The book is a steaming pile of shit, I do not recommend it at all. Save your time, most of it is just atrocious. — darthbarracuda

Finally I found someone that thinks like me about that stupid ass book! Thank you. I remember getting tired before the page 100...

Yes, it is true that both Russia and China left their embassies but I think it was “just in case” context. I was watching the news and they are not clearly saying that are against talibans. Probably there will be many chances that Russia or China would start making some contacts and see which are the real interests of Afghanistan.
To be honest, I feel they win. This mess is now focused in the failure of the Western. I totally think that Russia and China are planning something but is not the appropriate moment yet.

China's effective support for the regime may become problematic for the general discourse on human rights, — thewonder

It is true that the focus of human rights will be around China again but it looks like this country never ever cared so much about the issue so it is not effective at all…

rich countries — https://www.independent.co.uk/news/britain-charity-canada-africa-european-union-b1902578.html

Aren’t we supposed to be poor according to literally all the world?
How ironic this article was!

Selfish bastards — Isaac

Why we have to donate? Didn’t say they do not want anything from Spain anymore? Aren’t we supposed to be the bad persons due to conquista?
Spain has not obligations towards Latin America

This note was written in 2002 about Afghanistan: This meant war, which is just what the terrorists wanted. What they really wanted was probably World War III between Islâm and the West; but that was not what they got. The United States did not want to occupy Afghanistan, like the Soviets, but just to beat down the regime and its power and hunt out the leaders of the terrorists and their installations. At the same time, the old enemies of the Ṭâlibân, hanging on in the North, still with Russian support, could be encouraged and aided. Whether or not they would be able to actually retake the country, the basic American operation should be a commando or "special operations" one, long celebrated in movies, which now must be proven in practice.

Thus, a poor, bare, harsh, sad, and luckless country, Afghanistan, enters the 21th century as the cockpit of world history.

Kings of Afghanistan

he IS doesn't hold any large cities or regions as before.

Situation in February 2021: — ssu

Thanks for sharing. IS clearly lost a lot of power in Syria, so can we already speak about Al-Assad´s victory over there?

Morocco isn't a failed state with competing governments and internal disarray. Morocco doesn't have armed groups roaming around. — ssu

Well this is so interpretable... if you say is not failed state when is a feudal monarchy with zero human rights I do not understand you then. They do not even have the chance to have internal disarray because their king controls everything already. To be honest, I do not think they control the borders so efficiently. Do not remember when they allow to enter all their citizens in Spanish territory with zero reasons? or maybe the reason was not caring about the life of many moors and then, make Spain responsible if a disaster occurs both humanitarian and politically. So I do not think Morocco is a "normal" or "progressive" state. Their king does not give certainty about the defense or security so we cannot speak in general terms arguing that Morocco has not armed groups because we do not know it yet neither what is going on inside their power.

there is the Polisario — ssu

This territory, sadly, is a mess. Some say is part of Morocco, others say belongs to as an autonomy country as "Saharawi"

As Spain approaches 70% target, who is still to be vaccinated against Covid-19? :up:

Spain as a country, however, is still progressing at an enviable speed with its vaccination campaign. With 62.2% of its population having received the full protection offered by the vaccines, only Canada is ahead among the 50 most-populated countries on the planet, according to Oxford University’s Our World in Data website. Spain is yet to see its campaign stall, as has happened in other countries such as the United States, Israel, Germany and France. Experts consulted by EL PAÍS recommend that the process continue in Spain for now without offering incentives nor there being penalties for the unvaccinated, Pablo Linde reports. Fernando García López, the president of the Research Ethics Committee at the Carlos III Health Institute in Madrid, argues that is better to “convince rather than coerce, something that can polarize.” He adds: “In Spain, there is no major anti-vaccination group against which we need to fight, as is happening in other places.”

:victory:

IS has been both in Syria and in Libya, so what's your point? Both collapses gave way to IS earlier. — ssu

I am agree on Libya context... But what's the real impact in Syria? It is true that IS is around there and having army prepared to fight but I guess they not should consider as a terrorist cell or similar because they do not overtake all Syria territory yet so they are not powerful enough to make impact aspects as we are used to know. Furthermore the fact that Al Assad won his 4th elections. We can or cannot like him but he is literally the ruler of Syria. IS is there just an "enemy" and I guess Syria doesn't fall at all...


