Its etymology CLEARLY indicates it was meant to denote “being without a god” (not being without a “belief” in a god)…and that was the use of the word throughout history. (Until debating atheists got hold of it.) — Frank Apisa

Some etymology sites give slightly different ways of looking at it. And disagree with you.

https://www.etymonline.com/search?q=Atheist
atheist (n.)

1570s, "godless person, one who denies the existence of a supreme, intelligent being to whom moral obligation is due," from French athéiste (16c.), from Greek atheos "without god, denying the gods; abandoned of the gods; godless, ungodly," from a- "without" (see a- (3)) + theos "a god" (from PIE root *dhes-, forming words for religious concepts).

“Atheist”, it should be noted, was introduced to the English language BEFORE theist…so it could not have been derived the way some atheists want to insist, by “a” (without) + “theist” (a “belief” in a god) = without a “belief” in a god.) — Frank Apisa

https://www.etymonline.com/search?q=theist
theist (n.)
1660s, from Greek theos "god" (from PIE root *dhes-, forming words for religious concepts) + -ist. The original senses was that later reserved to deist: "one who believes in a transcendent god but denies revelation." Later in 18c. theist was contrasted with deist, as believing in a personal God and allowing the possibility of revelation.

As they both have the same root there is no need for one to be derived from the other. They were just words created for different purposes.

Ooops. Did I just ruin something?

Looks like Tiff is in line to win this thread as well.

Go girl. :up:

Are you keeping it secret? — fishfry

Of course he is, but all will be revealed when he goes to pick up his Nobel prize.

My 3. and 4. are hardware, yours software. — Zelebg

3. Display A: visual output inner -> feeds into 4.
4. Camera B: visual input inner -> feeds into 5.

How do you figure that it HAS to be hardware? Why would software need internal a viewing screen for another camera to watch? Why not just go from 2 to 5 without the BS in the middle.

It would make more sense if the external camera feed "showed" (3) the recognition program the data so that it could "see" (4) it. which is exactly as what a facial recognition program does.

Have you been watching Giorgio again?

Most importantly, or for a start, it does not have the same hardware configuration. — Zelebg

Does not have the same hardware configuration as WHAT?

Your idea of an conscious computer or a human being that has no hardware?

The example I gave you fits exactly to your specs, so what is the problem with it? Can you explain that to me?

I suppose it might be questioned what exactly should "Program A" be doing and what part of that should go onto inner screen


But what I am suggesting here is both what and how to implement, and relevant part is hardware configuration, not software modules. — Zelebg

Make up your mind, is it the software or the hardware that you think is important? Because, as the song goes, you can't have one without the other.

Sounds hasty.. — Monist

Not really, if you don't know and I don't know there is probably no one that does know. Hence there is no answer or at least no answer that is accepted universally.

I do not know if I know anything. — Monist

So there is your answer, we do not know.

I already told you where/why I think you are wrong. "5. Program B: consciousness & free will -> feeds into 6.& 2" does not equal "a visual recognition program" — Sir Philo Sophia

In what way do you think it is different?

and it is Zelebg job to explain to you why not, — Sir Philo Sophia

But you are the one that said I was wrong, not him.

or your job to explain to us why you logically conclude they are equal or highly similar. — Sir Philo Sophia

I did, if you did not understand the comparison just say so.

I think Zelebg will explain it to us when he replies. stay tuned... — Sir Philo Sophia

So you don't have an answer, but I am wrong? :chin:

It is raining, that is the truth.

Do you agree with that?

The best way to reply to someone is to select the text you want to reply to, then click on the reply button that appears.
IF for some reason nothing happens, try right mouse button click on quote button.

do you not appreciate the difference between pattern recognition (e.g., an AI neural network detecting the presence of a orange) and the abilities human Consciousness? — Sir Philo Sophia

No, explain it to me please.

And then maybe you can explain why my telephone is not a conscious thing using Zelebg's method.

no. that is pattern recognition, which current AI robots routinely do. — Sir Philo Sophia

What is the difference?

Your eye's target is a thing that isn't yourself — Qwex

How can you see an imaginary character?

Your own simulate presence. — Qwex

Are simulation and imagination the same thing? I can imagine that I am eating pizza, is that the same as simulating eating pizza?

I suppose it can be argued any imagination you produce is yours only, and thus it is yourself you're talking to. — Qwex

Talking WITH.

However, I'm not ready to explain that. — Qwex

Why not?

To make sure that others know you have replied to them, you can use the "Quote" or reply functions.

You missed Zelebg's magical module which your cellphone is missing: — Sir Philo Sophia

No, I did not miss it. I explained it.

Consciousness in living beings allows us to recognize things by comparing them to things we know. Once we have recognized a person we can decide to say hello or not.

1. Camera A: visual input extern -> feeds into 2.
2. Program A: subconsciousness & memory -> feeds into 3.
3. Display A: visual output inner -> feeds into 4.
4. Camera B: visual input inner -> feeds into 5.
5. Program B: consciousness & free will -> feeds into 6.& 2.
6. Speaker: audio output extern — Zelebg

Actually this looks like a visual recognition program more than a conscious computer. Some of the new mobile phones and computers have facial recognition software that will welcome you with a cheery "Hello" when it recognizes your face. And the steps are nearly the same.

