That chart surprised me for two reasons:
 
1) Why does psychology have negative return on investment? I thought psychology was very important in the USA and since the American government doesn't provide medical attendance with taxation but with insurance, it surprised me that it is in negative. Nursing and health professions return on investment is $195K. Why is psychology not located in the latter?
 
2) Why are legal studies separated from public administration and social services? I would put them all inside the bubble of social sciences. Law is considered a degree of social science and public administration here.

November 2.

Fifty nine days remain until
the end of the year.
The sun is set on the horizon
and I remember Valencia.
Sweeter grapes than the ones
of my kitchen I can’t imagine of.
I got them from a poet from Paiporta.
He said—I now feel nostalgia for him—
But he said grapes like these are only
grown near Albufera.
I put my coat on
because it is cold outside.
I start to walk until I arrive at the sunset,
remembering Valencia and
the poet from Paiporta.
 

Afterlives by Abdulrazak Gurnah.

African literature is unique and pure. Gurnah only focuses on Tanzania and Zanzibar, because these are the places where he was born and raised before moving to London.
I read 'Paradise' the last year and it was outstanding. What I've read thus far, seems to have the same narrative line. A group of helpless young people who had the bad (or good) luck—depending on how we interpret it—of experiencing the beginning of African decolonisation.

I always recommend reading Gurnah. A deserved Nobel laureate and a nice person.

My point is that "scientists" are not justified in saying that climate change made the 2024 Spanish floods worse. — Agree-to-Disagree

We are having records of high temperatures in summer and records of floods in autumn each year. Check it out, and you will see. If climate change is not making the weather worse and adverse here, what is the main cause then? By the way, I guess you could accept that climate change is a factor to take on regarding the last and coming floods. People around Valencia were interviewed—not scientists—and they said: We are used to floods in Valencia, but we can’t remember of a worse example than this year. It seems like each year the floods are more violent and destructive than the previous. They are literally experiencing the consequences of climate change.

What is your point of sharing the history and dates of Valencia's floods? We are already aware of the continuous floods in that area each year. It seems like you claim that the DANA always happened and was not caused by climate change.

My point goes deeper than this. Before the reference to Valencia natural disaster, you claimed that some folks—yourself included—don't take climate change seriously because of the behaviour of some tax-funded people and organisations. I agree. Maybe they are not facing the issue correctly. Then, I shared the 'before and after' picture of the Albufera. I think it is clear the impact of adverse weather in that region. Whether COP29 is effective or not, it is not relevant to the fact and evidence that climate change has changed the structure and surface of my country. First the 1957 Valencia catastrophe and now these floods. Did you know that because of this, the government has to build literally new roads and rails to Madrid? I think we have to take climate change seriously, at least here.

They’ll keep their heads in the sand till the bitter end. — Mikie

:up:

That's precisely what surprises me the most. Climate change deniers can suffer the consequences of adverse weather, but they seem to not care anyway. If they are trapped in a garage flooded to the top they would think: "Well, this just happens. It is normal. I am just having bad luck today."

People might start taking climate change more seriously if climate scientists "walked the walk", and didn't just "talk the talk". — Agree-to-Disagree

Shouldn't we take climate change more seriously from now on after the floods in Valencia (Spain)? I don't know where you are from, but I hope the politicians—and other responsables—of my country might start to take this crisis—because climate change is a big crisis—more seriously. Everything is destroyed; more than 160 people died. I can't accept an argument that this was a normal natural disaster. After experiencing the floods, someone has to be very mad to keep denying climate change, at least in the context and reality of Spain. Now it is time to convince people around the globe. Please don't focus only on tax-funded organisations or politicians. There are more out there who work with honesty and want to avoid the impacts of DANA, hurricanes, tornadoes, etc.

Israelis celebrating Spain flood death toll…

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If we were not members of NATO, we would already have been bombed by spangled-minded Netanyahu; that’s a given.

Hey, @BitconnectCarlos. Look at the representatives of the nice and helpless nation of Israel. Because we should have pity on them! Otherwise, we deserve to be punished by ‘karma’ and God’s mercy and heaven, etc., and the rest of nonexistent things, but what could we expect from an occupier and an artificial nation like Israel? But hey, Carlos, didn’t you say that they are cool people, but they are just a threatened nation or something? What do you say now? Tit for tat, right? If they cheer about the deaths of Spain floods, I will cheer when a Lebanese or Gaza brother takes Netanyahu or another Israeli hateful ass out, right? Do you understand my thoughts on that artificial country now? Because it seems we only have to be empathetic with Jews.

As I always say to Jehovah's Witnesses when they ring my home: show me your Crocoduck if you truly want to brainwash me!

It is cool, indeed. But if you gaze at the eyes of the women in each painting, it is very clear that it was AI-made. I wonder what would happen if we applied that tool to Dalí's paintings. It would be very interesting to see and the closest point to experiencing a trip without drugs.

I would hope if and when there is anything substantial to report, then Jamal will notify TPF members. — Amity

Yes, absolutely. You—and the rest of TPF members—will be notified when there is a substantial report. But I thought it was a good idea to provide the link to Discord to all of them who could be interested in the discussion on the other platform.

We have now been upgraded to the medium plan, so this shouldn't happen again. — Jamal

Great! Thanks! :up:

Here we go again... We already have discussed it on Discord, but since many folks—most of them― don't have this platform, so maybe some of you were unaware of what was going on. Here you have the link to the site and read what we discussed: TPF Haven. Shoutbox 2.0

Wash in a Polish creek. Isn't that what you guys do? — frank

I remember washing myself and clothes in a creek when I was a toddler. While it was enjoyable to feel the stream flowing through my hands, the government decided to outlaw this practice due to water pollution and a lack of water storage. I agree, and it is maybe one of the few things the government of my country did rightly in the past decades. It seems an innocent practice but can scare the fish off and drop bleach accidentally. By the way, why does the creek need to be Polish? There are cool and pure creeks in the Netherlands, where maybe @Tzeentch takes a bath often.

I don't run a car and walk a lot. — Baden

I do the same. I always try to go by walking to places. If it is really away from my home, I use public transport. Both trains and buses have zero emissions and are low-polluting. The price is €21.80 monthly. I have never owned a car, and I think I will never do so. Apart from the costs and pollution mainly caused by traffic jams, I think it is an evil machine. It is dangerous, and I often thought that some car brands designed the model to save the car before the driver or pedestrian.

Puerto Rico is garbage... — Paine

Unfortunately, most Americans regard everything about Hispanic countries as 'trash' or 'poor.'

Now it makes sense. I now understand why some representatives of Puerto Rico submitted a petition to the Congress of Spain requesting the chance of being part of the kingdom again. I can't see it possible, honestly. But Puerto Rico —and Cuba— should never have separated from Spain. We feel like they are naturally part of us, and we have huge connections with them culturally. I don't understand why in the 1898 war Washington attacked us with the aim of freeing them if they will be treated that badly by the same country in the future. 

They can't vote in general estados unidos elections, but they could when they were part of Spain. Benito Pérez Galdós —who closely won the Nobel Prize of Literature— was a congressman elected by puertorriqueños. It was a hoax the 1898 war.

Hey there, chubby smoked salmon, great piece of human existence.

My name is Javier. I am 27 years old. I was born in a shed, near a fjord. My childhood was basically based on two main distractions: painting my mother, father, sister, dog, and mice of my house on canvas, and fishing herrings to eat them with lemon later on. What sparked my interest in reading philosophy? Well, this is quite embarrassing, but everything started when I was coming from my school, and then I saw my father tearing and throwing tiles off the roof :rofl: . I felt scared, and I questioned myself whether that was determined by fate or not. Cool and ropey people, my family. I left them some years ago, and I flew out to Wabash (U.S.A.), where I work as a fishmonger, selling scampi but not herrings. I miss the herrings of my cosy fjord! :sweat:
Nice to meet you all. I hope we could have interactions in the future.

