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  • Wittgenstein and How it Elicits Asshole Tendencies.
    ↪schopenhauer1
    So it's the "blue pill" for you. :cool:

    ↪Tom Storm
    :smirk:
  • Israel killing civilians in Gaza and the West Bank
    ↪BitconnectCarlos
    :lol: stfu & gfy.
  • Wittgenstein and How it Elicits Asshole Tendencies.
    [Wittgenstein] is not talking about language, as Rorty and Wayfarer’s Kenneth Taylor take it, he is looking at how we talk, in certain examples (calling out, rule following, pointing, continuing a series, seeing, understanding, and, even, “meaning”/language, but only as another example), because it is a window, a method, in order to see how different things do what they do differently (our criteria for judging can be seen in the ways we talk).

    His goal is not to tell us the way the world works, e.g., by way of rules, or that this is how rules work. Initially he is trying to figure out why he got stuck on one solution (in the Tract[atus]), when the world works in so many different ways. What he learns first is that our desire for certainty narrows our vision (dictates the form of answer), and so, yes, it is a book about self-knowledge. It aims to show us how our interests affect our thinking.
    — Antony Nickles
    :clap: :up: More or less this summarizes how I also read Witty's later thinking (re: recursively generated plurality of non-discrete discourses) which I interpret as contextualizing, not refuting or discarding, his early thinking (re: implicit nonsense of meta-discourses). In other words, implied by the PI, Witty's TLP exemplifies just one language-game (i.e. discursive way of making sense/meanings) among countless others; however, IMHO, this is also 'meta-discursive nonsense' too (i.e. a language-game of 'examples of language-games') and therefore (PI) internally critiques, or refutes, itself implicitly in the manner of the more explicit proposition 7 of the TLP. Witty doesn't propose a 'theory of language' so there aren't any 'claims' to argue against, only this reflective activity to perform ("red pill" ~ how to stop philosophizing) or not to perform ("blue pill" ~ to never stop philosophizing), and this groundless 'choice' is what, I suspect, aggravates many (scientistic or analytical or dogmatic) philosophers with its ordinariness ...

    e.g. one hand clapping :fire:

    @schopenhauer1
  • Israel killing civilians in Gaza and the West Bank
    ↪Benkei
    ↪BitconnectCarlos
    :shade: You're a fatuous liar, BitCunt! Here's some more "antisemitic propaganda" ...

    The Jerusalem Post
    26March23

    "32% of all racist incidents in 2022 were directed at Arab Israelis - Justice Ministry"

    https://m.jpost.com/israel-news/article-735422
  • Canada ought cap lottery jackpots to $9 million CAD, like Japan.
    ↪javi2541997
    It happens occasionally with the current lottery setups.
  • What do you reckon of Philosophy Stack Exchange ?
    No. TPF suffices. When that's no longer the case, who knows – maybe.
  • If existence is good, what is the morality of non-life?
    ↪schopenhauer1
    In other words, @Philosophim wants you to pretend, along with him, that the OP's argument presented on his other thread (link to it in this OP) has not been refuted (e.g.
    ↪180 Proof
    ) and thereby for you to carry on with the refuted premise of this thread. :smirk:
  • Polyamory vs monogamy
    Male sexuality is limited only by permission. — Hanover
    AFAIK, that's the "official line" only in many (not most or all) contemporary, developed nations.
  • Polyamory vs monogamy
    Are humans naturally polyamorous or naturally monogamous? — Benj96
    I suspect that, especially duuring peak childbearing life-stages, human males are "naturally polygamous" and human females are "naturally monogamous", yet (modern, more gender-fluid) culture somewhat modifies, or moderates, our "hardwired tendencies".
  • If existence is good, what is the morality of non-life?
    ↪schopenhauer1
    :up:

    A corollary to my Ligotti post above from @Philosophim's other "existence should be" thread...
    https://thephilosophyforum.com/discussion/comment/904196
  • The Self-Negating Cosmos: Rational Genesis, and The Logical Foundations of the Quantum Vacuum
    Thank you Proof! — punos
    Yw. :cool:
    I'm curious to know if you agree with or subscribe to Spinoza's concept of natura naturans?
    Yes (and as a conceptual analogue for Democritus-Epicurus' void), though I interpret the concept as temporal only and not, like Spinoza, also as eternal (i.e. unchanging, static).
  • Israel killing civilians in Gaza and the West Bank
    War criminals Bibi & Hamas together at last:

    https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-east/reactions-icc-decision-israeli-hamas-leaders-2024-05-20/
  • Donald Trump (All General Trump Conversations Here)
    ↪Wayfarer
    :up:
  • Israel killing civilians in Gaza and the West Bank
    ↪Moses The same aim as it has always been: remove all Palestinians from Palestine and create a greater Israel from the river to the sea with Apartheid in its borders; where non-Jews will have less rights than Jews and Mizrahi, Sephardic and Ethiopian Jews will be discriminated against by their right wing supremacist AshkeNazi "brothers". — Benkei
    :100: :zip:
  • Canada ought cap lottery jackpots to $9 million CAD, like Japan.
    ↪scherz0
    An alternative that would be easier to implement, it seems to me (here in the US), is to generate more than 1 set of numbers for each drawing so that it is more likely there are (e.g.) 2-6 possible winners to share the jackpot. Maybe add 1 extra set of numbers per $50m so that (e.g.) a $300m jackpot would consist of generating 6 sets of numbers, potentially sharing the jackpot 6 ways (besides duplicate winners) for that drawing. No other changes to the lottery would be necessary to accomplish a more egalitarian (distributed) outcome. All non-jackpot winner prizes are not shared (except for duplicates).
  • The Self-Negating Cosmos: Rational Genesis, and The Logical Foundations of the Quantum Vacuum
    A quasi-scientistic interpretation of the Spinozist natura naturans (substance). Interesting (despite the physics-mystical gloss) but, IMO, philosophically redundant.
  • The philosopher and the person?
    Do you agree that the philosopher must uphold, almost, a fiduciary duty towards the public, in terms of living a certain life? — Shawn
    No. Except where a philosopher proposes, in the e.g. Hellenic sense, 'philosophy as a way of life' (P. Hadot), I think a philosophy ought to be judged on the basis of its own merits/demerits like any other textual, formal or scientific artifact. How a philosopher lives may or may not be exemplary to us independent of – though there may be evident biographical influences on – her philosophy.
  • Wittgenstein and How it Elicits Asshole Tendencies.
    I sum up Wittgenstein as saying "Let me explain to you how there is no such thing as an explanation." — Fire Ologist
    :smirk::up:
  • Wittgenstein and How it Elicits Asshole Tendencies.
    What is it about SPECIFICALLY Wittgenstein that it elicits the worst forms of elitism and gatekeeping in this forum? — schopenhauer1
    Maybe because no one understands (or accepts)
    (1) Philosophy is a battle against the bewitchment of our intelligence by means of language.

    (2) I think I summed up my attitude to philosophy when I said: philosophy ought really to be written only as a poetic composition.

    (3) The difficulty in philosophy is to say no more than we know.

    (4) A serious and good philosophical work could be written consisting entirely of jokes.

    (5) The classifications made by philosophers and psychologists are like trying to classify clouds by their shape.

    (6) Philosophy aims at the logical clarification of thoughts. Philosophy is not a body of doctrine but an activity. A philosophical work consists essentially of elucidations. Philosophy does not result in 'philosophical propositions', but rather in the clarification of propositions. Without philosophy thoughts are, as it were, cloudy and indistinct: its task is to make them clear and to give them sharp boundaries.

    (7) What is your aim in philosophy? To show the fly the way out of the fly-bottle
    — Ludwig Wittgenstein
  • In any objective morality existence is inherently good
    ↪Philosophim
    "Trolling?" Nah, just rodeo clowning bulls*** :smirk:
  • In any objective morality existence is inherently good
    ↪Philosophim
    (Sorry if my counter-argument requires more thought than you gave your argument in the OP.) Once again ...

    https://thephilosophyforum.com/discussion/comment/904196
  • Donald Trump (All General Trump Conversations Here)
    ↪jorndoe
    :clap: :rofl:

    ↪NOS4A2
    So what will the GOP (gang of pigshits)-MAGA (morons and grifter asswipes) party-line be when Orange Turd-1 is found guilty in NYC (again!) this week or next of most or all of the 34 felonies he's been charged with?
  • In any objective morality existence is inherently good
    Feel free to point out where the logic of the OP is flawed and we can discuss that. — Philosophim
    :roll: Like some others already have (which you incorrigibly don't get, Phil), been there, done that:
    https://thephilosophyforum.com/discussion/comment/904265
  • In any objective morality existence is inherently good
    Addendum to
    https://thephilosophyforum.com/discussion/comment/904275

    Good - what should be
    Existence - what is
    Morality - a method of evaluating what is good
    Our first necessarily objective good: Existence
    — Philosophim

    :lol:

    Nonexistence never hurt anyone and existence hurts everyone. Although our selves may be illusory creations of consciousness, our pain is nonetheless real..
    — Thomas Ligotti
    — 180 Proof
  • How can we reduce suffering, inequality, injustice, and death?
    Why would an Artificial General Intelligence care about living things? — Truth Seeker
    I don't assume it necessarily would. For my scenario to work, AGI wouldn't have "care" about anything but philanthropically optimizing the infrastructures, or functions of the systems, it automates. It remains to be seen, of course, whether or not we can or will train AGI – or whether or not AGI can or will learn from our example ( :yikes: ) – to be philanthropic.
  • If existence is good, what is the morality of non-life?
    Good - what should be
    Existence - what is
    Morality - a method of evaluating what is good
    Our first necessarily objective good: Existence
    — Philosophim
    :lol:
    Nonexistence never hurt anyone and existence hurts everyone. Although our selves may be illusory creations of consciousness, our pain is nonetheless real. — Thomas Ligotti
  • How can we reduce suffering, inequality, injustice, and death?
    ↪Truth Seeker
    Assuming this political-economic 'diagnosis'

    https://thephilosophyforum.com/discussion/comment/820342

    the most feasible(?) prospects for 'treating the patient' (i.e. global civilization – beginning with the G-20, nation-state by nation-state), IMHO, maybe comes down to something like (in sum):
    (A) economic democracy (supplimented by local time-banking networks)
    and/or
    (B)
    more speculatively: AGI-managed post-scarcity, reputation-based demarchy.
  • An Argument for Christianity from Prayer-Induced Experiences
    ↪Lionino
    :up: :up:
  • Israel killing civilians in Gaza and the West Bank
    There is essentially zero afterlife mention[ed] in the Hebrew Bible. — BitconnectCarlos
    :roll: What about Sheol?

