:up: to Melania if the reports are accurate:

Melania Trump Letter to Putin Handed Over in Alaska (— Newsweek · Aug 16, 2025)

Trump

• cut tracking of kidnapped Ukrainian children
• blocked aid approved by Congress
• disbanded sanctions enforcement
• opposed oil price cap at G7
• paused intelligence sharing to Ukraine
• voted against a UN resolution condemning the aggression
• provided Putin a boost in Alaska, red carpet too
• re-confirmed his odd affinity for Putin

Something's off, but what? Personality quirk or something?


Artwork by Alesha Stupin

FYI, here's how some Russians took the Trump-Putin meeting:

Had a successful summit in Alaska...
If you read "between the lines":
1) Ukrainians and Europeans need to screw themselves now, if they have enough money and will, and the United States is no longer their helper
2) The bosses obviously coordinated the road map of events for the convergence of the two countries
3) among other things, the United States will reduce its armed presence in Europe
4) the key issues of the convergence will be large joint economic projects, perhaps the creation of a joint infrastructure fund of direct investment for this purpose, and on the Russian side the contribution will be made by frozen assets (interesting what Europeans can do about it )
5) Since Trump is not "out of control", Russia will help slowing down Israel's ambitions
Next meeting in Beijing in two weeks with a little — Michael Getman · Aug 16, 2025

Александр Рудько and how do you imagine the "destruction of the United States"? — Ola Ivanova · Aug 17, 2025

Оля Иванова Civil war, the overthrow of the elites and 50 independent states as a result — Alexander Rudko · Aug 17, 2025

Not much new I guess...

Trump could trigger a financial crisis in Russia — if he wants to — but has backed off from his threat of ‘very severe consequences’
^{— Jason Ma · Fortune · Aug 16, 2025}
Trump to back ceding of Ukrainian territory to Russia as part of peace deal
^{— Edward Helmore, Pjotr Sauer · Guardian · Aug 16, 2025}

, "Leave no one behind" has taken a new meaning under Trump: fire specialists, hire loyalists.

Musk later turned less loyal, it seems. :grin:

, for a while, I was waiting for DOGE to raise cases of fraud and crimes, like they advertised, with much cheering from the Trumpists, but I gave up waiting. Do you know what (if anything) has materialized?

:D



(please delete if inappropriate)

I continue to be impressed by the amount of gymnastics to try making sense of such religious text/creed.

Way back in school, we were doing formal proofs, so we were given exercises and their answers, and had to fill in the proofs, "Solve this-and-that", except one of the answers was intentionally wrong. One student then kept retrying until they got the given, but wrong answer. I don't recall how many sheets of paper they used, just that they also arrived at the right answer. :)

Wouldn't be the first time anyway ...

Putin’s warlord ally flying migrants into Europe (via yahoo)
^{— Joe Barnes · The Telegraph · Aug 9, 2025}

Not the only kind of hostility (has come up before in the thread). Nice peaceful people, eh?

, I'm not sure it's so ... "non-mysterious". ;)

It's not like scientific efforts to reconcile quantumatics and relativity, which are inherently open to something entirely different. Reality is to tell its own story, if you will.

The Jews don't put much divine stock in Jesus; he wasn't the Messiah according to them. Christians call Him God. Muslims say He was another prophet, superseded by Muhammad, and that Christianity has been polluted. I guess the Mormons roughly want to align with the Christians, but the Catholics (in particular) disown them. These are parts of the Abrahamic storylines and things that adherents believe and proclaim.

Malevolent vs. benevolent dispositions and conservative political ideology in the Trump era
^{— Craig S Neumann, Darlene A Ngo · Journal of Research in Personality · Jul 21, 2025}

:D

^{This Study Finds a Chilling Link Between Personality Type and Trump Support (— Tudor Tarita, Mihai Andrei · ZME Science · Jul 30, 2025)}

I guess no one wanted to take up Hanover's comment?

Yes, that's something of the idea. — Leontiskos

The perennialists sometimes bring up the parable of the blind men and an elephant.
Might be better suited for pluralism.
A conjunction of religious faiths does not leave much behind anyway.

