I've got the impression that in this thread no proper distinction has been made or maintained among rights, abilities, and capabilities. — tim wood

Do children that are underage for something have any rights in that area? For example, what rights does a 12 year old have about alcohol?
What abilities would a 14 year old need for sex?
What capabilities does a 13 year old need to be allowed to drive a car?

Do you practice what you preach? — tim wood

Yes I do.

Or as a parent do you routinely usurp your children's "rights" when you think it best to do so? — tim wood

Which rights could be usurped if they are underage? Even if you think your 17 year old kid is mature enough to be in a sexual relationship, the law says it cannot be allowed.

I am going to bed now so toodle loo.

Hasta mañana.

I don't need more people telling me to be positive! — Lone Wolf

I was not telling you to be positive, I was commending you for being so.

Good job that, being positive instead of being negative.

Cuz if you don't then you'll never make it to Friday. :razz: — Lone Wolf

Good point. :up:

Just gotta keep going... lol. — Lone Wolf

Why?

We are halfway to the weekend....yippee! — ArguingWAristotleTiff

Yep, at the belly button. :smile:

Yes, we can deny a young adult's right to choose what to do with their own body until they, alone, are capable of handling the consequences of their actions both foreseen and unforeseen. — ArguingWAristotleTiff

Well Tiff, you can at least try to deny them the right. And then they will go behind your back and do it anyway. Which would be worse because they would lose the benefit of knowledge and support that adults are supposed to give children.

It should be the adults job to prepare their kids for adulthood in all senses. It is not right that adults deny them things until they are 18 or 21 and them say "Go ahead now, on your own."

I still think that deny anything until a specific age is reached does more harm than good. Simply because mother nature will eventual take over and the desires will rule the day. Whether it is about sex, booze, drugs or even gambling, the best prevention to bad things happening is education. Ignorant people are famous for doing more stupid things than educated ones.

Kids being made aware of the consequences of their actions beforehand are less likely to do things. Kids that are made aware of and understand the reasons for not doing something should then be able to make a reasonable decision for themselves.

Why are there so many teen mothers around? Because they believed the guy that wanted to screw them that they would not get pregnant the first time. Because they had been told by their classmates that you cannot get pregnant if you do it standing up. Because their stupid parents never told them about sex and its results. And lots of other dumbassed ideas I have heard from students over the years.
Do you think that all of those teen mothers would have let it happen if they had been properly educated?

Ass an adult, education is the key to deciding what you want to do in your life. Why should it be less for a young boy or girl?

Why do you omit the next clause? — tim wood

Because I find no reason to comment on it.

I believe that same-age sex, without force or coercion and with mutual "consent," should be free from legal scrutiny. — tim wood

A lot of sex happens between preteens and also early teens, so if they are the same age and there is no force or coercion and with mutual "consent" sex would be alright? It is funny to think that the teen years in when kids suffer from peer pressure more than at any other time. Most of the time it is not even an individual that coerces them into having sex but the groups the associate with.

A lot of people would disagree with that idea because they would say that they are not mature enough to understand the consequences of their actions.

A true age of consent should not be a blanket number of years covering everyone. It should take into consideration not just their needs, desires and the ability to understand what they are doing but what would actually be needed to make sure they live a fulfilling life.

Why not change gun laws? — David Solman

Changing laws does not necessarily mean that the people will change their way of life. The laws have to be enforced before they can start the process. Any ideas about how they could enforce a gun ban?

Why are you people so ignorant, — David Solman

This implies that the people do not know about the problem as you call it. That is not true. They are all well aware that the shit hits the fan sometimes. The main problem is that it affects so few of the population. And if as you say it is the people that use the guns that are the cause then it is such a minority of the people that no one feels guilty because some idiot used a gun wrongly.

Make it safer, more secure so that this doesn't keep happening. It's the obvious thing to do. — David Solman

.I keep asking exactly how this can be done and as far as I know no one has come up with a workable solution.

Are you really saying that the laws on guns are perfect the way it is currently? — David Solman

I doubt that anyone is saying that. Almost everyone thinks that something should be done to stop these disturbed people going this kind of thing.

Speak English Please — René Descartes

n'way i'mz a gonna tahk all preddy jus fer u man.

u's gotta ged yo sef a education.

:razz:

Most musics is philosophical in some way.

Some glories the good of a culture, some protests the bad. And some just makes the makers and fans more stupid.