Here is additional basic information if you want to contact me and buy some scampi:

javixu885atgmaildotcom
Mercado municipal de Puente de Vallecas.
Calle De Martínez De La Riva, 4, Madrid, ES 28053.

What is in the video? — I like sushi

It is a great video. Basically, Mel Baggs shows us the way of communication by autistic and other cognitively disabled people. Instead of trying to learn the way they try to communicate with the world, we always labelled them as non-communicative. Mel claims that she smells things, looks at things, hears things, etc. But the way she answers to those stimuli is not the same as the standard, so most of the people would claim that she doesn't really interact with the world, which is false. The video was uploaded seventeen years ago, and some features changed to better. But when Mel did that video, most of the people considered her non-human just for the way she used communication.

Folks, I think Michael was not expecting replies at all because the headline is not worth replying!
This is the point—or even solution—to this puzzle.

I think it’s more important to get acquainted with the subject of philosophy than to start interacting on forums. — Wayfarer

Why not do both at the same time? Since joining TPF for the first time, I've learnt a lot and discovered new authors on a wide range of topics, such as when you suggested I read Alan Watts. For a beginner, I believe there will never be a suitable time to join a forum and engage in argument. Philosophy is complex, and I think it cannot be learnt in our own way.

Start reading an introductory book for philosophy—like the one you quoted by W.T. Jones—is obviously important. But since the OP seems to have thoughts like 'suffering is inevitable' I guess it will help him to read Kierkegaard or works related to existentialism rather than generic topics that could make him feel bored.

Philosophy is very vast and deep. I am more interested in reading books about dreams/awareness than logic, although these are philosophy. @AlienVareient needs to set his preferences. :smile:

Hey, @Metaphysician Undercover and @Ø implies everything. I am reading Fosse again. "Septology" consists of seven different books, but it is interesting to see how the characters of other novels also appear here. I just started with the first volume, and I know this will be a long run and effort when there are six more books left. Yet it is a worthy author to take into account and debate about his works. If you do not mind, I would like to share with you the following paragraph:

Ales is sitting in the lounge. He feels cold and tired. Ales thinks it is a good idea to go to the kitchen and drink alcohol. After that, he will start to turn off all the lights in the house slowly. Then he will sort the house if it is necessary. After all of this, Ales will go to the sea, and he will join the waves and walk until he reaches the profundity. But why does Ales think in all of this? Why does Ales want to join the sea and the waves? He was just sitting in the lounge, and he thought it was a good idea to drink alcohol to stay warm and sort the house. But it is impossible to get rid of the idea of going to the sea and joining the waves.

Note: Maybe Ales is actually a woman. @Ø implies everything could say us whether Ales is a male name or not.

I don't know if you remember it guys, but we talked about how Fosse used silence and pause regarding death. I don't know to what extent Ales committed suicide, because everything appears to be a blurry idea in his mind. Perhaps Fosse is showing how Ales wants to kill himself, but this could not be a spontaneous idea, and this is why he feels overwhelmed by these ideas. Nonetheless, it is interesting why Ales wants to turn off all the lights and sort the house. Is this a reference to silence? Pause maybe?

Ah, I get it now. Fantastical nonsense also refers to the crap written in a book by cliché authors. Sorry, I misunderstood you.

Not recommended if you are seeking some fantastical nonsense. — I like sushi

Why do fantastic themes have to be senseless? Maybe some readers want to read facts and historical events with accuracy, but I would not call the Iliad —for example— a nonsense fantasy tale.

@T Clark

Clarky, it has been a while since the last time I shared with you a film recommendation. Today is Friday, so it is film fest in my home. I would like to suggest you watch "Burnt by the Sun" by Nikita Mikhalkov. It is a post-Soviet era film. I watched it in September, but I want to watch it again because—in this long piece— there are a lot of beautiful details that I might have lost the first time.

I am aware that it received well critical reception back in the 1990s, and maybe you already watched it... but I thought it was a good idea to let you know!

Then I realized it has a double meaning: Morel as he appears has been invented too, in a sense (am I remembering it correctly?). — Jamal

Yes, you remembered it correctly!

@Jamal I found on YouTube the songs that were constantly playing at the museum. I think these are the best versions and fit with the ambient written by Casares. :smile:

The Other Name: Septology I. by Jon Fosse.

Let us know what you think of it when you're finished. — Jamal

I just finished reading the book. :smile:

My thoughts:

I) The first 20 pages of the book describes the scenario and perception of the ambient with great precision. I like how Casares goes with the rhythm of the music played by the guests —Valencia and Tea for two— and the footsteps in the upper floors. I searched on Internet and I found that these plays influenced writers and artists once, and Herman Hesse also reffered to Valencia while living dreamlike vivid experiences.

II) The woman (Faustine) with the colourful scarf who is sitting on the rocks, watching the sunset. Although I believed in her existence since the first time she appeared in the book, her enigmatic presence puzzled me. I even thought that maybe the protagonist actually dreamt about her, and everything was a product of his imagination.

III) The role and persona of Morel are obscure. I don't attempt to criticise this character, but following the dialogues, it is clear that he has hidden something since the first time he showed up in the story. Like most of the characters, he looks like a shadow reflected in the wall.

IV) When I was getting to the last pages of the book, I came to this conclusion: The museum and people inside it existed once, and due to Morel's invention, they are getting repetitive in an endless grasp of time. They look like a vivid portfolio or photograph. But I highlight that this is not an invention per se; those strange inhabitants of the island were normal people once.

A fantastic and very well written novel. The title is tricky, like The Dream of Heroes. Invention and Dream are used in a metaphorical or rhetorical sense. It is hard to see where the line of dreams and invention actually starts. What is real or a product of our imagination, etc. Casares was a master of this.

Suffering is inevitable anyways — AlienVareient

Great! If you have that in mind, you should start with Kierkegaard or reading Dostoevsky.

Hello and welcome to the forum, mate.

Philosophy is complex and wide. Are you interested in some notions of philosophy or something more specific? 

Reading philosophy books is important, but don't be shy to start a thread here on what you want to discuss or learn. Dreamlike, hallucination, art, our mind and the world, etc., always interested me and I learnt a lot asking questions here.

There is also a 'currently reading' thread where you can ask for book recommendations.

The fact that both in Spain and Finland there will be far more less children in the future doesn't make me more hopeful that things will get better. Even with the health care of children. — ssu

Well put, ssu. :up:

But your point seems to indicate they can be internal (mental) entities private to you.  Could it be related to Kant? — Corvus

Yes, it is a Kantian point of view. I know that scientists claim that time and space are external entities, but as I said previously, I tried to explain that my argument was not under that frame but another perspective. The basic premise is that we try to determine a basic sense or notion, and for this reason we tend to discard dreams for several reasons. Nonetheless, we usually dream with past experiences, people, and places, and I wouldn't name these dreams as 'illusions' because I literally experienced this in the past. Otherwise, I had to admit that what I lived in the past is somehow not plausible.

Your dreams are interesting, and they have a common set: you custody a place. So, we can say that your dream has a bit of coherence at least. For some complex reasons that are very difficult to explain because dreams are puzzled, you also custody a city. Sometimes is full of elements (water, terraces, subterranean networks, etc.), and others is empty. This has meaning, I am sure. Because yourself is not changing in the dream but the place or scenario. According to your dreams, wouldn't you accept that there could be two realities? Yourself as a custodian of a meditation centre and then as a custodian of those dreamlike cities, which could lack common sense, but I wouldn't label them illusional.

It is true that common sense and illusion can interfere with dreams. Our minds—maybe imposed by social frameworks—always try to have a notion of reality, and it is sad how we discarded the value of dreams for this reason. If I dream about a past experience, I wouldn't say it is an illusion. It is just a memory who is showing up again in a dream. Nonetheless, if I dream with non-existing things, I guess I would have to label it as an illusion. Yet I wouldn't say that all dreams lead me to illusional notions.

and

Interesting. So, one of the main issues regarding forming up a quorum or putting in practice "direct democracy" is that most people don't usually attend, as I expected.

I guess if most people choose not to assist, this could mean they are not very interested in taking part in decisions (or even vote), and I don't know whether this is positive or not. Forget my idea of making it mandatory. It is obvious that it will not help, and it will cause the opposite effect. Making the people not assist. 

How many people make up a quorum? It would be very unrepresentative if only a handful showed up to a meeting to make decisions, — BC

Good question. I don't think there is a quorum. I'm not sure of that. — T Clark

What if we made it mandatory form a quorum with at least half of the possible attendees?

@ssu

Hello, ssu.

This sad and tough poster has been around in most Madrid metro and train stations recently.

It says: Mum, I want to be Finnish. Children diagnosed with leukaemia have more chances of surviving in Finland than in Spain.

We have an old and backwards ass protocol to provide help and support to those children and their families, and our state doesn't give a shite (mean word, sorry) on this, and it is unfair how a child with leukaemia has more chances of getting better in one country than another. The national health care system in my country is now in the deepest part of the pit. It is not private but public. When I see this, I think: Where do my taxes go?

Are you sure about this? Maybe they just want the war to be over and go back to pre-10/7 life. Hundreds of Hamas surrendered today; I think they're getting sick of it. — BitconnectCarlos

Yes, I am very sure about my point. It is dreamy to think that there is a chance to come back to the context prior to October 7th. This date did critical damage to the collective thought and soul of Israel. Like to the Americans in September 11th or here in 2004 Madrid bomb attacks. Do not expect to go back to pre-10/7 life. It looks like it is acceptable to take Sinwar out because he is a terrorist. But this is the way Iran, Lebanon, Gaza, etc. think about Netanyahu. They will keep attempting to take him out. Will you feel safe in a nation whose president is in perpetual thread with their neighbours? Then, this will be another reason for Netanyahu to keep bombing, and this is why I can't see peace in the long term.

You are viewing this conflict through a European lens. — BitconnectCarlos

And you are viewing this conflict through a religious lens because:

God grants victories. — BitconnectCarlos

What God?
What religious text? Quran or Talmud?
What prophet? Muhammad or Abraham?
See? This conflict is endless because it always leads to religious differences and hostility. I am right and you are wrong because my holy book says so; don't try to argue why.

Think of a unicorn for example. Its a horse with a horn on its head. Now make a duocorn. That's a horse with two horns on its head. Keep going. That's why you can dream of things you've never seen before. — Philosophim

Well, in your example, we could agree that we saw the unicorn before because it is a combination of two previous existent elements in our world. A horse and unicorn. I think it would be interesting to dream something you didn't see before and our creativity cannot process.

I agree. Time and space are even experienced in dreams. I usually have a frequent dream where I am in a bar with a classmate of mine. This bar no longer exists, and I hadn't seen that girl for years. When I dream about this, I am aware that I am in the past. I am experiencing memories and a sweet sense of nostalgia. Time could not exist on a material level, but it is an important feature of what we consider real and dreams. But my point is that if I dream about the past, this is not necessarily leading me to a deception. So, we have to be careful of using these frames as a notion of reality.

Interesting posts and points from you all. I think what Corvus had in mind is very important, and I agree with him that while dreaming, we often see people and places that are not known to us. But why does this happen? NoAxioms states that we can't attempt to acquire information that is not there (in the dreams). Honestly, I think that the way we could approach the complex world of dreams (and nightmares!) is using a bit of imagination rather than explaining or arguing whether the gold spoon exists in the non-existent world or not. My basic point: I believe the two worlds (dreamlike and real) exist.

The people and objects located in them are accessories, and they pass through, but without altering the order. We have to keep in mind an important feature, and it is the fact that I exist in both worlds. Therefore, if I am conscious of myself in dreams and reality, they are existent worlds to me. Dreams are just more complex and blurred, but plausible. It is not possible to see a clock melting like in Dali's painting. But who am I to deny the possibility of this in my dreams? If clocks melt in my dreams, this is at least real in one part of my two worlds.