How can I think through a thought without breaking my own structure of thinking or undoing my own reasoning? — GreekSkeptic

It's not causation. It's memory retrieval. — L'éléphant

Could you expand on this? I have Thought A and then retrieve a memory so as to have Thought B? Why that particular memory? — J

Causation is physical. — L'éléphant

We can stipulate that, certainly. Do you think there's an argument for why it must be the case, or does it represent a kind of bedrock commitment to how to understand the concept? — J

The question is whether the movement from one thought to another is a type of causation, and if it is not, how should we describe this familiar experience? — J

Then the difference between the environmental policies of let's say Trump's US and EU are hugely different. This all makes this seem to be a weak link as the US is one of the richest countries, but as with many other indicators, not at all with the best indicators (health, corruption, etc). — ssu

Does that mean that philosophy is a fool's enterprise? No, its an ideal that every human being struggles with. We all have a bit of ego, and we all fail at thinking at times. The point is to get back up. Yes, the pressures of the world and yourself may have won today, but there's always the next day. Never stop thinking and never stop questioning even basic assumptions and outlooks. That is what pushes us forward. That is the purpose of philosophy. — Philosophim

But gift-giving in and of itself, at least once a year, perhaps to commemorate a religious story of such, or perhaps just to do because "it is better to give than receive" or simply because yes people, especially kids, do enjoy receiving new and useful things, surely isn't immoral or otherwise something civilization and society would be better off without? — Outlander

IMHO the most important parameter is “carrying capacity”. This is the number of living organisms (crops, fish, trees, people) which a region can support without environmental degradation. This concept explicitly recognises that there are physical limits to growth. However, you rarely hear economists talk about this. — Peter Gray

Environmental Kuznets curve
11 September 2019 by Tejvan Pettinger

Definition: The environmental Kuznets curve suggests that economic development initially leads to a deterioration in the environment, but after a certain level of economic growth, a society begins to improve its relationship with the environment and levels of environmental degradation reduces.
From a very simplistic viewpoint, it can suggest that economic growth is good for the environment.

However, critics argue there is no guarantee that economic growth will lead to an improved environment – in fact, the opposite is often the case. At the least, it requires a very targeted policy and attitudes to make sure that economic growth is compatible with an improving environment.

(Diagram of Kuznets Curve -- no need for a diagram -- self-explanatory. But it can be found online)

Causes of Environmental Kuznets curve
1. Empirical evidence of declining pollution levels with economic growth. Studies found that higher economic growth in the US led to increased use of cars, but at the same time – due to regulation, levels of air pollution (in particular sulphur dioxide levels declined). See: Kuznets curve a Primer

2. Spare income with growth. With higher rates of economic growth, people have more discretionary income after paying for basic necessities; therefore, they are more amenable to paying higher prices in return for better environmental standards.

3. Focus on living standards as opposed to real GDP. Traditional economic theory concentrates on increasing real GDP and rates of economic growth. But there is a growing awareness the link between economic growth and living standards can be weak. Focusing on living standards can become politically popular.

4. Improved technology. The primary driving force behind long-term economic growth is improved technology and higher productivity. With higher productivity, we can see higher output, with less raw materials used. For example, since the 1950s, the technology of car use has significantly improved fuel efficiency. In the 1950s, many cars had very low miles per gallon. In recent years, car manufacturers have made strides in reducing fuel consumption and have started to develop hybrid technology.

5. Solar and renewable energy. A good example of how improved technology has reduced potential for environmental damage is the progress in solar technology. In recent years, the cost of solar energy has significantly fallen – raising the prospect of clean technology. See: Solar technology

6. De-industrialisation. Initially, economic development leads to shifting from farming to manufacturing. This leads to greater environmental degradation. However, increased productivity and rising real incomes see a third shift from industrial to the service sector. An economy like the UK has seen industrialisation shrink as a share of the economy. The service sector usually has a lower environmental impact than manufacturing.

7. Role of government regulation. Economic growth and development usually see a growth in the size of government as a share of GDP. The government are able to implement taxes and regulations in an attempt to solve environmental externalities which harm health and living standards.

