• TPF Quote Cabinet
    Last year, I had a life-changing experience at 90 years old. I went to space, after decades of playing an iconic science-fiction character who was exploring the universe. I thought I would experience a deep connection with the immensity around us, a deep call for endless exploration.

    "I was absolutely wrong. The strongest feeling, that dominated everything else by far, was the deepest grief that I had ever experienced.

    "I understood, in the clearest possible way, that we were living on a tiny oasis of life, surrounded by an immensity of death. I didn’t see infinite possibilities of worlds to explore, of adventures to have, or living creatures to connect with. I saw the deepest darkness I could have ever imagined, contrasting so starkly with the welcoming warmth of our nurturing home planet.

    "This was an immensely powerful awakening for me. It filled me with sadness. I realized that we had spent decades, if not centuries, being obsessed with looking away, with looking outside. I did my share in popularizing the idea that space was the final frontier. But I had to get to space to understand that Earth is and will stay our only home. And that we have been ravaging it, relentlessly, making it uninhabitable.
    — William Shatner, actor

    *

    Man cannot endure his littleness unless he can translate it into meaningfulness on the largest possible level. — Ernest Becker
  • Deep Songs
    Brilliant! Thank you. :hearts: :flower:
  • US Election 2024 (All general discussion)
    Ah, I see. You drank the DNC koolaid. Facts be damned. Gotcha. Have a good one, Rogue.
  • US Election 2024 (All general discussion)
    If Gore had won his home state of Tennessee and Clinton's home state of Arkansas, the Bush machine stealing Florida wouldn't have mattered.
  • US Election 2024 (All general discussion)
    I remember when Ralph Nader, who I admire, cost Gore the election ...RogueAI
    I don't remember this. What I do remember is that an incumbent vice-president during a time of (domestic) 'peace & prosperity' lost both the popular incumbent president's home state AND his own home state, which put in play Florida which was controlled at the time by the Bush family. Maybe – as a Green Party activist from the late 80s throughout the 90s and supporter of Nader three times for president – my recall is biased, but nonetheless Gore lost both Arkansas & Tennessee (and had refused to let Bill Clinton – unquestionably the best retail politician of his generation – campaign for him in the weeks before election day) contributed significantly more to him losing the election than a very marginal third party candidacy (IIRC, even Pat Buchanan, the far right Reform party candidate, received more votes than Gore had in some Dem precincts according to Florida election officials ... which even got chuckles from Buchanan on cable news). Blaming Gore's loss in 2000 on Nader is, it seems to me, as deluded and/or disingenuous as blaming HRC's loss in 2016 on "Bernie Bros". In both cases – losing the electors for states which, but for the Dems, wouldn't have been in play while also winning the popular vote (a feat which hadn't happened since the late 19th century) – poorly run campaigns of unlikeable candidates, aided and abetted by the DNC no less, threw away those elections.
  • US Election 2024 (All general discussion)
    If I had to, I bet that Trump won't be the GOP nominee (though a MAGA shithead will be).
  • US Election 2024 (All general discussion)
    Yeah, in 2024 that "1 way to lose" will be the same as 2016: HRC. The Dems don't learn new tricks often ... though maybe VP Harris :yikes: (if Biden drops out of the race and the Dems don't nominate e.g. Gov Newsom, Gov Whitmer, et al) – HRC redux.

    Btw, Putin's Bitch & MAGA GOP candidates have lost in 2018, 2020 & 2022. Despite media hysteria (which is needed apparently to keep the rabble mobilized), MAGA GOP prospects in 2024 are even bleaker in no small part due to SCOTUS' 2022, 2023 (& probably 2024) rulings.

    Not seeing that leftward shift in independents yetMikie
    Neither do I. Be patient. Remember "the red tsunami" of 2022? The GOP "sweep" was predicted it had seemed by everybody (except me).
    https://thephilosophyforum.com/discussion/comment/756539
    Thanks, "Independents". :smirk:
  • God and the Present
    Only the present is real.Art48
    A nonsensical statement due to the fact that neither past nor future are escapable in – separable from – the present.
  • The Argument from Reason
    I don't think Einstein was thinking about imagination as a faculty standing free from science, but rather in its service.Janus
    :up:

    I took the point to be the claim that life originates as a chance event.Wayfarer
    "Biological evolution" models the development of life just as "Big Bang cosmology" models the development of the universe – neither model explains the "origin" of life or the universe, respectively. However, as reasons to the best explanation, both models (usually) eliminate intelligent reliance on non/super-natural "origin stories".
  • US Election 2024 (All general discussion)
    As long as Shillary isn't the supremely unpopular Dems nominee who carelessly throws away the election again, IMO, Traitor-Seditionist1 can't win.
  • US Election 2024 (All general discussion)
    Whoever the Dem candidate will be in the end will decisively beat any GOP canditate in 2024 due to a significamt "leftward" shift in support by Independents and higher turnout by Dems base voters because of Traitor-Seditionist-1's multiple prosecutions and SCOTUS' MAGA decisions on abortion plus ...
    https://thephilosophyforum.com/discussion/comment/819011
  • US Supreme Court (General Discussion)
    MAGA Supremes are pulling the plug on stare decisis in judicial review? And yet Biden still opposes 'packing the court'. :shade:
  • What do we know?
    ... the pleasure of pursuing knowledge.Torus34
    Science "pursues knowledge" and AFAIK philosophy does not (but rather makes explicit and interprets (for flourishing) what we do not – perhaps, cannot – know). In either regard, "The Simulation Hypothesis" seems to me an idle thought-experiment.
  • What do we know?
    Science has no idea how brains produce consciousness.RogueAI
    Not quite true (e.g. vide T. Metzinger), but even if you're right, philosophy has only fantasy (i.e. folk psychology), not even an "idea how".
  • The Argument from Reason
    Naturalism is a conceptual paradigm, biology is a natural science, NeoDarwinian Evolution is a scientific model. Try not to confuse, or conflate, them, Wayfarer. 'Objections to naturalism' are irrelevant to biology, chemistry, physics, etc.
  • What do we know?
    Consciousness requires nerve impulses???RogueAI
    At least in h. sapiens it does.

    No possibility of machine consciousness?
    Non sequitur.

    No possibility that this is a simulation?
    For starters, what difference would such a "possibility" make to us ontologically, existentially or pragmatically?
  • The Argument from Reason
    What does some "philosophical argument" have to do with a well-tested biological theory? :mask:
  • What do we know?
    :up:

    How do nerve impulses create conscious experiences?RogueAI
    How are "conscious experiences" "created" without "nerve impulses"? :roll:
  • The Argument from Reason
    :up:

    ... anything designated 'revealed truth' will be discounted ...Wayfarer
    Any "truth" that lacks a truth-maker or corroborating public evidence is reasonably discountable (Hume, Kant, Clifford, Popper, Sagan), except, at best, as a fiction.
  • What do we know?
    The problem isn't whether it's a probable possibility but, rather, that it cannot be logically ruled out.Torus34
    The "logic" may be valid but its soundness is dubious at best. An infinity of such notions "cannot be logically ruled out", but so what? Life is short, we need to sort out which of relatively few ideas are worthy of our limited time and energy to seriously consider. By all means, as I'm not aware of any nontrivial^^ grounds, please cite some for bothering to make an effort to think through "the simulation hypothesis". :chin:


    ^^(a distinction that makes no ontological and/or existential and/or pragmatic difference)
  • What do we know?
    What grounds are there to believe "we are living in a simulation"? or, more precisely, to doubt that physical reality is more – other – than a simulation?
  • US Supreme Court (General Discussion)
    The court's decision on affirmative action is as surprising as its decision on abortion. [ ... ] If affirmative action is a gateway to a BA, MA, and PhD, a ton of debt, and a run-of-the-mill job (which it will be for some) the loss isn't as great as it might seem to be.BC
    :up:
  • The Argument from Reason
    I'm not as familiar with philosophical literature as you are, so I Googled ...
    With no formal training in Philosophy, I began from the conjunction of two modern sciences --
    My primitive understanding has evolved ...
    My personal worldview ... PanEnDeism ... rehash of outdated mind/body Dualism/Spiritualism.
    :eyes: :cry: :lol:
  • The Argument from Reason
    So the question then becomes, is intelligence [adaptation] physical?Wayfarer
    Yes.

    So, what is it that organises the elements of the periodic table in such a way as to give rise to living beings?
    Quantum computation (re: Seth Lloyd, Stephen Wolfram, David Deutsch).
  • The Argument from Reason
    Of course you will assume that information is physical ...Wayfarer
    For the *Quantum Woo Crew* ...

    You're welcome, gents. :smirk:

    @Gnomon

    encore:
  • How Does Language Map onto the World?
    If we suppose that there no realist notion of language, what is it that language does when we attempt to describe reality?Tom Storm
    Language usage orients language-users.