Also, even the fact that IS can have some control over Libya, they are not dangerous as other countries closer like Morocco. This country did not fall at all, is ruled by their king but at the same time IS is having a very important role over there. Barcelona attacks in 2017 or Paris 2015 were perpetrated by a terrorist cell in Morocco territory. Here is when you know the IS has a real power not in a broken country wihout control like Libya.

But I think that the collapse of Afghanistan will encourage muslim insurgents everywhere and IS will also reappear. And that is the last thing the Biden administration wants to admit. — ssu

Interesting argument but if the collapse of Syria or Libya did not encourage IS at all, why Afghanistan would do it then?

Agreed with you and good argument. I think political and lobby power do not care about Afghanistan anymore because probably is not so profitable that it used to be. You mentioned the important lobby of weapons not only dangerous but how rich many businessmen went due to this amazing “business”. Here, in this context, we have to mention other powerful market: drugs. It is so known that Afghanistan is country where marijuana or heroine are planted and then sold in Western countries. There are a lot of powerful institutions clearly connected with this because it is easy money.
The sad part of this situation is the people who is suffering it when they are not collaborating neither connected with the issue and I give you examples: the Afghan kid which sadly is raised full of violence in a broken state. The teenager who sorrowfully takes drugs that were planted in Kabul and were purchased by a rich Western ambitious businessmen.
Conclusion: here lose all the weak and civil citizens.

. Every time some naive idiot bleets sheds crocodile tears about 'saving woman and children' without at the same time pointing the finger straight at the toxic and malevolent complicity of the US in creating the situation in which those precious women and children will be subject to inhumanity, they can be safely ignored. — StreetlightX

I was not speaking in an American perspective but an European one... Europe Union did a recognizable effort about women and children’s rights in Syria crisis. I wish they do the same in this context towards Afghanistan.

Understandable. I even think that we should search more authorities. For example, What is going on with Russia or Putin? Why they do not make any decision? They were responsible for the mess occurred back between 1979 and 1989. I guess Russia can be an important authority in this context.

It entails paying attention to other people's specific needs or preferences. — Yohan

It could be useful but sometimes “good intentions” don’t matter at all and even the other person can feel intimidated for asking some questions.
I guess the diamond rule can fit better if we just respect other’s privacy and businesses

What did you expect from Joe Biden’s government? It is quite impossible to repair something that is already broken and in a mess. I think in such complex situations like this one, is The president’s responsibility protect and take all the Americans to USA.

I am not so pessimistic. I hope that the Taliban will prove us wrong, and even think that they will to a certain extent. — thewonder

I hope so but it will be so difficult the fact the would no act as authoritarian as we tend to think. They are literally taking the power by the force and they do not care all the mess of Afghanistan. Something which starts in this way will not end up pretty well... who knows if the Western needs to take the place again like in Gulf War 1991. I wish not because this was one of the worst failures that the western democracies ever did... Irak and Kuwait! Oh boy... many years wasted and death bodies in the street. But it is true that now Irak is administered under USA agencies right? Probably it was somehow worthy at all. I wish Afghanistan will not live the same experience as Irak’s.

Islamic Emirate, — thewonder

This issue still be a big problem in Syria but nobody cares now :sad:

The status of women there is certainly something that the international community ought to pay attention to — thewonder

Completely, this is the real XXIth century issue. Most of the countries are developing a lot of rights toward women. But in Islamic world are more “slower” than the rest...

Everything else, the status of women in Afghan society in particular, will have to be met, as it very well should, as the new nation develops. — thewonder

This complex and sensible situation will not be easy because of their religious belief. I guess they will even need an international refereeing or something similar to guarantee the women’s rights and security.
It is true that we don’t know how Afghanistan will look like afterwards yet but there are big probabilities that will be a chaos in different levels: some could be easy of repair, others don’t. I wish nobody has their life in risk again.

