If you are Canadian, you are lucky to live in one of the best and most developed countries of the world.

The Hispanic world is different and is not so far of what you proposed in your OP.
Venezuela, Argentina, Perú, etc... you can see all of them are acting in similar ways of your arguments. Nonetheless, the situation is not changing at all, and even the context turned out worse than before. This happens because they are societies without a clear structure or democracy. Violence doesn't help to fixing anything.

Thanks BC! Appreciate how you make clear the distinction between the two laws. It is an interesting topic, but I must admit that I am not confident enough to speak about. Anyway, it is always worthy to debate here about such philosophical topics even if some of us are not so acknowledged in them!
Always grateful when someone helps me here to understand whatever. :up:

I personally use it sometimes just for joking, e.g. when something goes wrong although the chances of this happening are small. — Alkis Piskas

I tend to use it as jokes too. I don’t see it pessimistic either. It is Interesting that, myself, use this theory to explain random situations or scenarios that I don’t understand. For example: the sky is cloudy but I say to myself: nah, zero chances of raining and I leave home without an umbrella. Then, starts raining. I laugh and start thinking about Murphy’s law.

Wynton Marsalis Septet at Jazz in Marciac 2015.

From what I could see, including in the Wikipedia article you linked, there are differences in opinion about how many died resulting from the inquisitions actions. I think there would be agreement that the numbers were much less than those killed in the conquest of the new world, which was taking place at about the same time. — T Clark

Thanks for having and investigate another perspective on the "dark" side of the history of my country, Clarky. Appreciated it.

Smith, I think it is the opposite: reality makes more pain and suffering than illusions.

I see, but I am only have one objection on your argument: who will be the responsable of the costs and losses? Everyone?
Because you are only speaking about profitable entities with limited liability, but what about those who are in bankruptcy?

Ok, let me know if I follow your arguments correctly. You want to avoid the presence of for-profit corporations towards the construction or development of public works such as roads or hospitals because according to your arguments, there is not a "quid pro quo" at all and those entities are just a gift of the government to a few businessmen who make profit thanks to public goods, right?

Well, if I am correct, who should invest in those public goods? Just the state with public tenders?

We had an industrial revolution based on partnerships. — Benkei

It is based on partnerships because most of the states, thus "public administrations" are not effective enough or they hold so much debts that it is impossible to maintain an order in the markets. The state's presence is not necessary for everything. Despite the fact our governments can approve laws to intervene them, the results didn't end up well, for example: Venezuela with a high rate of inflation and zero control in currencies or Argentina, 96 % of inflation and a structure where middle class doesn't even exists.

We can be agree with the fact that we should not concentrate all the resources in private companies, but this is something about competency not state intervention.
As @ssu expressed: an important part of the profits from companies go to salaries of the workers who feed their families. The owner or stakeholder doesn't hold "everything". In the other hand, if the state public funds go into bankruptcy, there will be a lot of workers without being paid, like ot happens in Sri Lanka or Pakistan. The public servants of these countries cannot be paid because their countries have been accumulated so much international debt.

1. Parasitic: in a relationship, one gains and the other loses
2. Symbiotic: in a relationship, both register a gain

Morality is, by the looks of it, all about symbiosis and reducing parasitism. — Agent Smith

Well said, Smith! :up: :100:

If the same crime was committed by anyone on this thread, they'd be in a cell right now. — Merkwurdichliebe

Well, that what happens when you are a normal/ordinary citizen. We don't have the same amount of power of politicians to have control over the courts and judges. It occurs there in America and here in Europe. It is not about Trump vs Biden. Do not be that blind of fighting due to politicians. It is obvious that the politicians will use their power to be "unstoppable" while we are here discussing for whatever, while they do not care.

wealthiest to continue having total freedom and never face punishment — Bug Biro

Sooner or later they face punishment. Most of the politicians who were corrupt or made illegal activity, ended up condemned by judges. The scandals of the richest were uncovered and they suffered a big punishment by both society and courts. Some examples:

1. Impeachment of Bill Clinton: Bill Clinton, was impeached by the United States House of Representatives of the 105th United States Congress on December 19, 1998, for "high crimes and misdemeanors". Charges: Perjury, obstruction of justice, abuse of power. Despite Clinton remained in power, his personal image was depleted in the next elections.

