You give the impression you haven't read what I've said either about this discussion or the poster who got banned. So, you've had your chance to bring up something of substance and all you can come up with is "sublimated" racism, and no evidence for it. So, there's no reason to keep this discussion open.

More Fox News calling out Trump as a traitor. Good for them as it doesn't sell well with Trump
supporters many of whom will stick their hands over their ears and pretend they can't hear.

The view from a long term member of the intelligence community Trump denigrated:

"Explain to me...why we [protected the US]? So the President can say I don't trust American intelligence but I do trust the adversary that fomented revolution overseas in favour of communism and that murdered people in the UK? That's why we did [our] service? ...it's not only political, there's personal aspects to this...it's painful."

The video also shows Chris Wallace, who's one of the better Fox News commentators (along with Shep Smith), taking on Putin in a way Trump was afraid to.

Non-sequitur and I don't know or care for sure. But I suppose it is plausible that starting an enquiry into interference by a foreign power into your elections that has bipartisan support could in part be motivated by concern for your country seeing as sitting back and allowing such interference to happen would damage your country. Isn't that obvious to you?

Well, sure, we know how he thinks, which is to put himself before everything including his country. Not so good in a President and especially not so good in a commander-in-chief, but I agree it's still unlikely he'll be impeached, which some of us opponents do not particularly want if it means Pence as a replacement.

It's a matter of perspective whether you see this as a tragedy or as a comedy. — Hanover

As I said before, as long as he doesn't start a war, I'll vote comedy.

I thought my shock content was all used up to until I saw that. And then last night I saw a story about a private youth detention centre (i.e. children's jail) in Pennsylvania where the owners paid judges millions of dollars to lock up kids for up to a year on the basis of minor transgressions, for example, writing an online page mocking their school principal (again, so much for American free speech). The payments were due to the fact that the more inmates there were, the more money for the prison contractor got: Viva Capitalism! On top of that, the kids were kept in beyond the length of the sentences given on the discretion of the prison employees. This is the kind of capitalist nightmare the far right want to turn the whole country into.

Informative and surreal.

I suspect I am soon to be banned also. — Marcus de Brun

Not unless you PM us to tell us to "fuck off" (or do something else egregious). And judging by your record, I don't expect that.

But before the inevitable, there is an opportunity to consider if something a bit severe is going on? — Marcus de Brun

That's what you're doing and being allowed to do here isn't it? I don't agree with you but I'm just one mod.

Perhaps a moderator 'caution' or warning — Marcus de Brun

He did get a caution and his response was "fuck off". So, he got banned. Sorry, but you're not making much sense.

@Hanover is a playa. Who knows what dark maneuverings he's up to? ;)

also, check out the comments section on Breitbart: Breitbart

It's the same type of insanity raza is peddling here. — Benkei

I did and it's all about wishing McCain gets cancer and fuck everyone and fake news and the usual ignorant stupidities of his base, but there is also in and around there some discomfort at his weakness, which is somewhat new. But sure he'll keep the 20-25% hardcore xenophobic base that read Breitbart. He will lose enough overall though, doesn't have to be much, to be unelectable.

Very good article but that was almost a year ago. Republicans above all appreciate strength. Now that Trump has shown himself twice, first with May but more spectacularly with Putin to be at the very least weak and a coward, and debateably a traitor too, his goose is well and truly cooked, and I for one will be enjoying seeing him get eaten all the way up to 2020.

In other words this:

I think it does, and it is perhaps the single greatest reason that Race (if it exists) cannot escape the ism. — Marcus de Brun

being something so contrary to all the available evidence, your OP should contain some justification for your position otherwise we are likely to consider it mere ideological maneuvering, and/or provocation.

Internetstranger's post was unsupported speculation. Your OP about Trump had potential, but it ended up by you simply asking people to write "what they love about Trump". Which is perfectly fine, but Trump's supporters were already doing that in the other Trump discussion, right? So we'd end up with two discussions with Trump supporters writing what they loved about Trump and others disagreeing. What would the difference have been in your view? If, on the other hand, you had had an obvious philosophical angle in there or something more specific like an analysis of Trump foreign policy etc, I would have supported leaving it separate.