8. Diminishing marginal utility of income. Rising income has a diminishing marginal utility. The benefit from your first £10,000 annual income is very high. But, if income rises from £90,000- £100,000 the gain is very limited in comparison. Having a very high salary is of little consolation if you live with environmental degradation (e.g. congestion, pollution and ill health). Therefore a rational person who is seeing rising incomes will begin to place greater stress on improving other aspects of living standards.

Criticisms of Kuznets Environmental Curve
1. Empirical evidence is mixed. There is no guarantee that economic growth will see a decline in pollutants.

2. Pollution is not simply a function of income, but many factors. For example, the effectiveness of government regulation, the development of the economy, population levels.

3. Global pollution. Many developed economies have seen a reduction in industry and growth in the service sector, but they are still importing goods from developing countries. In that sense, they are exporting environmental degradation. Pollution may reduce in the UK, US, but countries who export to these countries are seeing higher levels of environmental degradation. One example is with regard to deforestation. Higher-income countries tend to stop the process of deforestation, but at the same time, they still import meat and furniture from countries who are creating farmland out of forests.

4. Growth leads to greater resource use. Some economists argue that there is a degree of reduced environmental degradation post-industrialisation. But, if the economy continues to expand, then inevitably some resources will continue to be used in greater measure. There is no guarantee that long-term levels of environmental degradation will continue to fall.

5. Countries with the highest GDP have highest levels of CO2 emission. For example, US has CO2 emissions of 17.564 tonnes per capita. Ethiopia has by comparison 0.075 tonnes per capita. China’s CO2 emissions have increased from 1,500 million tonnes in 1981 to 8,000 million tonnes in 2009.

Conclusion
The link between levels of income and environmental degradation is quite weak. It is possible economic growth will be compatible with an improved environment, but it requires a very deliberate set of policies and willingness to produce energy and goods in most environmentally friendly way.

There are countless other cultural traditions, considered 'harmless' and beneficial such as Christmas which I am sure many here indulge. Can't stand that rubbish. I am not against partying but why have it over some stupid thing like that, — unimportant

So I was wondering, does philosophy and mathematics have anything to say about the possibility, or otherwise, of perpetual economic growth?" — Peter Gray

Can you imagine a moral premise that counters (shows an error in) mathematics? — Mark S

"Religion := The acceptance of something without the necessity of proof and claiming authority based on this premise." p180 How I Understand Things. The Logic of Existence

Since science does require some proof (and we could certainly argue some more on what, exactly constitute such a 'proof'), it would seem that the two concepts, science and religion, is incompatible. — Pieter R van Wyk

Unless the universe (of determinant forces and constraints on one) changes too, I don't think so. — 180 Proof

But I would disagree that VOI can “counter” morality as cooperation. The scientific truth of morality as cooperation is in a different domain of knowledge from morality based on assumed ethical premises. — Mark S

I make four main claims that may not have previously been explicitly stated. — Mark S

First, virtually all the contradictions and strangeness of past and present cultural moral norms can be explained by evolutionary game theory and moral psychology as parts of cooperation strategies. — Mark S

Second, cultural moral norms are those norms whose violation is commonly thought to warrant punishment of at least reputation damage. — Mark S

Third, these explanations imply three cultural-independent moral principles that define what is descriptively moral, universally moral, and immoral within the framework of morality as cooperation. — Mark S

Fourth, the ultimate source of our moral psychology and cultural moral norms lies in cooperation strategies that are as innate to our universe as the simple mathematics on which evolutionary game theory is based. — Mark S

In the absence of choice, making a wish for a song or a film becomes easy, when your choices are infinite, making up your decision becomes much harder.
I don't know if this phenomena has a name already, — Bivar

Not until 85% through do we get more than this summary.
— noAxioms

The problem is, how could a mere physical system experience this awareness. — Chalmers

But this just seems like another round of feedback. Is it awareness of the fact that one can monitor one’s own processes? That’s just monitoring of monitoring. — noAxioms

In many of the industrial countries of the world there is talk that there isn't going to be even younger working age people to do enough work to support those that are retired. I wonder what the thoughts are of the members of this forum on this subject. — dclements