2. Jeffrey Epstein's child prostitution: Epstein was arrested again on July 6, 2019, on federal charges for the sex trafficking of minors in Florida and New York. Epstein's lawyers have disputed the ruling, and there has been significant public skepticism about the true cause of his death, resulting in numerous conspiracy theories.

. Probably many people would choose to be moral instead accepting bottomless funds and unprecedented freedom to do anything freely, good or bad. — Bug Biro

Fortunately, most of the people is in the first group. Otherwise, the world would never had progressed in centuries.

First of all, this is impossible to reach out:

The initiative of no cash and no cost is considered the most helpful remedy gifted to humans by humans and sparks rapid progress in the accomplishment of a near-perfect existence for all of us. — Bug Biro

In the other hand, I am somehow agree with you arguments on conspiracy but I object that it looks like all societies work as you described and that's a fallacy.
We don't have perfect countries, communities, organisations, etc... it is true, but we have to consider some examples which work with efficiency: I guess Nordic countries such Denmark, Norway, Finland or Sweden can fit on what you are looking for. Their population is relatively small, public administrations work good, politicians are not so corrupted, there are a lot of civic people, etc... so, in my view, I doubt that conspiracy has a clue in Nordic countries at all.
The richest - as you targeted - only operate with evil practices in the countries they are allowed to do so. It is not the same being a monopoly in Mexico where the justice doesn't even existence, that in European Union where is the markets are controlled.

Note: I am not pretending to say that European Union is perfect compared to Mexico (for example). My point is the fact that conspiracies have more deep impacts in some countries than others.

You have a good sensei and he is trying to teach you something important: how to understand and respect time.

It is not about having better or worse skills. I even think that your sensei is already aware of your talent. He wants to teach you not "travelling" or "going" that fast in your life. Respect the days, months, weeks, years, etc... every second is important. I would not call it "bad patience" but good practice.

Let’s say I’ve got a goal of earning a black belt before I turn 20 and my twentieth birthday is approaching. Im skilled enough for a black belt but my sensei wants me to wait longer because he wants me to be patient but by waiting longer it will take me past my twentieth birthday so I will not achieve my goal — HardWorker

Why do you consider as a "goal" to get the black belt before turning 20? What will you do when you will be 30? If everything happens that fast... it will disappear fast too.
Your sensei is teaching you a path of life not just physical skills. He is trying to explain that Karate can be part of you the rest of your life if you learn how to manage time.

The only explanation of my existence is death. Our lives are ephemeral, and we try to avoid the perpetual thought of death approach doing different activities. I don't want to sound critical with death, I even want a limited life. That's the cause and explanation of my existence: The fact that I will die one day. While I am touring this path of existence, I want to make the less pain possible and I realised that the only way to do so is thanks to loneliness. This is the main reason why I don't want to get married or have kids. I don't deserve it and my time either.

What are your ethical, epistemological or personal views related to existence? — Benj96

We live in an age in which there is no heroic death.

- Mishima.

Like they don't understand that the job of every politician is to deceive the public. — Tzeentch

:up:

It appears that a lack of regulation inevitably leads to disaster in markets of this type. — frank

:up:

if it is necessary, yes.

Clearly the collectivist believes otherwise - they believe they are entitled to the individual's cooperation, which is why they demand their departure when the individual refuses.

This entitlement stems from a belief that they are right, and therefore the individual has no right to refuse, and no right to exist if he does. — Tzeentch

Maybe I am the only one who see it in that way, but isn't it how a country should works?

Surely for someone to commit suicide they must be deeply unhappy, or am I missing something? — Tzeentch

Yes, you are missing the fact that Japanese citizens conceive death differently as we do and probably unhappiness is not the main causes. There were hundreds of samurai who died killing themselves doing "seppuku" just to save their dignity and integrity. This cultural identity and heritage has passed through to all japanese citizens in the modern era. I don't want to go off from the main topic but there are a lot of interesting book related to this topic like "Runaway horses" by Yukio Mishima. Please, read it, you will like it.

You, apparently. Weren't you just now wondering about that? — Tzeentch

No, it was you the debater who talked about happiness. I was referring to efficiency not caring at all if such group is happy or unhappy.

My question was what the individual is supposed to do when the "collective" they are living in is making them unhappy. — Tzeentch

Leave. If they don't like the collective or they are unhappy, the reasonable decision is leave and let the rest progress. I still see as a selfish act to sacrifice an entire group just for the commodity of one user. It is 99 % against 1 %. My unhappiness cannot stop your effectiveness. If I am unhappy, it is a problem of my own because happiness is subjective. That individual can change the situation with another attitude. Unhappiness is not something which persists forever...

I doubt many Japanese would agree this is normal, regardless of their views on life and death. Do you believe this is normal? — Tzeentch

I didn't say it was "normal". I said that the concept of death is pretty different in Japan. I am aware that suicide rates are an important issue there, but the cause is not unhappiness in the group or unsatisfied life. They killed themselves for many complex reasons. For example: one a student fails and is aware is not good enough for a better work in the future, he kills himself (as much as this practice is common in China and South Korea) because they are so competitive. In the other hand, some old people decide to suicide when they are aware of being a problem to their family.
Etc... there are a lot of reasons and they don't kill themselves just for depression or unhappiness as it happens in Western world.

Happiness and life satisfaction - wonder no more — Tzeentch

Who cares if a Spaniard is happier than a Chinese citizen? It is a very subjective essay. Meanwhile you need China to make businesses, you don't care if Spain disappears today. So, happiness is not valuable at all. I even see a problem of my countrymen if they are "happy" despite the circumstances we are facing. That wacky thoughts only come from hippies that do not care about anything: "oh yeah I am poor but I am happy with my basic needs"
Well, that's only exists in dreams. At the end of the day... where you would put your investments or assets? Tokyo or Seville?

Tokyo, right? Because they are effective despite they are more or less happy than us.

it's certainly not up to a "collective" to decide for others what constitutes happiness. — Tzeentch

Yes, but happiness was never been in my arguments. I was speaking about effectiveness. I don't care if they are happy or sad, whenever happiness is just an entelechy.

How would that be any more or less selfish than asking of the unhappy individual to simply sacrifice themselves? — Tzeentch

But why happiness should be a factor to consider of in terms of functionality? Who are we to say the group is "unhappy"? They just work and are effective. Simple.

South Korea and Japan also have notoriously high rates of suicide, so I guess that answers part of the question of how they deal with unhappy individuals — Tzeentch

The concept of death in Japan is different from the western world. We see it as a problem when they understand it as a path of life
Yukio Mishima: The Japanese have always been a people with a severe awareness of death. But the Japanese concept of death is pure and clear, and in that sense it is different from death as something disgusting and terrible as it is perceived by Westerners.

As for China, well... If you believe economic prosperity is worth living under an authoritarian dictatorship then our ideas about what is happiness must lie very far apart. — Tzeentch

I wonder if a person from Andalucía in Spain - which is one of the poorest regions of Europe and with a high unemployment ratio - is happier than an individual of Asian countries. Let me doubt it a lot...

because it's not effective at making me happy at all. — Tzeentch

First of all: what is happiness? How we measure the happiness of the people at all?

Should the unhappy individual simply sacrifice this one life they're given for the sake of some imaginary higher power we call "the collective"? — Tzeentch

Yes and no. We have to take care of the individual, that's for granted. But this doesn't mean that one group has to step down just for one person. That would be selfish and ineffective. Should everyone lose for just one individual?

This sounds like a nightmare. — Tzeentch

For me, it is a dreaming lifestyle. I guess that's why the economy of my country is in the 16th position and theirs are the 1st, 3rd and 5th of the world. These are pure facts not personal opinions.