Did Trump accomplish something...?

U.S. secures strategic transit corridor in Armenia-Azerbaijan peace deal (— Steve Holland, Ross Colvin, Lincoln Feast · Reuters · 2025 Aug 7)

Naturally, it's to be called "The Trump Route". :D

Maybe Gamaleya will get foreign investors:

Cancer cure? Russia commences human trials of revolutionary personalized cancer vaccine (— The Economic Times · Aug 2, 2025)

RFK Jr. announces end to some mRNA contracts, including for flu, covid (— The Washington Post · Aug 6, 2025)

Did Moscow get hit by a heatwave or something?

The children of Severomorsk are told that neighbouring Nordic countries support Nazism
^{— The Barents Observer · 2025 Apr 15}

Moscow threatens to DESTROY Europe: nuclear blackmail, calls for war, and strikes on NATO
^{— UATV English · 2025 Aug 6 · 9m:18s}


We want Ukraine, as a state, to cease to exist [...]
^{— Bezpalko Bogdan Anatolievich via Visioner · 2025 Aug 7 · 1m:57s}

Seems clear that all this...stuff is for a domestic audience.

The Cathars believed that Jesus was pure spirit, not a physical human. But, they were run over, so their faith was largely stomped out.

, I just meant that where a mystery is accompanied by contradiction, you can derive anything; that's the principle of explosion.

, watch out for explosions.

sets are ultimately impossible — Fire Ologist

They're not.
(I'm assuming you're referring to naïve set theories.)
There are axiomatics that are free from the paradox you suggest.
I'm not sure I'd call it a mystery as such. :)

Apparently still going strong. Can be done in the right circumstances.

The world’s first solar-powered train in Australia (— Bridgestone Corporation · Jun 2019)
Discover World-First Solar Train in Byron Bay (— Elements of Byron · Apr 2023)
Byron Bay solar powered train (— Clean Energy Regulator, Australian Government · Sep 2024)

, this story? :D

Trump orders termination of labor statistics official after jobs report and downward revisions (— Fox · 2025 Aug 1)
Trump removes official overseeing jobs data after dismal employment report (— AP · 2025 Aug 1)
WATCH: ‘I think their numbers were wrong,’ Trump says after firing BLS head over jobs report (— PBS · 2025 Aug 2)
Trump defends firing labor statistics chief after weak jobs report (— The Hill · 2025 Aug 3)

I guess the numbers for the next few years will be Trumpified, unreliable/untrustworthy.

, agaigain: an effect they can have is you (mis)understanding them.
(and, beforehand, light, sound, or something, whichever doesn't matter much, also has an effect on you)

@NOS4A2, how do (or might) you learn new stuff and correct mistakes? "Move! Car!" never has any effect on you? — What did you make of it, if anything?

If you "take a cue from the environment", then it's already had an effect on you.

The claim still isn't that words/sentences are the cause, but rather that they can have an effect.
(responding to something else suggests misunderstanding)
Generalizing and objecting to that instead misses the point.

As an aside, would the big bang count as a cause in your book?

(still not seeing much to "set this out and how it's contrary to the above")

This is fun. — AmadeusD

:grin:

@NOS4A2, how do (or might) you learn new stuff and correct mistakes? "Move! Car!" never has any effect on you? (still not seeing much to "set this out and how it's contrary to the above")

in regards to Gaza and Ukraine — Mikie

Here's a poster. I'd include Hamas.

, I don't think it's a concluded story. I guess we'll see.

New EU Russia curbs may bolster Indian oil refiners' reliance on traders
^{— Nidhi Verma, Mohi Narayan, Trixie Sher Li Yap, Florence Tan, Tony Munroe, Jan Harvey · Reuters · Jul 21, 2025}

Exclusive: Indian state refiners pause Russian oil purchases, sources say
^{— Nidhi Verma, Philippa Fletcher · Reuters · Jul 31, 2025}

Besides, Europe pretending "business as usual" sends the wrong message.

