According to Anselm ontological argument we can possess an idea of God as THE perfect being, now a button is a much humbler thing than God so surely you should have no difficulty providing me with a brief descriptive account of the nature of THE perfect button as it is in itself? — John Gould

What is the purpose of this god you talk about? If it has no purpose then any or even no quality would make it perfect for the job.

Buttons having a purpose can be described in so many ways that are each perfect for the job they do, so there might be millions of perfect buttons.

If you insist on an answer to your question you will have to provide some sort of quality or purpose that can be compared to a button.

You are presuming that the essential nature of a button MUST be defined in utilitarian terms. What if my friend Mr X insists that the essence of a button is fundamentally a question of aesthetics (beauty). The onus is now on you to prove that Mr X is mistaken and that his thesis that the perfect button is the most beautiful button is false.

The ball is now in your court. Please present your objection/s. — John Gould

Does the most beautiful button do its job?
If it does not fulfill its purpose as a button then it cannot be qualified as a button(in either of the senses).

If it does fulfill its purpose as a button, then any other quality is secondary and therefore just a question of taste or adaption to use.

My cat is kneading it's claws in my chest and my dog is whining on the floor because she wants up in the bed. My efforts at negotiating aren't working. — Hanover

Take the bloody thing over to the Shoutbox, they are talking about fat cats licking their balls over there.

Could you give me a brief description of the perfect button? — John Gould

One that does its job properly.

Buggery and brimstone.

I think I messed that up didn't I.

It would make a very fitting end to this thread.

NO TO THE BUTTONS.(N) (Y) (N) (Y) (N)

It is soooo tempting to push them. (N) (Y) (N) (Y)

Without the longing for it, you are just being dishonest in your claim of needing food, because you are not even hungry. — Metaphysician Undercover

Me thinks you have it backwards.

I am not in the least hungry right now, after just finishing a can of sardines on toast and washing them down with a few beers. But I long for a big juicy steak.

If the freaking hurricane is going to come through here on Sunday I need to buy food right now, but of course I am not hungry. Nor am I longing for the food.

The need for somethings can be a requisite for life, name a longing that is necessary for your well being.

and you want a categorical separation between "need" and "longing". Why? — Metaphysician Undercover

I don't want anything of the sort. I am just trying to point out that need and longing are 2 different things. They might be related by some of their synonyms the context in which each is used is completely separate from each other.

Try this.
I need a glass of water.
I desire a glass of water.
I want a glass of water.
I long for a glass of water.

Do they all mean the same thing?

Hard to know if you're a worthwhile individual without some 'Likes'! It's the most accurate measure out there! — CasKev

Do you think that the people that liked you understood what you said, or they liked you because you said something that they were to dumb to think of.

Are things that are impossible — gunner

What do you count as impossible?

Why do you place "want" in the category other than "desire"? — Metaphysician Undercover

I don't, if you look at the list it is shown as a synonym for need.

You may continue to increase your list of longings, showing that none of them imply need, but this will never demonstrate that need is not a longing. — Metaphysician Undercover

It is something about the way a word is used that gives it its meaning.

When I say "I long for a piece of cheese" is there any need implied?

When I say "I need food" it does not in anyway mean that I long for a piece of cheese. It simply means that I have to eat to survive.

Longing, as you yourself said is a desire for something absent, it does not mean that I need what is absent.

Clearly I am not equating desire and need. — Metaphysician Undercover

But you are when you say that they are in the same category. Why does desire only appear as a synonym for longing and necessity not appear for longing.
Because they have different meanings!

If longing for something absent is the larger category, — Metaphysician Undercover

Which it is not because it is not even a synonym of need and therefore not in the same category.
Similar word to longing would be
hankering
yearning
desire

None of which actually imply need.
requirement
necessary
want
necessity
requisite
essential

So I asked you, in response to your post, how is need not a form of longing for something absent — Metaphysician Undercover

It is obvious I think that while some people think of a desire as being the same as a necessity they are incorrect.

Maybe we can get some validation that way. X-) — CasKev

Is that your reason for posting here? Most of us do it for fun. :D

Or wait - maybe silence is the highest form of praise you can get here... — CasKev

That's how the original thread in the old place got started.

My comment was serious. — Banno

So we got from Umpha umpha to fuck then fuck you and on to let's go fucky fucky.

Not a bad days work for early man.

How is need not a form of "longing for absent things"? — Metaphysician Undercover

I can long for the girlfriend I had when I was 18, but I don't need her.
I can long for a peanut butter sandwich, but I don't need one.

I need food.
I need water.

Seems to me there is a bit of a difference.

If there is one, then there is a way to make an other one. — Vajk

There's too bloody many already thank you.