Rape is defined as non-consensual sex. Having sex with someone lacking the ability to consent is rape. — Hanover

As I stated earlier, this is what a test would have to be designed to do. Find out if the person actually has the ability to consent to having sex.

So it's rape if I have sex with a 50 year old who has unliscensed sex? — Hanover

If she or he is not capable of making a rational informed decision the yes, you can rot in prison.

Ummm yuck. I can't get aboard your victim blaming. — Hanover

I am not blaming anyone. Just stating a fact. Many young people engage in sexual activities because they want to.

No where have I talked about rape, coercion, or any other type of unacceptable behavior. I just suggested a method of deciding upon the age of consent. Personally I believe that the basic idea that one sock fits all sizes is great, for socks. But it does not work for kids and their sex lives.

Basically I think that most of the things teenagers have to wait for till a certain age should be looked at more closely. The age that they can buy booze being one of the most ridiculous. It should be a minimum of at least twenty five.

if you cant see that the accessibility of guns is the problem here than you're just being stupid. — David Solman

Exactly where did I state that the availability of guns is not the problem? Maybe you should read the posts before replying to them.

id suggest you read the article before posting here. — David Solman

And just who the hell are you to tell me what to do, but please do take your own advise.

If you cannot see the need to capitalize your writing then you must be rather ignorant of things like basic grammar and punctuation as well as common courtesy and manners.

Work this through then. Bob's been arrested for statutory rape, so he puts the girl on the stand and proves she's mature, or not, and if the jury sides with him, he goes home, but if not, he goes to prison. Bob goes free after having sex with a street wise 14 year old but Joe goes to prison for having sex with a naïve 22 year old? — Hanover

First of all we are talking about a test to decide whether a person is old enough to engage in sexual activities with other people, not rape.

My idea would be applied before the act, not after. Much like acquiring a drivers license. A sort of preventive measure if you like. And it would be applied to both sexes, not just females. Most males under 18 would probably fail it though due to lack of maturity.

Rape shield statutes specifically protect rape victims from having their sexual past presented at trial. Are in favor of eliminating those so that juries can consider the background of the victim, despite the fact that no rape victim with an extensive sexual past would ever want to press charges? — Hanover

Again, not relevant to my idea of a test.

My point here is that laws have to be clear and let the public know what to expect and what is expected of them. Since the passage of the test you propose generally will follow age, it seems to make sense to base these laws on age instead of case by case bases, — Hanover

While there should be a minimum age somewhere in there it would not be a deciding factor in each case, as your own example of the wise and naive young ladies shows.

especially considering the scrutiny the victim will be forced to undergo at trial and the uncertainty the accused will have in knowing who they can have sex with. — Hanover

Again here you go towards rape and victims, not age of consent which I was discussing. And apart from underage sex being called statuary rape there is quiet often a bit of willingness and even wantonness involved on the part of the victim.

Instead of Judgement day we can have Groundhog Day. — René Descartes

De done got dat one ahready man.

What is the relevance of statements like this — andrewk

A lot of people posting here think that banning guns will solve the problem of people killing other people, I am just pointing out that it is not true. They are the ones that use the fallacy.

It is maybe true that the Florida nut might have killed fewer people, but he would have killed using any method he could. What would have happened if he had taken a nail bomb instead of a gun?

It looks like an undiluted use of the Nirvana Fallacy — andrewk

There is no such thing as Nirvana. At least not for the living.

why not hedgehogs? — CuddlyHedgehog

Because they are almost extinct now due to people tearing down hedges. And they are not as cuddly as groundhogs.

What might be a few questions? — tim wood

Not so much of a question type test, but more in line with psychological development and maturity. Obviously there would be a part of it that would question the person's knowledge about the risks and consequences of sex would have to be included, but it would be more important from my point of view to evaluate their ability to make rational decisions.
And I don't think that there should be a practical section to the test.

Driving is maybe more dangerous than sex, but all you need to do in most places is reach a certain age and pass a test. Then you can drive a very dangerous weapon of mass destruction.

It all depends on your abilities to handle certain situations.

How about we institute a sex license test? And forget the age limit.

what is the next species to dominate the planet going to be like do you think? — CuddlyHedgehog

Groundhogs.

Every responsible gun owner wishes that idiots could be kept away form guns.

As far as I have been able to research, the mass shootings have been carried out by people that the government should have prevented from accessing guns.