, I'm not seeing much to "set this out and how it's contrary to the above".

Anyway, you read (hear, feel) the sentences by light (sound, touch), which is one effect. You may then understand or misunderstand them, which is another effect. From there on, you may or may not act accordingly; it's not that you're necessarily compelled to subsequently act in a particular way (though some may be compelled to panic in some cases). "Move! Car!" Either way, they've already had an effect on you; otherwise, it's doubtful we'd be language users. Nothing new or controversial here; over and out unless something comes up.

, it seems like something is going on, but it's not clear what ...

Pam Bondi ends FBI effort to combat foreign influence in U.S. politics (— NBC · Feb 6, 2025)

Trump administration retreats in fight against Russian cyber threats (— Guardian · Mar 1, 2025)

Carlos Giménez (Homeland Security committee member) said on Mar 3, 2025, that he didn't know why Hegseth ended these cyber efforts.

Weird. Trump's people have lost sufficient credibility that they'd need clear evidence by now. I wouldn't underestimate incompetence in the Trump regime, though. I wouldn't let it distract from the Epstein case, either. Meanwhile, the Scots kind of "welcomed" Trump. :)

Well, she's not holding back, and also comments on ABC, Zuckerberg, WSJ:

Elizabeth Warren on Colbert ‘Late Show’ Cancellation: Is the Paramount Trump Payoff a Bribe?
^{— Elizabeth Warren · Variety · Jul 23, 2025}

:D

Scottish newspaper headline about Trump visit referred to him as 'convicted US felon'? (...)
^{— Cindy Shan · Snopes · Jul 25, 2025}

Some oil trade have changed over the past three years:

How the Largest Importers of Russian Fossil Fuels Have Changed (2022 vs. 2025)
^{— Bruno Venditti, Sam Parker · Visual Capitalist · Apr 1, 2025}

Some select quotes to spice things up... :)

The election campaign is over. To achieve success in the election, Donald Trump relied on certain forces to which he has corresponding obligations. As a responsible person, he will be obliged to fulfill them. — Patrushev · TASS · Nov 11, 2024

They respect me. Let me tell you, Putin went through a hell of a lot with me. He went through a phony witch hunt where they used him and Russia, Russia, Russia. — Trump · UCSB · Feb 28, 2025

The new (U.S.) administration is rapidly changing all foreign policy configurations. This largely coincides with our vision. — Peskov · zarubinreporter via max seddon · Mar 2, 2025 · 1m:52s

Putin 'speaks to me, nobody else' after G8 expulsion, Trump says — NBC · Jun 16, 2025 · 30s

Burney plain-opines:

Derek Burney: Disillusioned Trump tries to talk tough on Ukraine
^{— Derek H Burney · National Post · Jul 23, 2025}

Muscovites opine:

Mixed reactions in Russia after Trump comments on military aid for Ukraine
^{— AP Archive · Jul 19, 2025 · 47s}



I'll just echo Kallas: too much babble and delaying while Ukraine is bombed daily. I guess they're used to getting sh¦t all over by now.

We write/read speak/hear words/sentences.
All part of our social practices, like this comment to you (the reader).
Such socializing can go via light (to eyes), touch, soundwaves (to ears), doesn't matter much which, and the reader/listener may (mis)understand, presumably with an awareness of some writer/speaker, at which point the words/sentences have already had an effect.
Without the writer/speaker and their words/sentences, it wouldn't have happened.

It’s the other way about. We affect words. — NOS4A2

You'll have to set this out and how it's contrary to the above.

Anyway, there isn't anything new in the above; maybe there's nothing more to come after.

There are some with concern for their fellow beings, raising pointed issues, being associated with or being called woke, or maybe self-labelling so.
Would women's suffrage activists have been called woke back in the day? Who knows. Anti-segregationists?

There are conservative reactionaries raising radical examples and denouncing them as woke.
After having yelled from the rooftops for some time, they've stigmatized the word for their purposes.

Wake up sheeple! — woke person?