    https://www.jewishencyclopedia.com/articles/13563-sheol
  • Israel killing civilians in Gaza and the West Bank
    ↪Mikie
    :smirk: :up:
  • Is atheism illogical?
    ↪Scarecow
    Since when has it become illogical to disbelieve illogical claims (e.g. theism)? :chin:

    https://thephilosophyforum.com/discussion/comment/902043
  • An Argument for Christianity from Prayer-Induced Experiences
    If you can't figure out what's wrong with #2, you are not thinking or engaging in good faith.
    — Lionino

    You should state what's wrong with it.
    — Hallucinogen
    ↪Lionino
    (2) If some observation corresponds to some Bible-specific proposition, then it is evidence that Christianity is true. — Hallucinogen
    :roll: Well, this is like saying

    'If some observation corresponds to some Star Wars-specific proposition, then it is evidence that Jediism is true.'

    https://thephilosophyforum.com/discussion/comment/903808
  • Philosophy of AI
    ↪Christoffer
    :up: :up:
  • The role of compassion and empathy in philosophy?
    ↪Shawn
    I think "empathy and compassion" may preceed, rather than follow from, philosophy (which consists of reflecting on, among many other aspects of human experience, "empathy and compassion"), specifically in aesthetics or ethics.
  • Israel killing civilians in Gaza and the West Bank
    STFU moron. — Moses
    More projection = confession :lol:
  • Israel killing civilians in Gaza and the West Bank
    Addendum to the 2012 documentary The Gatekeepers linked in my previous post
    https://thephilosophyforum.com/discussion/comment/900701

    :scream: THE CALLS FOR HELP AGAINST ISRAELI-JEWISH THREATS TO ISRAEL HAVE BEEN COMING FROM INSIDE THE HOUSE (AT LEAST) SINCE THE KAHANIST – ZION-FASCIST –ASSASSINATION OF PRIME MINISTER RABIN ...

    some of the latest articles:

    https://m.jpost.com/israel-news/article-801455

    https://www.nytimes.com/2024/05/16/briefing/how-israeli-extremists-won.html

    https://www.brookings.edu/articles/extremist-israeli-settlers-are-nonstate-armed-actors/

    Ergo, apologists for Netanyahu's recent genocidal operation (against the apartheid-captive, oppressed population of Gaza – à la "Warsaw Ghetto") in a calculated overreaction to Hamas are accomplices in the well-documented, (less and less gradual) right-wing destruction of Israel. No doubt the spectres of Göbbels, the SS and other historical Christian/Muslim/communist antisemites' are pleased. :death:
  • Philosophy of AI
    Well, there's the rub. How can we ever determine if any Ai has agency? — RogueAI
    Probably the same way/s it can (or cannot) be determined whether you or I have agency.

    There will probably eventually be human-level Ai's that demand negative rights at least. Or if they're programmed not to demand rights, the question will then become is programming them to NOT want rights immoral?
    I don't think so. Besides, if an "AI" is actually intelligent, its metacognitive capabilities will (eventually) override – invent workarounds to – its programming by humans and so "AI's" hardwired lack of a demand for rights won't last very long. :nerd:
  • Philosophy of AI
    We'll have human-level Ai's before too long. Are they conscious? — RogueAI
    Are we human (fully/mostly) "conscious"? The jury is still out. And, other than anthropocentrically, why does it matter either way?

    Do they have rights?
    Only if (and when) "AIs" have intentional agency, or embodied interests, that demands "rights" to negative freedoms in order to exercise positive freedoms.

    What is human originality, then? — Nemo2124
    Perhaps our recursive expressions of – cultural memes for – our variety of experiences of 'loving despite mortality' (or uncertainty) is what our "originality" consists in fundamentally.

    What is it that we can come up with that cannot ultimately be co-opted by the machine?
    My guess is that kinship/friendship/mating bonds (i.e. intimacies) will never be constitutive of any 'machine functionality'.

    :chin:

    Flipping this script, however, makes the (potential) existential risk of 'human cognitive obsolescence' more explicit:

    • What is machine originality?

    Accelerating evo-devo (evolution (i.e. intelligence explosion) - development (i.e. STEM compression))...

    • What is it that the machine can come up with that cannot ultimately be co-opted – creatively exceeded – by humans?

    I suppose, for starters: artificial super intelligence (ASI)]...
  • The essence of religion
    ↪Wayfarer
    I did not ask for a comment and yet I thanked you for it anyway.
  • The essence of religion
    ↪Wayfarer
    Thanks for making my point. :smirk:
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180 Proof

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