Remaining in positions smashed to pieces over many months just for the sake of staying there does not make sense," Serhiy Gaidai, governor of the wider region, said on Ukrainian television on Friday
perhaps you haven't listened to Apollodorus, who has promoted the idea that Russia has the most justification for Crimea. — ssu
Read the news. 90% of the buildings in Sievierodonetsk have been destroyed by the Russians. — Tate
The current RF preferred tactic as seen in Ukraine is to seek the complete annihilation of the enemy's civilians and military. — Olivier5
In the case of the Russian aggression, one has the impression of an enterprise of total annihilation of the territory to be conquered, civilians and soldiers, men, buildings and things. — Olivier5
As things stand, people generally defend their egos, and they do so with their lives and property, and the lives and property of others. — baker
History is repeating itself. People watched on as Nazism grew, and did nothing. — baker
The current RF preferred tactic as seen in Ukraine is to seek the complete annihilation of the enemy's civilians and military. — Olivier5
I think this thread can use a little bit of French love. — Olivier5
Who will find the best legend for it? — Olivier5
The 'stakes' being US hegemony, which is worth as much global death and suffering as required for its maintenance. — Streetlight
I suspect that Russia is not included in Russel's 'domination of the White Man' — unenlightened
it could be that the reason why this thread has so much verbal violence on display is NOT that it is merely a political thread (hence non philosophical) but on the contrary, that we are circling around a deeply metaphysical question, that hasn’t been teased out yet. — Olivier5
... caca ... caca ... the biggest caca ... — Olivier5
... dogmatic bullshit ... — Streetlight
... load of bullshit ... — creativesoul
... shit ... — Streetlight
... shitty ... — neomac
ECFR’s research shows that, while Europeans feel great solidarity with Ukraine and support sanctions against Russia, they are split about the long-term goals. They divide between a “Peace” camp (35 per cent of people) that wants the war to end as soon as possible, and a “Justice” camp that believes the more pressing goal is to punish Russia (25 per cent of people). In all countries, apart from Poland, the “Peace” camp is larger than the “Justice” camp.
your efforts to justify Russian aggression are equally shit and no less trash. — Streetlight
It's also pretty funny coming from someone whose post history in this thread is littered with jeers made for infants. — Streetlight
But then you immediately continue... — ssu
Russians both think of Ukraine as a sister nation but accept it's reasonable to invade the country for land? That doesn't make much sense to me. — Judaka
Of course, it is needles to say (except for you), that Germany invaded Poland, which started WW2. — ssu
Showing that brotherly love now to your sister, right? — ssu
:up:Then stop complaining about Russia — baker
it is clear that the grip of Western mainstream media and governments is loosening. — Judaka
Similarly, the Russian public seems to support Putin because of the effectiveness of his propaganda. — Judaka
This year, June 6 went by, no mention of the Invasion of Normandy. Normally in the time around June 6, national televisions show documentaries about D-Day, the daily film is "Saving Private Ryan", and such. But not this year. — baker
Now is a time when things are shifting. We're going to — there's going to be a New World Order out there, and we've got to lead it
It's very rare that we can argue that some invasion was legitimate. — ssu
...to refer everything that has happened in history. Right. — ssu
In my mind history isn't at all ethical. — ssu
If one person gets away with murder, should the next person accused be automatically acquitted? — Judaka
Lumping everything together into one abomination of anger in text certainly isn't helping to turn these discussions into something productive. — Tzeentch
To argue I’m in the “pro-NATO” camp is untrue, and lazy. — Xtrix
Not only don’t I “dismiss” them, I hold them. — Xtrix
We've got new tools now that allow the vast majority of people to have a different and previously unattainable perspective. Better to make use of that and do something new. — Judaka
To do so also undermines the fact of the very real and very immoral role the US (and, therefore, NATO) has played in this crime. — Xtrix
What a load of bullshit. — creativesoul
not every fifth Iranian died because of the invasion, like what happened to the Polish. — ssu
It's just fine if Putin does the same... — creativesoul
'A joke explained is a joke lost' — Wayfarer
What's clearly needed is the much more firm, down-to-earth explanation that he's been possessed by the ghost of a long dead dictator. Much more reasonable. — Isaac
The Germans were encircled on all sides by France, Russia, and the British Empire. Stalin had started war preparations against Germany back in 1926, long before Hitler came to power. Stalin's Communist International (COMINTERN) aimed to create a Soviet-controlled United States of Europe. Invading Poland was the logical step toward invading Russia in a defensive war. — Apollodorus
Does the assassination of Putin's political opponents(who are Russian citizens) influence your view? — creativesoul
Do you trust that Putin is an honest goodwilled actor in all this? Does the assassination of his political enemies influence your view? — creativesoul
What would you suggest be necessarily included for a long lasting treaty between Ukraine and Russia? — creativesoul
I agree with that. And I would add give back Palestine to the Palestinians, Russia to the Russians, and Ukraine to the Ukrainians. — Olivier5
Do you think the invasion of Poland by Hitler and Stalin was legitimate too? — Olivier5
A major rebellion of self-governed Ukrainian Cossacks inhabiting south-eastern borderlands of the [Polish-Lithuanian] Commonwealth rioted against Polish and Catholic oppression of Orthodox Ukraine in 1648, in what came to be known as the Khmelnytsky Uprising. It resulted in a Ukrainian request, under the terms of the Treaty of Pereyaslav, for protection by the Russian Tsar. In 1651, in the face of a growing threat from Poland, [Ukrainian military commander] Khmelnytsky asked the Tsar to incorporate Ukraine as an autonomous duchy under Russian protection. – Wikipedia
The United States and its European allies share most of the responsibility for the crisis. The taproot of the trouble is NATO enlargement, the central element of a larger strategy to move Ukraine out of Russia’s orbit and integrate it into the West. – Why the Ukraine Crisis is the West’s Fault
There is no question that Vladimir Putin started the war and is responsible for how it is being waged. But why he did so is another matter. The mainstream view in the West is that he is an irrational, out-of-touch aggressor bent on creating a greater Russia in the mould of the former Soviet Union. Thus, he alone bears full responsibility for the Ukraine crisis.