The outrage. :fire: :D

Apparently, anti-vaxxers have been making noise about these:

Cohort study of cardiovascular safety of different COVID-19 vaccination doses among 46 million adults in England (article)
^{— Samantha Ip, Teri-Louise North, Fatemeh Torabi et al · Nature Communications · 2024 Jul 31}

Lower risk of dementia with AS01-adjuvanted vaccination against shingles and respiratory syncytial virus infections (article)
^{— Maxime Taquet, John A Todd, Paul J Harrison · npj Vaccines, Nature briefs · 2025 Jun 25}

But the higher point is the methodological one made above, that theology consists in justifying a given series of doctrines, not in their critique.

It starts with the conclusion and works through to the explanation, unable to reach an alternate conclusion. — Banno

Theology starts with a conclusion, and seeks to explain how it fits in with how things are. It seeks to make a given doctrine consistent. — Banno

Right, akin to invention rather than discovery, assumption rather than learning.

[...]

Then you should be able to [...] — NOS4A2

Then it should be easy to demonstrate. Use your words to change my mind. — NOS4A2

How so? You might be incorrigible, for example.

Either way, once you've (mis)understood words/sentences that you read or heard, then they've already had an effect.

God didn't tell you to murder. He asked you to commit a justifiable killing. — Hanover

Is it just because God says so, or does God say so because it is just? :)

How does a story that makes no sense survive that long? — frank

Because we're neurotic apes and just part-time rational? Evidently, the elasticity/plasticity of our mental/cognitive lives establishes in such a way that we may be taught, believe, or defend (tooth and nail) false dogmas and fictional stories. Incoherence and incorrigibility make irrational bedfellows in our heads.

Or is Christianity a special case? — frank

Heck no. :)

Seems clear enough that Trump is eroding credibility/trust that will impact Americans in the future.

In Latest Attack on Media, Trump Sues Wall Street Journal Over Epstein Report (— Jessica Corbett · Common Dreams · Jul 18, 2025)

The baby-rants are part of the circus.

Who stands to benefit?

I'm guessing the US is a couple of Trump'ers shorter. Russia is a cannon-fodder richer.

American Joins Russian Army For Citizenship, Gets A Big Surprise Instead
^{— Ed Scarce · Crooks and Liars · Jul 15, 2025}

Specifically, DeAnna referenced LGBT material being taught to their children in schools as motivation for moving out of the US.

American Father and Vlogger Tricked Into Front Line Combat by Russia
^{— Nick Pehlman · Kyiv Post · Jul 15, 2025}

Unfortunately, he feels like he is being thrown to the wolves right now, and he is kind of having to lean on faith. — DeAnna Huffman

Importing North Korean soldiers, sending non-soldiers to war, ..., maybe they are running low.

Trying the logic again...

How about you persuade me that the universe revolves around the earth? — NOS4A2

Suppose that @Michael persuaded you thereof, then what would that show?
That words can persuade, sometimes they do, not that they always do.

Suppose that @Michael didn't persuade you thereof, then what would that show?
That words sometimes don't persuade, they don't always, not that they never do.

Are you looking for any of those implications perchance...?
It seems like you instead demand proof that there are words that will persuade you of whatever.

By the way, what'd you make of my comment yesterday (if anything)?

A farce:

BREAKING NEWS: Trump Asked Point Blank If Bondi Told Him His Name Appears In Epstein Files
^{— Forbes Breaking News · Jul 15, 2025 · 1m:29s}

Exclusive: NIH suspends dozens of pathogen studies over ‘gain-of-function’ concerns
^{— Jon Cohen, Jocelyn Kaiser · ScienceInsider, Science/AAAS · Jul 11, 2025}

If we won't learn, we deserve what's comin', right? :)

Back to the Future: Lessons Learned From the 1918 Influenza Pandemic
^{— Kirsty R Short, Katherine Kedzierska, Carolien E van de Sandt · Frontiers in Cellular and Infection Microbiology · Sep 10, 2018}

Vague, unsupported, low quality arm waving. — T Clark

Odd. That ↑ comment looked like a (low-quality) hand-wave to me. :wink: