Thanks for the low down, but I was citing Judicial Watch vs. NARA, which observes other cases besides Armstrong.

It’s not irrelevant if those are his personal records. He can dispose of them as he pleases, according to the constitution and precedent.

But he decides what are presidential or personal records. So it is the case.

“The executive power shall be vested in a President of the United States of America.”

Trump could roll a blunt with those documents for all I care. Neither the DOJ nor NARA have the power to designate documents presidential or personal records. That discretion lies solely with the executive.

The suggestion underlying all the finger-wagging is that the unelected bureaucrats at the DOJ, NARA, and overzealous prosecutors like Jack Smith, and not the duly elected president, have discretionary power over the president’s documents and what is or isn’t classified. Of course that’s just not true.

The precedent has been already set.

The Court notes at the outset that there is broad language in Armstrong I stating that the PRA accords the President “virtually complete control” over his records during his time in office. 924 F.2d at 290. In particular, the court stated that the President enjoys unconstrained authority to make decisions regarding the disposal of documents: “[a]lthough the President must notify the Archivist before disposing of records . . . neither the Archivist nor Congress has the authority to veto the President’s disposal decision.” Id., citing H.R. Rep. No. 95-1487, at 13 (1978), reprinted in 1978 U.S.C.C.A.N. at 5744. Since the President is completely entrusted with the management and even the disposal of Presidential records during his time in office, it would be difficult for this Court to conclude that Congress intended that he would have less authority to do what he pleases with what he considers to be his personal records.

https://justthenews.com/sites/default/files/2022-08/memorandum%20opinion.pdf

I’m curious how a lawyer would get around this.

I don’t think he broke the law nor do I care if he did. But I’m certain they will do everything in their power to get him.

The thing about the hypocrisy is that it goes both ways. Trump was president. Clinton wasn’t. Trump had unilateral declassification power. Hillary didn’t. The only reason to bring up Hillary is to point at the preferential treatment she got. She stored classified info in her basement. She and her staff destroyed evidence. No indictment. People fell over themselves to defend her, call Trump a fascist, and look at those people now.

I don’t think Trump has the manipulative abilities you pretend he does. It is a witch hunt. They are literally inventing laws in New York, for example, to make his life hell. People campaign on getting him. There is no other way to describe it when your political opponents do that to you.

Rather, I believe his detractors are being manipulated, for instance by the years-long Russia hoax, which people fell for world-wide and still repeat it. I won’t name names but people here thought I was Russian. There has yet to be a single moment of clarity even after that whole charade. We’re in the midst of mass hysteria.

I asked what you thought his most egregious crime was, then you listed off all of them. You couldn’t answer the question. You just parroted the indictment.

Appealing to law is a fallacy for a reason, and following the law is no sign of morality. Nazis followed the law as they rounded up Jews. Dr. MLK was a criminal. You’re going to need a better argument.

All those laws are designed to protect state power and prestige, not to protect citizens and their human rights. There is nothing morally wrong with what Trump did.

What do you think is Trump’s egregious crime? One that could net him 100 years in prison?

Ridicule me all you want. Call me any name. Pretend I’m a bot. Use emojis if it helps. I believe you guys need it for catharsis and I genuinely care about your mental health.

As for the indictment, I don’t care. The FBI, the DOJ, are some of the most corrupt institutions ever created. Trump is just another victim of its malfeasance.

4 years of trying to nullify Trump’s presidency with lies and conspiracy theories that reached the highest echelons of the intelligence community and the world press, but Trump does a little rally at the National Mall and it’s a threat to “our democracy”. :rofl: So good.

The president can take documents to Mar-a-lago, as he did throughout his entire presidency. He did it openly, as is his right as president. Obstructing injustice is above board, especially with a glorified paperwork dispute.

Sorry, which part wasn’t true?

Clinton destroyed evidence with hammers. Biden kept classified docs in his garage. Neither of them had the unilateral declassification powers that a president had. No indictments for them; nothing.

Meanwhile Assange is rotting in prison. Snowden is in hiding. Trump is getting the full force of the US government on his back.

Old news parrot... nothing found criminal... waste of taxpayer dollars... example of using the government to punish one's political rivals.

Old news that you believed and helped spread, despite its falsity. The irony.

Give this report a read, friend. But I know you won’t.

https://www.justice.gov/storage/durhamreport.pdf

That doesn’t seem to have been proven true from what I can find. If it is true he shouldn’t be held accountable.

What do you know that few others seem to know?

I don’t know if it’s true. What I do know is that the media, the intel community, ran with any allegation against Trump for years, won Pulitzer Prizes for their reporting, or were lauded for their persecutory delusions, and all was found to be false and unjust. If they did the same for everyone it would all be fine, but of course it appears they’re working hard to discredit it before seeing the documents in question.

