• Hell, and the Perfect Selector
    What benefit to this life does anyone get from believing there is any "hell" (or afterlife) at all? Even if there is, Toothy, that doesn't change or impact here and now any more than the fact of Andromeda galaxy affects Earth today (or a billion years from now, long after all sentient species on Earth are extinct).
  • Exploring non-dualism through a series of questions and answers
    Radical non-dualisms like that of Deleuze, Derrida and Heidegger put consciousness into question alongside subjectivity and objectivity, rather than elevating consciousness to supreme status.Joshs
    :up: :up:
  • Exploring non-dualism through a series of questions and answers
    It's a fact.Wayfarer
    :roll:

    David Deutsch et al long ago convinced me that the Everettian interpretation (MWI) is both less inexplicable and more consistent with the experimental data than the so-called "Copenhagen interpretation". Besides, "it's a fact", sir, that Hilary Lawson is a quasi-p0m0, non-realist philosopher ("wanker") without any significant background in fundamental physics. :smirk:
  • Exploring non-dualism through a series of questions and answers
    You're confusing epistemology with ontology again (à la immaterialism, antirealism, subjectivism, etc), sir.
  • Exploring non-dualism through a series of questions and answers
    In other words, ultimate reality is not an alternative to conventional reality; it is the insight into the emptiness (śūnyatā) of inherent existence in all phenomena.Wayfarer
    Yes, (i.e.) the unbounded void of uncountable, endlessly swirling atoms ... natura naturans.

    My somewhat crude question is, why should we care?Tom Storm
    Well, the alternative is 'to live carelessly', no?

    Is this frame[work] really just for people who enjoy 'wanking about oneness'
    :sparkle: :eyes: :sweat: :lol: :rofl:

    ... or does it have a tangible use in daily living?
    Perhaps these reflections are used by some as a prophylactic against superstition, magical thinking, ego-fantasy, zerosum games, etc.

    What is non-dualism?Sirius
    Ontological immanence¹.

    What is the nature of an illusion?
    Misunderstanding, or ignorance-denial, of the fundamental inseparability of everything from nature is "the nature of illusions" (i.e. superstitions) such as "non-contingent facts", "transcendent values", "supernatural entities", etc.

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plane_of_immanence [1]
  • What is a strong argument against the concievability of philosophical zombies?
    Does A equate with Metzinger's 'self-model theory of subjectivity'?Tom Storm
    I think (A) refers more broadly to eliminativism (e.g. D. Dennett, P. Churchland, et al) than specifically to Metzinger's 'representational-functionalism'.
  • What is a strong argument against the concievability of philosophical zombies?
    Which seems more reasonable, or likely, to you, @Wayfarer (or anyone): (A) every human is a zombie with a(n involuntary) 'theory of mind'? or (B) every entity is a 'conscious' monad necessarily inaccessible / inexplicable to one another's 'subjectivity'? or (C) mind is a 'mystery' too intractable for science, even in principle, to explain? or (D) mind is a near-intractably complex phenomenon that science (or AGI) has yet to explain?
    — 180 Proof

    B is closest to the truth I reckon, but we can know other minds by inference ...
    bert1
    Well, I prefer (A) speculatively but (D) empirically; however, I find both (B) & (C) are incoherent (e.g. compositional fallacy & appeal to ignorance, respectively).
  • US Election 2024 (All general discussion)
    Every accusation he makes is a confession. :smirk:

    Politics... it isn't about logic and intelligence, it's a religion.ssu
    Behold the *Jihad of Estrogen* :strong:
  • US Election 2024 (All general discussion)
    :cool:

    11April24 ("4-11")

    Today in Trumpenfreude:

    Given that over 60% of the electorate (re: 2020 & 2022 elections) are women AND that Criminal Defendant-1 & his MAGA-GOP circus clowns are campaigning on a promise to implement a nationwide "Federal Abortion Ban" (including e.g. The 1873 Comstock Act by presidential executive order) in stark contrast to pro-choice President Biden and the Dems' campaign promise to pass a nationwide "Federal Right to Choose Law", we anti-fascists have to thank ...