That being said, just how far can any government go in restricting access to guns?
I think that it is about as feasible as preventing people access to cars. And there are many cases of underage drivers killing people with "borrowed" or stolen cars.

Laws are only as useful as the governments ability to enforce them. How many more cops would they need to enforce a ban on guns in the USA?

That video is so 60's early 70's.

Ban the bomb and look after the world replicas.

So full of good intentions.

How many old hippies turned into car, gun and fertilizer salespeople? I know a couple that specialize in old car repairs and one that produces and sells plastic products.

Back then we had good intentions and these kids still do.

Don't get me wrong, I am against violence of all kinds, not just gun violence. I was there shouting make love not war as well. But it really does take more than that to make a difference, how many countries have actually banned atomic bombs?

I wish them all the luck in the world and seriously hope they manage to do something about the problem. But, how many of the people in the audience had guns and how many are prepared to give them up? How far would the young lady go to defend her point of view?

Whether or not the constitution actually says that the people can or should own guns is not something that I can really say, but i do believe that the people believe this to be true. They really believe in the right to do so and that whatever infringement upon that right is the beginning of of the decline of their rights. If one right is taken away then the others will eventually follow.

It is true that some countries have had success banning the right to bear arms and own guns, but none of them has the situation that the USA has as a starting point. And none of them has had a total success, only reductions in the crime rate.

Here's a great American: — Banno

Did you hear the part where she clearly says that they knew the kid and that he had mental health problems?
Did you hear where she clearly stated that he would have not have killed as many with a knife?
But he would have killed, because he was the problem.

I have never said that I agree with people killing others with guns, but people who are going to kill, will kill.

https://edition.cnn.com/2014/03/01/world/asia/china-railway-attack/index.html

Slow down when typing, fellas. Do you not see the caps lock screwing up your messages? — Thorongil

Yes I saw the problem, it was almost as prominent as a total lack of capitalization.

Sorry, I forgot to add this.

https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/crimeandjustice/bulletins/crimeinenglandandwales/yearendingseptember2017

fact is, every country in the world has a gun problem but none like america. no other country in the world has as many mass shootings and it is the country that promotes guns the most. if you cant see a problem you are blind. — David Solman

yES i DO SEE THAT THE PROBLEM, AND i UNDERSTAND THAT IT IS WORLD WIDE. wHAT i DON'T SEE IS WHY YOU THINK THAT aMERICANS PROMOTE GUNS. mOST OF THE PEOPLE SIMPLY PROMOTE THE RIGHT TO OWN THEM.

Not being British you would not be aware of this. — andrewk

Oh but I am British. Born in Manchester.

But did you notice the similarity of the circumstances between then and now in USA? Change of government maybe.

Would you believe something more recent maybe?

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2018/jan/25/knife-and-gun-rises-sharply-in-england-and-wales

It is strange that earlier in this thread so many people point to England's gun laws as an example to be followed to reduce gun violence.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1223193/Culture-violence-Gun-crime-goes-89-decade.html

The statistics seem to be showing that there is a problem with those laws application as well.

Is boredom an accurate reminder that life has no inherent meaning?

Boredom is the indicator that nature uses to advice your that you are not even trying to give meaning to your life.

So if you were able to choose, how would you go? — ArguingWAristotleTiff

Death by oversleeping. X-)

I need help — ArguingWAristotleTiff

We are here, talk to us.

Backyard ponies are fun! — Lone Wolf

No backyard ponies around where I used to live, and the terrain was not ideal for galloping to far either.

As a teenager I used to live in southern Louisiana, when we were not at school we used to be out riding or doing something in water. Summertime was all day riding because it was cheaper than using the boat. We had to work to earn money for gas.

How can I explain this in simple words?
Sore ass from riding horse.
I think that should do it.

Brings back fond memories of days in the saddle and sore ass.

Would it be wrong for her elementary school to reward her with a prize for getting the highest grades in her class despite the fact her "accomplishment" is due almost entirely (if not entirely) to luck? — czahar

I don't think it would be wrong, pointless maybe but not wrong. The fact that she is a genius and learns easily might be luck, but there is still some effort made in the learning process.

why can't we do the same for the woman's son? — czahar

It is his obligation to go to school, there is no option. And his mother probably knows how many days she had to drag him out of bed to get there.

It has been awhile since I rode a bucking Quarter horse! :D — Lone Wolf

Would it not be easier to ride a full one?

I have no idea, but I doubt that it would be a good idea to find out. :s