    (I've generally held that language is metaphorical, but then what?)
    Yep. Read George Lakoff et al.

    ... do we need a theory of language that explains how any realist claim is possible in order to accept those claims?
    Nope. (Witty's 'nonsense', re: TLP)

    If we do not employ a realist account of language (as per postmodern thinkers), what is it we can meaningfully say about this notion of 'reality' we are so fond of describing and seems to be a substitute for god?
    This depends on the language-game you're engaged in which uses the term "reality".

    ... theory of language was not possible because it falls to the self-referential paradox that it is unable to give an account of itself.

    Is this problem insurmountable or overstated?
    No. Yes. Read Witty's PI as a contextual extension (rather than critical refutation or theoretical correction) of his TLP. The latter expresses only one possible language-game (re: logical atomism) out of innumerably many other language-games suggested in the former.

    I think Hilary Lawson loses the plot – the problem of the criterion (and its ilk) arises from confusing maps with territories and then complaining that 'maps =/= territories is an intractable paradox' when it's not: in practice, a map is made by abstracting features of interest from a given territory just as language is used to discursively make explicit (e.g. problematize) the invariant, ineluctable, conditions (i.e. "reality") of their circumstance. To avoid circle-jerking p0m0 / anti-realist nonsense, language must be shown (reflectively practiced) rather than said (theorized-via-language).
  • The Argument from Reason
    I'll take your latest non-answer as a concession to my edifying points here
    https://thephilosophyforum.com/discussion/comment/818106 You're welcome, Wayf. :smirk:
  • The Argument from Reason
    The apparently inviolable constraints of physical laws have been transcended many times in the history of science.Wayfarer
    Cite an instance when and where Newton's 3rd Law and/or any conservation laws "have been transcended" even once. :lol:
  • The Argument from Reason
    Discerning precisely what is meant by materialism, physicalism or naturalism can seem tricky.Tom Storm
    They are only "tricky" for idealists like @Wayfarer who prefer to torch strawmen – mischaracterizing a speculative paradigm such as naturalism as an explanatory theory – which is far easier to do than to demonstrate that idealism is a less ad hoc, less incoherent, less subjective paradigm than naturalism, etc. Naturalism does not explain "consciousness", yet idealism – which rationalizes folk psychological concepts (often ad absurdum) – conspicuously explains "consciousness" even less so.

    And in a broader sense, many of our intellectual processes rely on immaterial entities, such as numbers, ratios, laws, and so on. Humans are situated between two worlds, so to speak - the physical world, governed by the laws of physics, but also the world of ideas and reasons, 'the space of reasons' as it has been called.Wayfarer
    Unwarranted, question-begging, substance dualism as well as a reification / misplaced concreteness fallacy (à la platonism). Abstractions themselves do not "act upon matter" because they are not evental (or causal); rather instantiations (encoding / patterning) of abstractions (from matter) in matter act upon matter (e.g. typing on my keyboard these sentences you're reading on your screen), which refutes your dogma, sir, that "matter does not act but is only acted upon" (as if Newton's 3rd Law & conservation laws are violated, or miraculosly suspended, by "ideas"). :eyes: :roll:

    ... has anything physical passed between us?Wayfarer
    Of course, information (i.e. instantiated patterns).
  • The Argument from Reason
    We have no knowledge or experience of any immaterial entity of process. Absent evidence, reasoned argument that such may or must exist is idle speculation and leads nowhere.Fooloso4
    :100: :up:
  • Insect Consciousness
    Some of the materialists here get all huffy when you ask them if insects are conscious.RogueAI
    Not "insects" per se, but entities without nervous systems (e.g. stars, rocks, cells, atoms).
  • Masculinity
    I dispute the premise of your.question by countering it with my own.
  • The Argument from Reason
    Shall I paraphrase?Wayfarer
    Given that I'd addressed your statement, sir, please "paraphrase" what you think, not what others think. You do think for yourself, don't you?

    @Jamal
  • The Argument from Reason
    Let's keep things simple and clear, Wayfarer. I'm interested in your dogmatic statement about matter and have questioned you here
    https://thephilosophyforum.com/discussion/comment/817594
    and again in my last post. Either you can answer the question I have asked or you can't. Quoting walls of other people's texts without answering my questions comes across as telling me to "fuck off". :brow:
  • The Argument from Reason
    Say if I suggested 'mind' or 'consciousness' as a hypothetical answer -Wayfarer
    By "mind or consciousness" you're claiming, in effect, that matter is only acted upon by immateral entities or processes – is that right?