Biden’s son loses a gun near a school, buys crack, scores prostitutes, and now an informant brings evidence of bribery against dad, but no, Trump said something I didn’t like. :rofl: Just beautiful.

The laptop was not the subject of the first investigation.

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/09/23/us/politics/biden-inquiry-republicans-johnson.html

…and the second investigation is not over. The second investigation unearthed some shady things.

https://archive.ph/4RQtP

Whistleblowers have asserted that the FBI, the IRS, are slow-walking the investigations.

https://www.cbsnews.com/amp/news/hunter-biden-investigation-whistleblower-disclosures-allege-fbi-procedures-not-followed-chuck-grassley-james-comer/

Just the other day the house oversight committee claim they have evidence that Joe Biden accepted bribes.

https://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2023/jun/9/biden-accused-pocketing-5-million-bribe-while-vice/

It’s weird you don’t mention any of this.

I’m as materialist as they come but I don’t believe in determinism.

I’ll pass. I’m just giving you some info. It looks like you’re misinformed.

New? It’s been going on since 2018, despite what you say.

Hunter’s taxes and foreign business dealings have been under investigation by a federal grand jury in Delaware since at least 2018. His membership on the board of a Ukrainian energy company and his efforts to strike deals in China have raised questions by Republicans about whether he traded on his father’s public service.

https://amp.theguardian.com/us-news/2023/may/08/white-house-prepares-for-possible-charges-against-hunter-biden

It is a pity they were duped by misinfo, all of which was coordinated by the Biden campaign.

https://judiciary.house.gov/media/in-the-news/biden-campaign-blinken-orchestrated-intel-letter-discredit-hunter-biden-laptop

Hunter is still under investigation, despite what creativesoul says.

https://www.pbs.org/newshour/amp/politics/hunter-biden-investigation-being-mishandled-irs-whistleblower-says

Here’s mark Zuckerberg regretting it, blaming the FBI, despite creativesoul’s claims.

https://nypost.com/2022/08/26/zuckerberg-blames-fbi-for-censoring-the-posts-hunter-biden-scoop/amp/

This is the specific article that was suppressed before the election.

https://nypost.com/2020/10/14/email-reveals-how-hunter-biden-introduced-ukrainian-biz-man-to-dad/amp/

They had congressional hearing about it. Here’s Twitter’s Jack Dorsey regretting that he censored it.

https://nypost.com/2021/03/25/dorsey-says-blocking-posts-hunter-biden-story-was-total-mistake/amp/

I thought I was a Russian bot. I see we’ve expanded the goalposts a bit.

I think you’re right. The fallacy of appealing to law, and positive law in general, makes it clear to me that some believe law is determinative of behavior, despite the very notion being nonsensical.

It is nefarious. Recall that true information was suppressed in the lead up to the election.

I did, yes.

Not only that but many of Trump’s legal losses are not the result of him committing crimes, but the result of anti-Trump lawmakers creating and altering laws to get him.

For instance, New York Senator Brad Hoylman-Sigal is the one who signed into law the Adult Survivors Act, which gave that woman a one-year window to sue Trump over allegations long past their statute of limitations. He also did many others, aimed specifically at one man. So some victims of gaslighting can pretend Trump is losing, and not that the system is being rigged in a fashion that can only be described as persecution.

https://www.cityandstateny.com/politics/2023/04/ny-bills-specifically-targeted-donald-trump/384793/

That’s the one.

There was a conspiracy unfolding behind the scenes, one that both curtailed the protests and coordinated the resistance from CEOs. Both surprises were the result of an informal alliance between left-wing activists and business titans. The pact was formalized in a terse, little-noticed joint statement of the U.S. Chamber of Commerce and AFL-CIO published on Election Day. Both sides would come to see it as a sort of implicit bargain–inspired by the summer’s massive, sometimes destructive racial-justice protests–in which the forces of labor came together with the forces of capital to keep the peace and oppose Trump’s assault on democracy.

https://time.com/5936036/secret-2020-election-campaign/

They were threatened by rioting activist groups, who for all of 2020 burned a lot of their property to the ground, for some reason.

Good. It’s no surprise, then, that his opponents are abusing power to keep him out of it.

If a cabal of corporate and activist interests didn’t work behind the scene to alter election laws, subverting democracy under the nose of American citizens, there might not have been such a reaction.

I thought he would be president awhile and that would be the end of it. But his opponents took a piece of Clinton campaign disinformation and conspiracy theory and other lies to the top of the federal government, spreading it worldwide, destroying any chance at diplomacy between two now warring countries.

Trump’s a folk devil. The scapegoating has become so bad that his opponents’ behavior has led to the state of the world we now see today.

No it isn’t.

Cheering for stupidity and corruption in government? Does your undying cheerleading for Trump count?

Nope. He’s the one being persecuted.

I’m sure you can read Trump’s mind, knowing his wants and desires.

Tyranny is cruel and oppressive government.