If I may express it briefly: The Method of Humbly Presence is a conscious way to appreciate life without loss, accepting oneself not as the center of the world, but as its natural part. Through the rejection of egocentrism, gratitude, sobriety of perception, and the ability to rejoice in the simple are born. — Astorre

If what you say is so wrong that people are very offended, then the company can fire you. — Wolfy48

It often seems we only realize the true value of something after it's lost. But is there a way to consciously experience gratitude, recognition, and sober appreciation without having to go through loss? — Astorre

Is that to be found here or elsewhere? — Ansiktsburk

Most of us are in the wheel reinvention business. — Tom Storm

I don't think everyone is a philosopher like he says, most people don't really seem to question the way things are in life and just go along with it with what they were taught. From my understanding our brains are sorta resistant to what philosophy requires of us. — Darkneos

I wonder what the minimum standard would be for someone to be called a philosopher? — Tom Storm

Any data on the cannibalism rates back then or not so much? Hey, never let good meat go to waste am I right. — Outlander

Well part of me thinks he comes of as a crazy sage who's seen some truth because he uses words like semantics and syntax and cites Wittgenstein a lot, but when I look at other stuff of his it doesn't seem like that. like his stuff seems deep only if you don't know better — Darkneos

I'm also not really sold on how he thinks we make meaning:

It merely refers to the fact that I, you, and all of us, are continually maturing. We evolve, and in that adaptive development over time we apportion significance to our experience in a manner that manifests as mood, motivation and morality. — Darkneos

means of coping, maximizing productivity, reducing stress, or achieving “authenticity.” I have seen this particularly in some pieces on Stoicism I've read that seem to be largely aimed at the "tech-bro" crowd. A commitment to truth gets shoved aside for a view of philosophy as a sort of "life hack."

There is a sort of "managerial" outlook here, where praxis reduced to a sort of tool. In a similar vein, I have seen the critique that modern therapy/self-help largely focuses on helping us "get what we want," but not so much on "what we ought to do" or the question of if "what we want" is what will ultimately lead to flourishing and happiness. That is not seen as the purpose of therapy or self-help. That might be fair enough, but then it also not seen as the purpose of education either. So, what does fulfill that function? It seems to me that nothing does, except for perhaps wholly voluntary associations that one must "choose" (where such a choice is necessarily without much guidance). Aside from "self-development," this seems problematic for collective self-rule and social cohesion. — Count Timothy von Icarus

but I felt like the post was mistaking what humans do with that being purpose. Like us making meaning is what we do but that doesn't necessarily imply a purpose right? — Darkneos

So you are arguing or asking if the assassination of Charlie Kirk was justified?
Youre a mod?
Thats pretty fucked up. — DingoJones

And I believe that a society that strives for constant liberation from anything restrictive and oppressive is liberated to the point of freedom from being — Astorre

you emphasize the importance of a solid foundation. Is it possible to build a foundation that includes subjectivity as an integral part of truth? — Astorre

does philosophy make you happier? What role does it play in your daily life - does it criticize your beliefs, or does it inspire you by connecting you to your humanity. What kind of people does philosophy make us in a world where objectivity is increasingly dominant? — Astorre

In other words, I think that philosophy should face the challenge of appreciating subjectivity as something much more important than we usually think. Normally we think that subjectivity means limits, narrow horizons, being conditioned, being relative. — Angelo Cannata

As I said, I favour criticism, because it protects and vaccinates us from deception, contradictions, it reveals a lot of hidden bad mechanisms. But what shall we do once all mechanisms, bad and good ones, have been deconstructed, revealed and pulverized? — Angelo Cannata

If other people were aware of him they would probably revolt. Which is where a moral power play ensues. — Barkon

Someone can knowingly sell cigarettes or cancer causing products and be very successful and live a very happy life. Period. — Tom Storm

If we're willing to do it we can produce a societal system that's far more harmonious than the current system. — Barkon

Hopefully, we live in a very modern era, and scientists can overcome this virus quickly. — javi2541997

My granny is 91 years old, and it seemed that the covid didn't even approximate to her. — javi2541997

That is your pov. — BC