Should anyone either within or outside the Philosophy Forum read this and believe that they have some capacity to put it into effect, I would recommend that they do so in the immediate now. — thewonder

:up: :100:

Let’s see what the future holds to the Afghan citizens. I wish they would not live the same experience as Syrian refugees. Now Afghanistan is a mess but we wish Taliban forces do not go mercenary against their own population. If most Afghans want to leave I wish they do it because the situation is unbearable not because their lives are in huge risk.
Also, it is important protect women in this context. Taliban forces will not have complain about abuse and slave them. Now, UN and all international organizations should protect children and women in this weak situation.

These events have happened before and everybody hated it. We will all hate it again. And again, — Bitter Crank

True, all of these bad events already happened but I can’t say if they got removed from water. If we are lack of water we have to prepare ourselves in order to experience big wars and many deaths.

fall victim to natural disasters and unrest so that we'll have to pick of the pieces and rebound from a major setback comparable to the ancient Greek or Medieval dark age in Europe? — Enrique

To be honest and I would sound pessimistic, this is what exactly will happen to us. A big natural disaster is coming and it looks like nobody wants to stop it. Our public administration is not facing with interesting or important deals. Well, you can already notice it on Greece’s fires and all over the Mediterranean Sea. Also, important to reflect how the temperature increased so much during the last decade. Here, where I am, is 06:19 and we all already have 22º grades. It isn’t crazy.

What kinds of events will culminate this tumultuous and uncertain era in history, will society stagnate, and where will we be in a hundred or a thousand years? — Enrique

Probably a big desertification that would lead us in big war which main objective could be the search of water. But who knows? There are some chanceándote that the richest businessmen would can afford trips to Mars...
I want to say that the future is so pessimist.

He was a good king, but he was a king and not the prime minister of a liberal democracy. That's the point that I've been trying to get across. — thewonder

In this point I am completely agree with you :up:

Yes, you are right according to Afghanistan context. But you wrote that quote referring monarchy in general concepts. There are plenty of monarchies that are more developed than republican countries :chin:

A liberal democracy and a constitutional monarchy are not the same thing. — thewonder

Norway, Denmark, Sweden or Netherlands are not liberal democracies then?

Another link of interest.
Navarre & the Basques

In any case, I haven’t seen any evidence that Franco was a “Nazi” or "racist" or anything like that? Though I could be wrong. — Apollodorus

No, you are not wrong. He was not racist neither nazi. Under his regime, he promoted a lot of laws accepting double nationality with Latin American countries like Chile, Argentina, Paraguay, etc...
He also developed (ironically) a constitution to Ecuatorial Guinea.
I guess one of the objectives was abolish socialism and communism, he did not cara about race or blood purity as Hitler wanted. But oh boy! it is so difficult obligate the Basques, Catalonians or Gaelicians feel Spaniards because they have a hard attachment to their roots.

There was a wide range of different factors involved and it would be wrong to paint everything as just "Fascism". — Apollodorus

Agreed. It is so difficult to appoint a general factor to understand why Franco won a civil war which started in Canary Island and then lasted 34 damn years. There are a lot of factors but I guess the territory was key in this scenario. Furthermore francoism catholic ideas, Franco developed a map of Spain without autonomous regions. It was just "Spain" under the same law. This happened fue to one of the messes that the Republic did not avoid: the madness and changes of changing the map of spain just to satisfy the peripherals politicians (as Catalonia for example). Inside this mess, it is impossible to make a clear consensus in whatever aspect so Franco took advantage against a Republic which was already divided to territory stuff. The leftits, themselves, tend to being divided by regional issues.
So establish centralist map without territory federalism (as the Republic wanted) should ended this problems but only created others which follow until today.