Again I don't wish to sound truculent or offend the Moderators whom I firmly believe are doing (on the whole) a great and unappreciated job, however alternative thinking (outside the box) should not become the enemy of Philosophy. — Marcus de Brun

I much appreciate you saying that, but I don't yet think that there's evidence that we are unfairly treating alternative thought. We only ask for a certain level of rigor in philosophical OPs not a particular viewpoint (political or otherwise). All viewpoints within the scope of the guidelines are welcome (I also told internetstranger that before he told me to "fuck off" by the way).

Does formal education upon the subject of race, embody, preserve and foster the sublimated form of the 'ism'? — Marcus de Brun

No of course not, any more than educating people about war fosters violence, or educating them about drugs fosters drug addiction, or educating them about corruption fosters corruption, or educating them about colonialism fosters colonialism, and on and on. And considering more and more people have received a formal education over the past couple of hundred years and less and less people are racist as is evidenced by the fact that we almost exclusively no longer have slavery, apartheid or other overt forms of extreme discrimination in advanced democracies, that should be obvious. Or from the fact that in a given society more racism tends to come from the less educated, or from the fact that ignorance does not in general tend to fuel virtue, etc. So, there is really no content to what you've written, certainly no empirical or philosophical content, simply baseless speculation that something that is obviously not true might be true. If you do have an actual argument why this should be so or some evidence to show how increased education causes increased racism in terms of statistics, data etc, please present it now or this will go the same way as internetstranger's OP.

Some great thought is being moderated out of the forum, and some great thought is being banned, or moved. — Marcus de Brun

Can you give an example, please?

:naughty:

Banned @InternetStranger for responding to a PMed instruction to increase the quality of his OPs (if he intended to post them in the philosophical categories) with, and I quote, "fuck you". He would likely have been banned for low quality eventually anyway. This poster also had a sockpuppet account which has been banned too.

Closed due to lack of philosophical content.

The Russian Ministry of Foreign Affairs gleefully Tweets support for Trump shooting his own country in the face.

Best we learn to saver those cheap and traditional pleasures which are above the cranial and legislative reach of that sad and tremendous orange tempest we all so know and love to hate — VagabondSpectre

Aye, man the pumps, plug the holes, the orange tide shall not sink us, but be the buoy of our rhetorical rafts!

Grown man meets the love child of Judas Iscariot and Homer Simpson.

Damn, did he say really that..?

Oh...

https://people.com/politics/donald-trump-sex-princess-diana-hiv-test-howard-stern-interview/

Trump will be remembered as the loud and long honk of a (hopefully) near miss when America fell asleep at the wheel. When it's all over I reckon America will take a good long look at itself and swear off a few of it's more retarded habits. — VagabondSpectre

Agreed.


Maybe we're talking at cross-purposes. I'm not necessarily claiming the Republicans will do something about it. But the images of Trump betraying his country in front of Putin will be played on a loop by the Dems in any future election campaign he participates in. And the Republicans are outflanked. They are the traditional patriots. And now any of them who continue to support Trump can be plausibly painted as enablers of a traitor. So, my interpretation just differs from yours. I think you're being too negative about the American public's ability to recognize finally what Trump is and reject him. Not all of them but enough to make his running again futile. Remember, he already lost the popular vote to Hillary Clinton, who was hated by the left and the right, and he squeaked through on the electoral college. You tell me who he could now possibly not lose to in 2020?

Another prediction, this time a short term one. Based on the fact that Trump is a coward as he showed when he had to faceTheresa May and reversed his Sun interview criticisms, it'll be the same here. As soon as he's safely out of Putin's gaze he'll change his tune and try to clean up the mess. — Baden

This has already started with Trump tweeting he has GREAT confidence in his intelligence agencies. The same ones that are carrying out a "witch hunt" against him and he just said he believed Putin over... :chin:

But starting a war on fabricated evidence killing thousands is worse and nobody cared enough to vote him out. — Benkei

I agree, but there's no necessary rational basis to this. Americans will forgive that but treason not so much.

