Is the apotheosis of Bentham-Mill-ianism Kantianism, ethically that is? — Agent Smith

It is a good question, indeed. But I am not able to answer you because I don't have deep knowledge in German philosophy. Sorry, friend!

What exactly is wrong/right about cannabis anyway? — Agent Smith

It is still be a drug. It doesn't matter if cannabis is "soft" compared to cocaine or heroine. The only problem I see regarding the legalisation of drugs, more specifically psychedelics, is that the State is acting as a hypocrite. There were always been tons of advertisements against drug use. Now, it seems to be "ok" to consume them because the State sees it as profitable. As I said: it is wrong because it is full of hypocrisy.
The real aim of a public administration is to promote the health care of the citizens. You would not reach that if you decide to legalised psychedelics. If someone says those drugs are not painful to you, they are clearly lying.

How would you feel or respond if it was proven conclusively that there is an afterlife? — Andrew4Handel

Disappointed.

I'm sure the FDA has already asked marijuana companies to stick a MARIJUANA KILLS sticker on their products. — Agent Smith

Exactly! They are hypocrites as much as when they sell tobacco packets

. Expect to see novel modes of delivery and safety + quality control. Isn't that awesome? — Agent Smith

It would be awesome for the state, for sure. They now want to make it legal because they will earn a lot of profits through the taxes implemented on marijuana lots. Unless it's free...

:up:
My purpose in this OP was trying to understand what Mishima was referring to. I am bif fan of his books but I don't have a clue inside German philosophy :rofl: so... I thought: I guess somone can help me here! I think a good idea would be give a chance on Kant or Wittgenstein books!

I haven't read Mishima — Moliere

Please let me recommend you some of his important works to introduce you in Mishima's world:
The Temple of the Golden Pavilion, The Sailor Who Fell from Grace with the Sea, The Sea of Fertility tetralogy: Spring Snow, Runaway Horses, The Temple of Dawn and The Decay of the Angel

If you have time and you are interested on new original books, Mishima would not disappoint you.

Cheers! :sparkle:

Santa isn't an individual and yet is in the domain of discourse — Shawn

What do you mean when you say Santa is not an individual? you want to say that Santa is a common subterfuge.

how subjective is pain & pleasure? — Agent Smith

Good question :up:

Gothic Kabuki Theater — Nils Loc

Japanese Print Autumn — Nils Loc

So awesome!

Good points both of you. But understanding is not necessarily based in logic and mathematics. You used Gödel's theorems but we can also quote Confucianism or Aristotle's anima in terms of basic knowledge.

By imposition vis-à-vis life do you mean no one was/is/will be asked whether s/he wishes to be born? — Agent Smith

It is impossible indeed.

It is always a pleasure to debate with you, friend :sparkle: :up:

Could it be that, as someone once said to me, the point is to unlearn ununderstand or at the very least, refuse to understand? — Agent Smith

I am agree. But one of the main problems is that our awareness is difficult to understand. So I will not be able to say: I understand you! while it is hard to understand myself. It is a paradox, if you think it deeply. We try to debate about metaphysical with the aim of reaching significance meanwhile we are not really sure if we understand ourselves at all.

from (god's) nihilistic and ambiguity perspective, human thinking and human affairs must appear to be infinitely trivial and inconsequential and, quite probably, of no logical value whatsoever. — alan1000

:sparkle: :up:

And yes I think any god that creates/created humanity (flawed beings) would have to give them free will, uncertainty, a lack of omniscience so that they might learn. So if one was an omniscient god it seems to allow for free will they would have to appear absent, illusive, a non existent parent departed from what they created. To allow for true independence. — Benj96

Interesting view but that can create a paradox: A God can be illusive and non existent but at the same time it needs to be believed by somone. Otherwise, the existence and omnipotence of God would be useless. What would be the point of a God's mercy if nobody is seeing around?

Well, I guess you don't care much for ethics. — ToothyMaw

I do not even care about living... everything is full-filled by ambiguities.

You choose how to be. If you want to be non-interfering and simply observing that's your perogative. Who are we - any mere human, to question your authority? — Benj96

It is interesting that you see God as an authority. I just see it as pure escapism. I cannot figure out all the problems and uncertainties of the people because that's would be being against the nature of humanity. If you want to question my authority, please go ahead. Isn't it a real act of freedom?

Damn dude. You don't think you would do anything good if you could? — ToothyMaw

No, because I do not know what is the meaning of "good"

, what would you do with your time as this entity? — Benj96

Nothing. Why the people should expect something from me for being God?

Are you, or Mishima, arguing that people who claim be using their faith or spirituality as a guide to navigating actual day to day situations are lying to themselves or fooling themselves? Is your argument that people are hypocrites and dont practice what they profess? — Joshs

Exactly. Or at least their lives and claims are contradictory each other.

Do those principles inform your sense of how to approach concepts like honor, loyalty, friendship, fairness and justice? — Joshs

Those are exactly what Mishima is missing about. We all can have deep debates on honour, loyalty, friendship, justice, etc... but are they possible of being applied to? Are the citizens loyal? Do they care about friendship? I think not... that's the point of our criticism. We currently live in an era which is based on materialism and soft praxis. We can give a lot of definitions of fairness but are we ready to apply it?

Why is metaphysics not also a praxis? — Joshs

I didn't say it wasn't a praxis but not practical enough (at least in my own view) and that's why the metaphor of Mishima is excellent: it is a formidable building which lacks of a toliet.

What makes something a praxis and why do we value praxis? — Joshs

When we put it on in practice and then, we can check the results. I am agree in the basic fact that metaphysics starts the "beginning" of everything. I am not doubting that. But, sooner or later, we have to develop a praxis. For example: humans were always been debating about the universe. Centuries ago it was about metaphysics but now is about physics, because you can explain through laws and formulas which were born thanks to experience and praxis.

And what is useful is what is relevant, significant and meaningful to us? — Joshs

This question is object of another OP. But I would say, in my side, that a meaningful stimulus is death.

What motivates lemons to develop a. metaphysics? — Joshs

:sparkle: :eyes:

Do you think Kant’s ideas were considers useful , relevant and meaningful to him? — Joshs

I don't know. I wish we could know more about Kant and his life because we only debate about his works. I would not categorise those as "useful" but original.

then how do we understand the contrast between how humans and other animals live? — Joshs

I think Aristotle already answered this good question: Aristotle believed that animals, like humans, have purpose, and that telos is natural and unchanging. Aristotle’s Ethics and Farm Animal Welfare.

From this vantage, al even our most ‘practical actions are informed and guided by an implicit metaphysical worldview, and one could say the same for animals. — Joshs

:up: :100:

:sparkle: :100:

Understable. Good choice. But please do not forget to take substitutes of meat and animal food such as proteins. Otherwise, you could get sick without those.

Kant, I wonder what he would've said regarding the morality of torture. FYI, he was pro capital punishment. — Agent Smith

That's true! It would be interesting to see torture from a Kantian point of view. But hey, I see it coming: ethical metaphysics :eyes: :sparkle:

That's a superb summation! — Agent Smith

:up:

I (only) want to be a vegan — Agent Smith

Ethical motives or just a diet activity?

How we live. How we think. — 180 Proof

:up: :sparkle:

That's right, it is part of our nature and progress. We have two essential aspects: praxis and metaphysics.

If we don't take our life too seriously then it might be easier to deal with death. — Michael McMahon

:up: :sparkle:

You are approaching to Bushidō.

Well, you are right in the fact that understanding Mishima is complex. Nevertheless, I think we all are getting to the same point: German philosophy is pure metaphysical but lacks in a "real" practice. But it is interesting to show that Mishima is so influenced by German/Western philosophy anyway. That's the real paradox and the main point of why I wanted to start this thread.
Probably German philosophy is not practical enough but we cannot get rid of it. I mean it is one of the pillars of Western thought or philosophy.

A 'disembodied philosophy' is – has always been – incongruent with embodied agency. Mishima's correct: idealism is full of Scheiße yet lacks an asshole — 180 Proof

Well said! :up:

I like how Mishima points out German philosophy. Nevertheless, he was quite contradictory because he was influenced by Western/German culture/thought. He made a try on mixing them up with Japanese millennial culture but he discovered that idealism itself could destroy his culture then…

NASA’s Webb Reveals an Exoplanet Atmosphere as Never Seen Before

December readings:

• The Age of Blue, Yukio Mishima.
• The Guest Cat, Takashi Hiraide.
• Nip the Buds, Shoot the Kids, Kenzaburo Oe.

Re-reading: The Sailor Who Fell from Grace with the Sea, Yukio Mishima.

No. I never referred to average football fans but hooligans.

Actually I don’t care. Bye — I like sushi

If you do not care, why did you start this OP?

These hooligans I meant:


As you see some football "supporters" (hooligans) are neo-Nazis and promote violence.

the light from these stars, I simply can't believe, are from billions and billions of light years away! — Agent Smith

:sparkle: Beautiful how they show their brightness to us. Isn't it? :sparkle:

I think Socrates and other philosophers have already covered the problem of "The Qatar World Cup" in depth, and frankly, I can't think what else I could add. — enqramot

HAHA so ironic... but our posts are based on Lockean empiricism! not Ancient Greece philosophy! :lol: :sparkle:

hence asking people to ‘leave politics out of football’ whilst constantly meddling in politics and bribery. — I like sushi

:up:

Impossible to keep football out from politics when hooligans are political themselves. A lot of supporters are racist and support Fascism.

host nation has NEVER appeared in the world cup … well, that is just plain stupid. It has been getting into more and more of a sad state and I think more than simple words or ‘fines’ would help … perhaps the fans should boycott? — I like sushi

Good point on the fact that Qatar never appeared in a tournament. But it isn't an important fact according to FIFA because there are other nations which never played a big role on World Cups but they host a tournament (for example: Japan and South Korea 2002)
I see it so difficult a possible boycott from the fans. South Amercian national teams have very loyal fans. They would follow their wherever they go. They do not care if they play in Qatar or in an iceberg