    SCOTUS
    (Catholic right wing, MAGA majority) for overturning Roe v Wade in 2022 and thereby

    (1) depriving over half of the US population and electorate Constitutional protections of access to safe, reproductive healthcare that also permits (so far 17) states to ban abortion (even without medical exceptions) and to criminally prosecute both women seeking to terminate pregnancies and their doctors et al

    (2) causing GOP to underperform in 2022 midterms losing instead of gaining the US Senate and gaining only 9 out of projected 20-30 House seats to make their "red tsunami" into a "red ripple" ... and

    (3) causing MAGA-GOP in 2022 to lose anti-abortion ballot measures in Kansas, Kentucky, & Montana, failed to even get on the ballot in Oklahoma and then, in 2023, failed to stop a pro-choice state constitutional amendment from passing in Ohio – all ruby red states with majorities of trumpers, evangelicals, "poorly educated" rural blue collar white men and women.

    thank Arizona (swing state) for total abortion ban

    thank Florida (barely red state) for total abortion ban after 6 weeks

    thank North Carolina (swing state) for pro-"abortion ban" and pro-"repeal women's right to vote" MAGA-extremist candidate for governor

    thank Georgia (swing state) for total abortion ban after 6 weeks

    thank Nevada (barely blue state) for pending pro-choice ballot measure to amend state constitution

    thank Pennsylvania (swing state) for pending anti-abortion ballot measure to amend state constitution

    for mobilizing
    Almost All Liberal,
    Most Moderate &
    also Many Conservative
    Woman Voters which, IMO, increases the likelihood of a *blowout* worse than 2020 and reelection of Biden-Harris along with the Dems holding the US Senate, regaining the US House and, at least, 1 governorship (re: North Carolina). :clap: :mask: :party:

    addendum to ...
    https://thephilosophyforum.com/discussion/comment/894200

    https://thephilosophyforum.com/discussion/comment/890076

    Can a brutha get an AMEN?! :sweat: :up:

    @Benkei @jorndoe @Wayfarer @jgill @Fooloso4 @Mikie et al
  • Are there primitive, unanalyzable concepts?
    I hold that some concepts are primitive and absolutely simple [ ... ] the best example I have: being (viz., ‘to be’, ‘existence’, ‘to exist’, etc.)Bob Ross
    My preferred example is 'the principle of noncontradiction' (PNC).
    non-circular definitions — Bob Ross
    all definitions are essentially circularnoAxioms
    :up:
  • The Meta-management Theory of Consciousness
    :roll:

    :up: :up:

    the counterintuitive phenomenon of "blindsight", in which patients behave as-if they see something, but report that they were not consciously aware of the objectGnomon
    Maybe you missed the link posted by @ "wonderer1" ...
    https://aeon.co/essays/how-blindsight-answers-the-hard-problem-of-consciousness
  • Hell, and the Perfect Selector
    I did not mention anything about "hatred" or "religion" so I don't know what you are talking about. My "ambigous" point was only that (at minimum) "hell" also may be conceived of as involuntary self-sabotage.
  • Hell, and the Perfect Selector
    Camus says "[Stupidity] is sin without God" and Dostoyevsky says "Hell ... being unable to love" (i.e. perpetual failure to learn from failure).
  • What are you listening to right now?
    8April24 :cool:

    There is no dark side in the moon, really. Matter of fact, it's all dark. The only thing that makes it look light is the sun. — Gerry O'Driscoll, doorman at Abbey Road Studios