It depends on the efficiency of the collective. If the group or mass is inefficient, it absorbs and excludes the individual creating a heterogeneous mass without control and wasting time and resources. This is the main problem of some countries: the individual disappears groups where the only aim is following doctrines, theories, groups, etc... usually, these are not even democratic and once you are part of it, you can't get out of the mass. While I am writing this it coming up to my mind the army of Venezuela or separatists of Catalonia as examples.

In the other hand: if the collective is effective, both sides win, the individual and the group. It is worthy to be part of a mass which works and helps you out to improve as a citizen. When I say "effective", I mean that they act together with similar goals such as manufacturing cars, vaccines, or improving the pillars of democracy. The act together because they are aware that this is the only way to be stronger. For example: Asian countries as Japan, China or South Korea. The individual doesn't exist there, but the group or collective is unstoppable due to their efficiency. One good case to look for is the Fukushima accident. Only a efficient system/mass as the japanese could have fixed such problem in just days...

I blame myself for starting threads like this one. I raised many questions about logic whereas I don't have any clue of basic notion of philosophy of science at all! We can debate on taxes and how to be a decent citizen with honesty, but I am completely lost in this issue... I don't even remember why I started this thread. :lol:

In the other hand, you are right in your argument on what we should consider as first principles. I remember that my main error was to think in "specific" truths, while those are accessory. Aristotle used such premises in different subjects to promote a basic notion of logic (I wish I am not mistaken and I am remembering well).

Questions to explore and feed our minds with ... — Alkis Piskas

Aristotle's syllogisms and logic explore our minds and cause a lot of questions. Sadly, I am not capable to answer them but there are members in this forum with a high level in mathematics and philosophy of science and they offer a lot of answers.
What I remember about this thread is the fact that Aristotlean logic is now so simplistic compared to modern logic problems...

Your thoughts are twisted as hell...

why the galaxy needs to be valuable? I want the opposite. I wish the Galaxy is never occupied by us and it stays there, not caring about time neither the human's existence.

Then there's something different about crypto. — Agent Smith

Yes, the main cause is substitute the money and banking system as we know nowadays. Nonetheless, it is used just for speculative conspiracies and opaque businesses.

what bothers me most is that posters, often including moderators, use the Bannings thread to shit on those who have been kicked out. It is unnecessary, unbecoming, and un-philosophical. People just don't seem to be able to resist the opportunity to be petty and vindictive. — T Clark

Good point, Clarky.

If you see the label 'Banned' on someone's profile, what is your first impression? — Amity

Interesting question, Amity. To be honest, I don't have negative thoughts on some users who have the label Banned. I personally had that experience in other forum and I remember that the mods didn't even warned me...

In the other hand: The mods explain the facts of why they ban someone in the thread "Bannings", and such thread is opened for discussion few hours if you want to complain. I complained on the banning of @Bartricks but I understand that this site has rules and it is healthy for the forum to not treat with privilige "long-term users" because that would be unfair.
If they warn an user and he/she maintains the same behaviour, it is understandable the consequential banning.

All that tech is quite in use today, quite real, but not every tech investment, tech fund and especially tech start up made wonderful results. And it was crazy before the bubble burst. — ssu

:up:

One of the craziest moments related to this investment was an "international" meeting which took place in Madrid. European and Spanish institutions such as The National Securities Market Commission warned about the risks associated with cryptos and ask the organisers to please don't let teenagers to go there. They didn't care and many people believed in whatever they listened in the meeting.
Well, a few months later, cryptos plummeted and one of the main responsibles of the meeting kill himself. Now, some courts are collapsed with hundreds of claims for compensation when those citizens were already advised of the dangers of this investment...
Craziness... Cryptocurrency is dangerous to the people.

Dicens, advena fui in terra aliena.
[Moses] said, I have been a stranger in a strange land.
Exodus 2:22

I can't imagine any authority imposed on prehistoric homo sapiens other than satisfying basic needs such as food, clothing, and shelter. — Shawn

Even in primitive times, the groups needed a leader/authority to follow with the aim to get the basic needs you mentioned.

We have always experienced 'authority,' even in tiny groups. — universeness

:up:

If that painting is yours, wow excellent work and congratulations :up: :100:

The red colour implemented wake up my emotions and makes me feel so motivated.