1. camera picks up your face
2. camera software sends image to facial recognition software
3. 4. facial recognition software sees and scans image then looks for id in data base
5. facial recognition software finds id and decides to send authorize to user
6. speaker says "Hello"

My cell phone listens to me all the time, I think that most of us know this. I always talk about cats to my phone and it always shows nice pictures of them on the lock screen. But do not try to tell me that the bloody thing is doing it consciously, because that is not true.

If you create an imaginary character and you start talking to them, does it mean you're talking to somebody or are you talking to yourself? — Craiya

It means that you are talking with yourself.

What happens when the all seeing eye turns inward? — Wallows

They see all of the inner shit. :chin:

One: Are there implications to the “celebrating” the more secular aspects of Christmas…while not giving even passing thought to the religious reason the “holiday” even exists? Is there an element of hypocrisy involved…or is the activity a normal, non-hypocritical result of living in a culture motivated by that aspect?

And two (A more frivolous consideration): Because of the windowed alcove in which we set the tree, there is an area of that tree which absolutely cannot be seen by anyone inside or outside the house. My wife insists that the area be decorated as fully as the areas that can be seen. Is she nuts…or am I for suggesting it is just a waste of time? — Frank Apisa

I can sympathize with this entirely. I am a non believer but my wife is, so I can sort of say that I celebrate for her. That way I can get my Christmas dinner.

Our tree sits in the corner of a bay window that goes around the corner of the house, and there is a part that sits behind the supporting post. My wife insists that the lights and decorations do not get interrupted and that that part looks just like the rest.
That is what we men love about women, the way they think. So entertaining. :wink:

"Are the police just or am I just? "

Cops are not supposed to be either. Their job is to try to prevent and investigate crime. Justice comes later.

What you described has nothing to do with the police organization as such. It is just a bunch of bullies taking advantage of the fact that they wear uniforms.

Who? BK? I don't know what is all in "real" meat... Not that it matters, cause decaying flesh seems all equally gross to me. — Artemis

http://dailybuzzlive.com/mcdonalds-uses-worm-meat-fillers-can-legally-call-100-beef/
:lol:

Eh, they're just mad that BK is selling a meat-less burger that really tastes good now and are looking for something to complain about. — Artemis

Does that mean that they have stopped using worms as the protein additive, or that worms do not count as meat? :chin:

Over population is probably the cause of some of or even most of the other problems, but their is one thing that is even worse in my opinion.

Vanity.

Zero is the total product of one's life.
You start with it and anything added is left behind at the end.

Impeachment of a president. ---- They say he did something wrong.

A trial without any crime being committed. ---- He says he has done nothing wrong.

And the polls show an immediate rise in popularity. ---- ?

Does that mean that the public approves of him doing something wrong if it will make America great again?

When my dad died, I was sad because of so many things we never got to do or talk about. There are so many things I would like to know about but never will now.

The voice of passion and the voice of reason. — ArguingWAristotleTiff

No other voice for me, they just sing different songs. :wink:

Nah, you're not alone, in fact you are never alone as long as you still have the voices in your head :joke: — ArguingWAristotleTiff

Voices in my head? :gasp: Dang, how many am I supposed to have?

Me thinks that I am alone in the universe.
That being so would make me the last word poster on this thread.
That makes me the winner.

Anyone wants to discuss this FACT.

One of the things that I found out that really helped me to understand why I keep coming here is that we are all fucking crazy. Just in different ways.

Some of the addicts are crazy enough to think that they know everything, others have convinced themselves that they know nothing and are here looking for the answers.
Some have faith that they desire to instill upon others, others just try to push things down your throat.
A few think that the have true knowledge to impart, and others think they are full of shit.

It comes down to the simple fact that, within reason, we are allowed to say what we think and have others try to "correct" our way of thinking. And most of us enjoy learning through this system.

Any intelligent person could get hooked on a place like this.

And I am celebrating the start of my vacation with a few brews, so don't pay too much attention to me or my spelling mistakes. :wink:

Me thinking does not prove you exist. :chin:

You should all be banned for making me waste my time reading this thread.

But I am a nice person, so I will not demand the banning.

Just give me their heads on a silver plate. :cool:

I exist. — Waya

Prove it! :smirk:

She opened a door today.

How does one go about explaining this violation of one's own will in dreams, — Wallows

Why would you want to explain it, it was only a dream.

But some consider dreams to be the realization of actions that a person would like to perform but could not happen in real life. Sort of a fulfilling of unconscious desires.

Shit! I deleted 2 and added 2.

Next time I will try harder not to break them.

Or was that the start of another sentence?

Most of what passes for philosophy is best described as BS. — A Seagull

Who said that? :chin:

The philosopher that evacuated his bowels on the set, he shall eat it?