Nuh. It would have been "fuck!" — Banno

Probably in its old form umpha umpha.

Crap, I just realized that I am on 2 threads called The First Words and The Last Word. I will have to do some serious thinking so as not to confuse my posts.

That's an obvious set-up for a joke about beer and spreading, but given all the recent sexism hoopla, I'll let that one slide right by... ;) — CasKev

I thought that I was the only one with a dirty mind. >:)

God(s) is/are omnioptent being(s).

Assume: there are no omnipotent.

1. x is non existent
2. y is non existent
3. If x is non existent then x cannot kill y
4. If x cannot kill y then y cannot be dead
5. If y is non existent then y cannot be killed
6. If y cannot be killed then y cannot be dead
7. y cannot be dead AND y cannot be dead (non contradiction)
So, our assumption that there are TWO omnipotent beings is false. This reasoning can be applied to any number of Gods.

I think this works just fine because 0 is a number and this reasoning can be applied to any number of gods.

Does this prove there are no gods?

The first words were born in this state of longing, fairly desperate, for absent, 'missing' things. — Mark Aman

I would have thought that need would have been a bigger motivator than longing for absent things. It might be that in some cases they overlap, but I doubt that man learned to speak so that he could call the old lady to come home.(Or vise versa so as not to seem sexist)

Imagine you go to work, a long day, angry boss, and lots of unappreciated work that was done by you. Then, you wake up and realize that the day just started and you now have to go to an even worse job, with a worse boss, with much worse pay. I believe you would be pretty "bummed", to say the least — Anonymys

This happens to many people everyday, and they HAVE to call it reality.

Should we have slander guidelines? — Agustino

If you can't take the heat, get the hell out of the kitchen.

But did he know what fruit is was? — Anonymys

It was a breadfruit, would you know one if you saw it?

Could he have known the difference between a circle and a square without somebody telling him? — Anonymys

Even with 2 good eyes you would not know the difference without someone telling you first. That is what they teach you in school.

Even blind people have a sense of dimension and spacial order. I saw a blind man draw a picture of a funny shaped fruit after touching it for a few minutes. The size and shape were fairly accurate in 2D and he could even draw it from several angles without having to touch it again. He had been born blind.

How would you live after the fact: knowing that your whole existence has been a futile attempt at nothing? — Anonymys

If you have enjoyed what you have experienced, then why should it have been a futile attempt at nothing?
Seems to me that if that is what life is then you should enjoy while you can.
Does it really make any difference if everything you think is real is just electrical impulses that come from outside your instead of electrical impulses that are created inside your body? You still perceive it as true.

Is that some sort of sick joke? — Bitter Crank

Don't knock it till you try it. But you have to get the sardines with chili hot sauce.

Maybe you could season the sardines with some of that yeast spread. What's it called? — Bitter Crank

Beer, it's called beer. :-}

Fruits and vegetables maybe? Some cheese? Bread? — Bitter Crank

Yeah we got some of them too, did you think I only drank beer? it was the day before shopping day.
Well at least we still had some the cheese.
Nothing better than supping beer with lumps of cheese to munch. The vegetables go in the stew that is also great to eat with a beer or two. The fruit gets juiced and are always good for mixing drinks. Oh yeah, bread. Toasted bread with sardines is fantastic with beer. :D

Heard that you got rid of your sheriff — ssu

Who shot the sheriff?

Hahaha! Please refer to the thread on getting authentically drunk... >:O — CasKev

I had a couple of quick looks at it, but I figured that I had too much to say about the topic.
I only have hangovers if I drink the local brews, so I just buy cheap imported stuff. Costs about 50 cent US instead of $1 for the local stuff.

And by the way, stop sending your rain over here. It was a nice 90F until you started complaining about the weather. X-)

Do you mean respecting the dead bodies or respecting the memories of the dead?

Who has something to brighten up the day? — CasKev

It's Friday!
Next week is carnival week here.
I have 6 6packs of cheap beer in the fridge. Not much else though.

I'll try to think of something else and get back to you in a bit.

Have you ever heard of Ferguson? — ArguingWAristotleTiff

The one that ran the football team?

The issue here, I believe, is that the above two facts are just your personal beliefs. — Rich

I doubt that he understands the difference.

I guess we can have a poll and see how well your facts are doing? — Rich

Count 1 vote against this theory.

It's not a real insult if it's asked for, so it's all good. — Michael

I guess I could say that about everybody I ever insulted, they all asked for it.

Now I feel better about my life. :D

Readin', mostly. Also talkin' 'bout, and chucking both figuratively and literally at times. — Wosret

Amen brother.

Who is Murphy? — ArguingWAristotleTiff

The Murphy that has laws named after him.
Murphy's Law, the governing rule of the universe.