    "Eclipse" (2:03)
    The Dark Side of the Moon, 1973
    lyrics Roger Waters
    performers Pink Floyd
  • Are there things that aren’t immoral but you shouldn’t want to be the kind of person that does them?
    With this in mind do you think there things that aren’t immoral but you still shouldn’t want to be the kind of person that does them even if you’re the only person affected?Captain Homicide
    I wouldn't want to live an 'unexamined life' or without ever wholeheartedly loving anyone else. I also wouldn't want be a coward or servile. (I'm sure there's more ...)
  • Being In the Middle
    I wonder if we forget our place if we don't sometimes remind ourselves of the middle.Fire Ologist
    Yes, we are 'beings-in-media-res'. I prefer Jasper's notion of 'Existenz' as conditioned, or grounded, by what he calls the encompassing¹ or even better, more concrete, Spinoza's/Deleuze's 'radical immanence' (i.e. eternal and infinite substance²).

    https://philonotes.com/2023/04/karl-jasperss-concept-of-encompassing ¹

    https://medium.com/indian-thoughts/the-world-as-immanence-415a86f5003d ²
  • Who is morally culpable?
    Determinism does not necessarily exclude "free will"; rather it can be conceptualized as conditioning – enabling-constraining – free actions re: compatibilism..
  • Who is morally culpable?
    Is determinism true?Truth Seeker
    "Determinism" is a thought-experiment, not a truth-claim – a supposition, not a proposition.

    How can we know for sure?
    We cannot "know" it, only imagine it.
  • Donald Trump (All General Trump Conversations Here)
    My statement was that there's no reason to believe Biden is any better.
    — boethius

    Exactly. Which is absurd and, I’ll repeat (accurately); if this is your conclusion, then you’re not paying attention. Plain and simple ... My suggestion is to read less philosophy— it’s not doing you any good here.
    Mikie
    :100: :up:
  • The Meta-management Theory of Consciousness
    I'm still 'processing' your MMT and wonder what you make of Thomas Metzinger's self-model of subjectivity (SMS) which, if you're unfamiliar with it, is summarized in the article (linked below) with an extensive review of his The Ego Tunnel.

    https://naturalism.org/resources/book-reviews/consciousness-revolutions

    Also, a short lecture by Metzinger summarizing the central idea of 'self-modeling' ...

    Thoughts?

    @bert1 @RogueAI @Jack Cummins @javi2541997 @Wayfarer
  • What's the Difference between Philosophy and Science?
    Now everything else can toss the coin (or when you do metaphysics, the coin can toss everything else).Fire Ologist
    :smirk:
  • What's the Difference between Philosophy and Science?
    I would say the two sides of the coin include science and philosophy together on the one side, keep the coin as the connector logic, but put everything else on the other side as the objects of science/philosophy.Fire Ologist
    Interesting. I agree with "the coin ... logic". However, suppose "everything else ... objects of science/philosophy" instead tosses the "coin", so to speak, again and again again dialectically. :chin:

    I hope the T.O.E. fails.ucarr
    You believe the goal of physicists' "T.O.E." is to explain "everything"? that it's not just physics but some final (super-natural) metaphysics? I thought the aim was to produce a testable unification of the fundamental forces of nature – to demonstrate they are aspects or modalities of one another – that's formulated into a G.U.T. (which would include QG). What does "everything" have to do with it? That's not physics. How is it even possible to test a purported explanation for "everything"?
  • Donald Trump (All General Trump Conversations Here)
    Today in Trumpenfreude:

    Past being prologue, on paper Loser-1 has lost $2 billion since last Friday 26March as Trump Media (DJT) stock crashed again on NASDAQ. Dead Grift Bounce! :lol:

    https://www.cnn.com/2024/04/05/business/trump-media-stock-sinks-post-merger-low/index.html
  • What religion are you and why?
    I read Robert Alter's biblical translationBitconnectCarlos
    :up:

    Though it's been years since I've read his books, I'd always found Robert Alter's scholarship excellent (i.e. rewards rereading), especially e.g. The Art of Biblical Narrative ... Necessary Angels: Tradition and Modernity in Kafka, Benjamin, and Scholem ... The Wisdom Books: Job, Proverbs and Ecclesiastes.