Franco was a patriot who wanted to preserve Spanish culture. — Apollodorus

Interesting. I do not know how to answer this one... I do not know what is Spanish culture. It is a word which has many cultural points of view. Form my perspective, I would include Basque country but they do not feel Spanish enough... losing the Basques as nationalists was one of the biggest failures Spain ever made. We should respect more the basques, their language, culture, industries, etc... It is sad how they feel completely separated of Spain. There are zones that I do not like at all, specially the south they are lazy and live in backwards cities.
It always been so debated what is the meaning of Spanish culture and being Spaniard. I wish one day we can recover Basques. I want to live with them a period of my life and understand their way of seeing the life because they are the truest europeans not our mediterranean filthy ass abusive tourism.
What we had done wrong when they were sad and depressed whenever an ETA member died back between 70´s and 90´s.Euskadi Ta Askatasuna. Look:


There are lot of political conflicts and Basque was one of the toughest.

It seems more natural to relate "at the same time" to "be" rather than to "object": — litewave

But the object is the real subject of this Aristotle axiom. The act of potentially transforme is experienced by the object itself. The verb “to be” is just intrinsic.

I don't see that the article attributes the phrase "in the same respect" to the object. — litewave

Literally the article says:

An object can be potentially F and potentially not F, but it cannot be actually F and actually not F at the same time.

It is impossible that the same thing can at the same time both belong and not belong to the same object and in the same respect." — litewave

Aristotle meant to the object itself not the act of belonging to another.

The “same thing” that belongs must be one and the same thing and it must be the actual thing and not merely its linguistic expression. For example, it is possible for someone to be a pitcher and not a pitcher where “pitcher” in the first instance refers to a baseball player and in the second to a jug that can hold beer

Three Versions of the Principle of Non-Contradiction

Not to be pedant but Afghanistan is a Central Asian state — Olivier5

Don't worry and thank you for correct my mistake :up:

I remember some internal commentator saying glumly that Afghanistan had just taken a great leap forward into the 14th century — Wayfarer

It is interesting this news because what we consider as "XIVth century", for them, it is just living as how Quran or religion says. The talibans do not care about modernity neither civil rights. These concepts are something that we in the western have developed. It is not a real business in the Middle East.

Debating about something as complex as the rule of law in Afghanistan needs to have a better empathic view. First of all, we don't truly know what is the history of Afghans and their territory. We just know some brief articles from Wikipedia or West newspapers. It is difficult to understand such complex culture and values. For this reason I guess we should not speak about west things as "liberalism" or "monarchy" in a country of the Middle East completely surrendered by Islam principles. I guess one of the errors made back then was to establish a very "modern" state according to West values. Good intention but it was an argument to radicals to say "they are selling our Islam value to the west. The real law of Afghanistan is developed by God or Muhammad! Etc..."
Sometimes, what we consider as "modernized" principles cannot fit at all in some countries beacuse they have a sticky religion and custom beliefs. If we, the western, go there trying to "impose" what we consider as "democracy" they would do exactly the contrary.
Also, Afghanistan had bad luck in geographical aspects too. It always been a country which Soviet Unión wanted to control.

The 1964 Constitution of Afghanistan, though I am sure the regime made some progress in this regard, makes absolutely no mention of women's rights whatsoever, which is kind of a focal point in the article — thewonder

1964 is a "recent" date in relation to women's rights. I guess, according to that time, there wasn't true women rights around the world. This is another issue which took years to establish properly. We are living in an era right now that most of the women in the world don't feel discrimination but this issue was not common at all both in West and Asia world.
To be honest, the 1964 Afghanistan constitution was better than nothing. At least it was written as a parliament monarchy with its advantages and disadvantages but you know we have to start in some point better than being ruled by tribal entities.

It wasn't a modern democratic state; — thewonder

This can be another thread or debate we can discuss separately. How can we consider a State as "modern"? What is the meaning of modern?

ought not really to instill a sense of nostalgia within anyone with a healthy dose of skepticism of clandestine actions undertaken by the so-called "West" in the region. — thewonder

Yes, I am agree with you. This is due to of how sticky the tribesmen and religion is in Asia. It is so difficult to put “West values” so randomly. I guess it is a process which takes some years if the country has a chance to do so.

check out this obituary. — thewonder

The most important paragraph:

He built the country's first university, and developed cultural and commercial bonds with the West. Travellers began to view Afghanistan as an attractive destination, with its mountains, rich culture and the relics of many ancient civilisations.