But that story is wrong. The West, and especially America, is principally responsible for the crisis which began in February 2014. It has now turned into a war that not only threatens to destroy Ukraine, but also has the potential to escalate into a nuclear war between Russia and NATO.
Who Crimea belongs to is open to debate. — Olivier5
A large number of weapons sent to Ukraine will eventually fall into the hands of criminals in Europe and beyond, the director general of Interpol said on Wednesday (June 1st), urging states to take an interest in tracing these weapons.
“The wide availability of weapons during the current conflict will lead to the proliferation of illicit weapons in the post-conflict phase," German Jürgen Stock told the Anglo-American Press Association in Paris, where he had visited from Lyon, Interpol's headquarters. "Criminals are already focusing on this right now," he continued, seeing in the European Union "a likely destination for these weapons, because the prices of these firearms on the black market are significantly higher in Europe, especially in the Scandinavian countries."
Putin's high- school teacher couldn't remember Vlad, he was such a colorless and unexceptional pupil. — Wayfarer
Ukrainians and their allies are worthy of praise, since Ukraine is acting in self defense. — Olivier5
The zones of influence assigned to each government shall be as follows: The English zone: The Cossack territories, the territory of the Caucasus, Armenia, Georgia, Kurdistan. The French zone: Bessarabia, the Ukraine, the Crimea … ‘
When the Soviet Union was collapsing in late 1991, Dick [Cheney] wanted to see the dismantlement not only of the Soviet Union and the Russian empire but of Russia itself, so it could never again be a threat to the rest of the world
The collective west wants to divide our society... to provoke civil confrontation in Russia and to use its fifth column to strive to achieve its aim. And there is one aim - the destruction of Russia
(p. 157) Moving so quickly after the collapse of the Soviet Union to incorporate so many of its formerly subjugated states into NATO was a mistake. Trying to bring Georgia and Ukraine into NATO was truly overreaching. The roots of the Russian Empire trace back to Kiev in the ninth century, so that was an especially monumental provocation. So NATO expansion was a political act, not a carefully considered military commitment, thus undermining (p. 158) the purpose of the alliance and recklessly ignoring what the Russians considered their own vital national interests. During the Cold War, to avoid military conflict between us, we had to take Soviet interests into account. When Russia was weak in the 1900s and beyond, we did not take Russian interests seriously. We did a poor job of seeing the world from their point of view, and of managing the relationship for the long term. All that said, I was now President Bush’s secretary of defense, and I dutifully supported the effort to bring Georgia and Ukraine into NATO. (p. 159) I made a difficult situation with Russia worse by signing off – the day after I was sworn in as secretary in December 2006 – on a recommendation to the president that the United States locate ten long-range missile defense interceptors in Poland and an associated radar installation in the Czech Republic. The Russians saw the proposed deployments as putting their nuclear deterrent at risk and as a further step in the “encirclement” of their country ….
He was not, from what I can tell. But maybe he will clarify what he was trying to say. — Olivier5
This is ridiculous Apollodorus. There is a big difference between an organization like NATO expanding because other countries are willfully joining, and a country expanding through forceful invasion of another. — Metaphysician Undercover
Sweden and Finland are heading for NATO membership as a result of the invasion. — jorndoe
What does that mean in practice, though? — Olivier5
Justice is that state in virtue of which a just man is said to be capable of doing just acts from choice, and of assigning property – both to himself in relation to another, and to another in relation to a third party – not in such a way as to give more of the desirable thing to himself and less to his neighbor, but assigning to each that which is proportionately equal (Nicomachean Ethics 1134a).
What do you call Russia's activities then? — jorndoe
Moscow: We're not gonna invade Ukraine
Washington: Russia's definitely about to invade Ukraine — ssu
We have made it clear that any further movement of NATO to the East is unacceptable. Is there anything unclear about this? Are we deploying missiles near the U.S. border? No, we are not. It is the United States that has come to our home with its missiles and is already standing at our doorstep. Is it going too far to demand that no strike systems be placed near our home? What is so unusual about this?
U.S. Deputy Secretary of State Wendy Sherman, however, made it clear that Russia's proposals are not on the table. Russian demands that Ukraine be barred from NATO membership and that the alliance cut back its deployments in Eastern Europe are "non-starters for the United States"
Potentially, the most dangerous scenario [for U.S. domination] would be a grand coalition of China, Russia, and perhaps Iran, an ‘antihegemonic’ coalition united not by ideology but by complementary grievances.
they do a fair amount of manufacturing. — Tate
Russian manufacturing activity expanded in May after three months of contraction and price pressures eased notably. The S&P Global Purchasing Managers' Index (PMI) rose to 50.8 from 48.2 in the previous month, climbing above the 50.0 mark that separates expansion from contraction for the first time since January.
Okay, but I'm saying NATO biiiiig caca. — Olivier5
… the preference for a narcissistic one-way relationship where one party gets to define all the terms of engagement, and the other party is supposed to comply. The other party has no say. — baker
As hundreds of thousands of migrants arrive at the southern border each month, the Biden administration is looking to Spain to take in more Central Americans – New York Post
It wasn't an international border. Once states break away and get their independence, it's different. — ssu
One need not have to be put in the default position of *having* to say, "Putin's invasion of Ukraine is a major crime.", every time one want to make a point about how poorly the West in handling this situation. — Manuel