    Btw, have you read Spinoza's Tractatus, Theologico-Politicus? If so, BC, what did you think? And what about God In Search of Man by Abraham Heschel? Two more masterworks which have also helped to exorcize the last dregs of my latent Catholicism (re: Pauline Christianity). An 'irreligious atheist' through and through, the scars throughout my psyche of a dozen years of parochial schooling have never left me such that I'm still haunted by the Jewishness of "Christ" (read the Aramaic-English verson of the New Testament AND The Gospel of Jesus According to The Jesus Seminar) and thereby fascinated with biblical (or ancient) Judaism.
  • What's the Difference between Philosophy and Science?
    The scope of science includes more th[an] nature?ucarr
    AFAIK: no, it cannot.

    The scope of nature includes more than material things and their attendant physics?
    Yes (e.g. facts, subjects).

    I argue for the vanishing point of difference between science and philosophy through the essential linkage connecting brain and mind.
    I agree, but for a different reason: reality itself is the negation of impossibility (e.g. facts in contradiction to one another or to themselves; things with inconsistent properties), or that the Principle of Non-Contradiction (PNC) is the coin of the real(m) with complementary faces: Philosophy (roots, heads) and Science (branches, tails).

    NB: 'religion', however, is only an 'IOU' (fiat money).
  • US Election 2024 (All general discussion)
    (Writing this out now so you can throw it at me later if I’m wrong.)Mikie
    :smirk: :up:
  • US Election 2024 (All general discussion)
    5April24

    FWIW: my 2024 "election predictions" (based on (A) electoral trends 2017-2023 completely favoring Dems; (B) SCOTUS & MAGA-GOP taking away women's reproductive rights / criminalizing abortions; (C) consistent trend of 20% of GOP primary voters rejecting Loser-1 even after Haley, DeSantis & Christie suspended their campaigns; (D) Criminal Defendant-1 convicted in NY by June/July; (E) benefits of Biden's economy broadly felt by September; (F) etc):

    1. Biden-Harris reelected
    -gets 5-7 million more votes than Loser-1 again (even with lower turnout than 2020)
    -gets more (suburban) women voters
    -gets more under 35 year old voters
    -gets more minorities voters
    -gets more independent voters
    -wins 4-5 out of 7 "swing states" (plus 1-2 more "red states" (e.g. NC))

    2. Dems wins US Senate (+2 seat gain)

    3. Dems win US House (+20 seat gain)

    update:

    Third-party candidates RFK, J. Stein & C. West collectively will be a non-factor in the outcome of the 2024 election.
  • Donald Trump (All General Trump Conversations Here)
    Many[none] of these circumstances applied when Hillary ran and she lost.Benkei
    Not so, not even close ...

    https://thephilosophyforum.com/discussion/comment/851623

    That's my story and I'm sticking to it because my gut and my head tells me not to panic. Loser-1 and his MAGATs are going to keep on losing as they have every year since 2017. :victory: :mask:
  • Wondering about inverted qualia
    Ah well. I'm here to talk philosophy.AmadeusD
    :gasp:
  • Wondering about inverted qualia
    Qualia are experienced as non-physical.AmadeusD
    :roll:
  • Wondering about inverted qualia
    ... qualia (the subjective feel of experiences) cannot be accounted for purely by physical/functional properties ...Matripsa
    So what accounts for "qualia" other, or more efficacious, than "physical/functional properties"?
  • Understanding ethics in the case of Artificial Intelligence
    But AGI is limited to knowledge, and so, structurally, it can only decide and choose based on information already made explicit that it is told or learns.Antony Nickles
    This is incorrect even for today's neural networks' and LLMs' generative algorithms which clearly exhibit creativity (i.e. creating new knowledge or new solutions to old problems (e.g. neural network AlphaGo's 'unprecedented moves' in its domination of Go grandmaster Lee Sedol in 2016)). 'Human-level intelligence' entails creativity so there aren't any empirical grounds (yet?) to doubt that 'AGI' will be (at least) as creative (i.e. capable of imaging counterfactuals and making judgments which exceed its current knowledge) as its makers. It will be able to learn whatever we can learn and that among all else includes (if, for its own reasons, it chooses to learn) how to be a moral agent.