Nobody needs to be convinced. Many conservatives are already attacking him and there's enough that he's finished imho.

Another prediction, this time a short term one. Based on the fact that Trump is a coward as he showed when he had to faceTheresa May and reversed his Sun interview criticisms, it'll be the same here. As soon as he's safely out of Putin's gaze he'll change his tune and try to clean up the mess. This time he went to far with his toadying though and it won't work.

This is a completely different level. I dont remember Fox News and Republicans calling Bush "disgusting" and a "traitor". When even your own supposed partisans start turning on you, it's special.

Of course. I'm no oracle. I'm just saying I personally am convinced he's gone and am just going to sit back and enjoy it.



I really don't know, mate. Better to ask @Hanover or @Ciceronianus the White about the legal stuff.

We'll see. I guess I just have more faith in America than you and Benkei.

He might limp through until 2020. Republicans won't impeach him over this. But he's a dead clown walking now. Americans do have some self-respect.

Definitely more plausible now, although I'm still not sure on that one. What I am sure about is that Trump is politically dead, so sit back and enjoy his demise. Whether he intended it or not, he took the side of an American enemy over his own defense forces and metaphorically urinated over the graves of every soldier who sacrificed their lives for America (and this is a guy who thinks the NFL is unpatriotic :s ) Even Breitbart are highlighting his treachery on their front page (although he still has his nutty supporters behind him. In the comments section on an article highlighting John McCain's criticism of Trump, a not untypical response from a Trump supporter reads: "I hope cancer wins its battle with John McCain". :sad: )



There are enough Americans who care about their country on both sides to bury this narcissist.

Traitor Trump's next election slogan: Make America Gulag Again!

He's finished. I'm calling it now. No second term for Putin's poodle. He probably won't even run.

Quoth John McCain: "no prior president has ever abased himself more abjectly before a tyrant."

"At a time when our democracy faces grave threats, it is deeply troubling that the president would side with the very country who attacked us."

http://www.foxnews.com/opinion/2018/07/16/putin-eats-trumps-lunch-in-helsinki-this-is-no-way-to-win-against-russia.html

Fox News and Republicans at last are getting it right.

I hear Putin was asked if he had compromising material on Trump and he skirted the issue rather than answer with a "no". — Michael

He would probably skirt it anyway. I would if I were him. He has nothing to gain by either answering yes or no, and everything by keeping the mystery alive. Although I am more likely to think he does now as Trump was servile (to the degree that members of his own party are calling him a traitor, which is unprecedented) and maybe that was partly out of fear. I don't know though, it's also possible he sees himself as a pragmatist with regard to Russia and is just going about it all wrong. You never know with Trump. I don't think he's aware of how weak the whole thing has made him look. He lives in a bit of a bubble.

https://www.newsweek.com/what-treason-trump-putin-1026808

"Among those lambasting Trump was former CIA Director John Brennan, who said the performance from the United States president was “nothing short of treasonous.”

Meanwhile, Abby Huntsman, a Fox News host and daughter of the U.S. ambassador to Russia, John Huntsman said that “no negotiation is worth throwing your own people and country under the bus.”

When even Fox News are getting on the treason train...

More:

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/2018/07/16/republican-lawmakers-call-trump-putin-meeting-shameful/788752002/

After the news broadcast from Finland, former U.S. Rep. Joe Walsh tweeted that Trump "speaks more favorably of Putin. TRUMP WON'T STAND WITH HIS OWN COUNTRY. That's it. That should be the final straw. It is for me."

In a subsequent tweet, Walsh said: "Trump was a traitor today. I cannot & will not support a traitor. No decent American should."

Hard to unite Fox News, CNN, Dems and Republicans but that that press conference was an embarrassment and possibly treasonous seems to have done the trick.

In the first meeting, Trump winks at Putin. Then during the press conference he takes Putin's side over his own country on election meddling. Traitor or buffoon? As usual, who knows?