It is dramatic how extreme religion or politics can destroy a country’s future and development. Afghanistan looked so attractive to all the West countries and then, since 1979 Taliban revolt the tables had turned for the worst. When you see or hear something related to Afghanistan you would think as a third world country with violence due to toxic religion which destroyed what was a good starting point for society.

Wasn't Iran a monarchy at that point? — thewonder

They were ruled by the “Shah”. It was like a monarchy but no as extremist as ayatollahs.

In an ideal world they'd let fat anti-vaxxers die instead of postponing medical treatment for other diseases because the IC is full. — Benkei

:rofl: :lol:

then carried out numerous executions once in power - not just communists, but liberals and centrists of all stripes. The aim was to roll back any progressive forces forever. — RolandTyme

Not only executions but expropriation of property of those leftists and liberals. After Franco won, his objective was to massacre all the “enemies” (when they were Spaniards too...) and then have a real “catholic and traditional state” I don’t even know why this misery lasted 34 years. This is why in nowadays there still be some wounds that are not recovered yet...

In effect, by still going by tribal law, rural Afghanistan rejected the modernity of Islam. It was only superficially converted. — Olivier5

True. Good point. But not only rural areas but sadly the most part of Afghanistan except Kabul. This country was always ruled by tribal organizations, so I guess it is not easy to establish a normal/regular administration system.

Is the rest of the universe simultaneously observing us just as we observe it? — Benj96

We do not know it yet. This a good question and an interesting debate. Liu Cixin, wrote a book about this issue called dark forest theory. This debate is all about if it is or not worhty to be obrserved by "others" in this vast universe. Check it out: The Dark Forest Theory and Paradox. I think you would like it.

In other words, we must make the efforts to win the hearts and minds of the Afghan people and network with them, co-exist, sharing tomorrow, etc. — DrOlsnesLea

Good initiative, but I guess it does not matter when Taliban group is so extremist. They do not want anything according to "west" nations or at least globalized world. They want to impose their own religious and political beliefs and ideas. We should not give up on them and still make some efforts to get Afghanistan a real free country.
Precisely, this is what happens in 1979 with Iran... which would have been a very developed country but then, radical islamists showed up.

Spaniards have plenty opportunities to learn better English with the help of the social media and other communication technologies? — Apollodorus

Good point. Apart from all the opportunities that every Spanish has to learn English, I guess it is key here to develop a "social" education system. Nordic countries are good in this issue.
Here in Spain the classes are so competitive and if they can do it they would destroy you just for some "good marks" in the exams. For this reason, if you are shy or introvert (as me for example) you would suffer a lot of "how is your English pronunciation" so I remember I didn't participate speaking in public when I was a kid at my English class.
But, I always been so lucky to have parents with money, so them paid me for four years in a row a private English teacher every Sunday. This helped me a lot to improve not only my English skills but the ability to speak in public. I remember one day reading a book. The first word of the paragraph was "schedule". I never seen it until that day so I got freeze trying to know how to say it properly, because it looked like "German" to me :rofl:
When my parents perceived this, apart from keeping me with the private teaching, they started to pay a lot of money in English education like bilingual school and college (around 800 and 1200 € per month). I went to US with a family (Texas, Arkansas, Missouri, Illinois, Wisconsin
...) and EU (UK, Ireland, Scotland...) to be "around" only with native speakers so I was forced to speak properly English to get along with.
To be honest I am so lucky to have this kind of parents who put a lot of money in my English education but I do understand that all the Spaniards have not the luck as me... Here is when the public education should do something.

I was once told by Swedish students that the reason they speak such good English is that they watch English-language movies with Swedish subtitles. — Apollodorus

I exactly do the same since my teacher recommended it. I see American or British films in English. I no longer see it in Spanish.

But do you think better English would improve Spain's unemployment figures? — Apollodorus

I guess yes. This is due to the "dependent" of Spanish economy to the exterior and international market. Not only tourism but another elements as fruits, olives, meat, wine, etc...
We depend a lot of how other countries see us, so I think English is fundamental to improve our image and get more valuable profits.