• Socialism vs capitalism
    I would ask simple questions:
    1. Why does one human wish to be more powerful and have more wealth than any other?
    universeness
    Probably because h. sapiens are about a chromosome and a half away from p. troglodytes (chimpanzees).

    Are such drives/motivations, 100% connected to our 'survival of the fittest, jungle rules, beginnings?'
    The history of h. sapiens' dominance hierarchies (i.e. civilizations, sovereigns / states, cults-communes) certainly suggests such a sociobiological "connection".

    If so, then what does the notion of 'civilisation,' really mean to humans?
    In practice – dynastic-oligarchical dominance hierarchy.

    2. Do you think 8 billion humans, fully co-operating, could achieve more than 8 billion humans competing under the control of an elite global few?
    No. Not under conditions (status quo) of political-economic scarcity.

    3. Can the human species find common cause, when we consider the scale of the universe and the resources available within it?
    We haven't yet in over half a century. It's certainly not in the interest of shareholders who profit from – dominate by – exploiting natural and/or man-made / strategic scarcities.

    4. Consider unfettered capitalism in permanent action, forever unchallenged, what would you predict,
    would be the main result of such a permanent global system, for our species?
    Eventually 'survival of the elitest' (millions, not billions) in scattered networks (sprawls) of AI-automated enclaves. Think: Ayn Randian dystopias à la Judge Dredd or Blade Runner (without Replicants).

    https://thephilosophyforum.com/discussion/comment/787957

    https://thephilosophyforum.com/discussion/comment/801029
  • Donald Trump (All General Trump Conversations Here)
    :up:
    @Hanover @Maw

    Any guesses how much bail the judge will set for Seditionist-Traitor-Rapist1 in Fulton County, Georgia?
  • Thing-in-itself, Referent, Kant...Schopenhauer
    I've never read any of Schopenhauer's works, but [ ... ]Gnomon
    :smirk:
  • Southern pride?
    I was born and raised in NYC in 1960s-1970s. My father's family was from the Old South. I lived in Atlanta from 1996-2002 and again from 2016-2022, also spending long visits in the surrounding states and Virginia ("up south") as well. In the main, I suspect "Southern Pride" mostly comes from a regional legacy of feeling "undefeated" despite losing a catastrophic, futile (according even to Shelby Foote) secessionist-insurrectionist "civil war". The South has survived Lee's surrender at Appomattox in 1865; thus goes the mantra "The South will rise again" – fallen but not broken. No doubt an over-inflated sense of pride attempts to compensate for a very deep sense (conscious or not) of either shame or guilt for centuries of chattal slavery, apartheid-segregation and other forms of white-on-black terrorism. IMHO as a one-time "carpetbagger", for historical as well as many cultural reasons, I locate the American "heartland" (almost entirely) below the Mason-Dixon line and east of the muddy Mississippi River.
  • Donald Trump (All General Trump Conversations Here)
    My guess is the "J6 trial" will be set for March '24 – the "Falsified Business Records trial" in Manhattan will be moved from March to ??? – and the defense will just have to suck it up. :sweat:
  • Donald Trump (All General Trump Conversations Here)
    From a year-old post ...
    Btw, DJT will be stricken from some key state ballots due to provisions in US 14th Amendment, Sec. 3 because of the findings of J6 Committee and subsequent state & federal indictments, so the fat old orange fascist fuck won't be able to run again in '24 (though he'll still be a player / spoiler of some sort.)180 Proof
    News flash @NOS4A2 Anti-"Deep State" Federalist Society legal scholars argue that Seditionist-Traitor-Rapist1 is CONSTITUTIONALLY DISQUALIFIED from ever being POTUS again:

    https://www.law.uchicago.edu/news/william-baude-and-colleague-write-about-section-3-disqualification-trump-holding-office



    Thoughts?

    @Ciceronianus @Hanover @Maw
  • If there is a god, is he more evil than not?
    And on and on and hosanna. That is to say apparently gaslighting seems to be the answer.schopenhauer1
    :up:
  • If there is a god, is he more evil than not?

    From an old thread "The Problem of Evil"...
    The only deity consistent with a world (it purportedly created and sustains) ravaged by natural afflictions (e.g. living creatures inexorably devour living creatures; congenital birth defects; etc), man-made catastrophes and self-inflicted interpersonal miseries is either a Sadist or a fiction – neither of which are worthy of worship.180 Proof
  • Rationalism's Flat Ontology
    rationality itself is godplaque flag
    :fire:
  • What are you listening to right now?
    Robbie Robertson - lyrics & guitar, d. 2023
  • Atheist Cosmology
    In this conversation, I want to examine whether or not positing evolution in place of a creator amounts, in the end, to the same thing as ...ucarr
    Evolution explains the development of life and not its origin like (so called) "creationism", so it's no more a substitute for an inexplicable (alleged)"creator" than astronomy is "posited in place of" astrology or modern medicine is "posited in place of" faith-healing. Evidence-based stories and evidence-free (faith-based) stories have incommensurable discursive functions and are not interchangeable, or substituteable one for the other.

    ... positing a creator in place of evolution.
    "A creator" is either "posited in place of" We Don't Know Yet – as a creator-of-the-gaps placeholder – or bullshitted denialism of modern evolutionary biology.
  • Dramaturgical Ontology (The Necessity of Existentialism)
    So there's an existential decision to live in a beautifully impersonal way, which I understand as maximally social.plaque flag
    ... or minimally egoic (e.g. Laozi's wu wei, Epicurus' aponia, Pyrrho's epochē, Spinoza's scientia intuitiva, Nietzsche's amor fati, Zapffe-Camus' absurd, Rosset's cruelty ...)

    I want to be us and not just me.
    How about you – second person plural – such as Buber's Ich-Du (or even Dao)?

    I want to strive heroically against my own petty finitude, toward the relative infinity of Feuerbach's species-essence.
    à la Meillassoux / Brassier! :fire:
  • Dramaturgical Ontology (The Necessity of Existentialism)
    Reality apart from human personality is a useful fiction.plaque flag
    This immanentist agrees. :up:
  • The Worldly Foolishness of Philosophy
    What is this reality ?plaque flag
    Whatever reality is, reality necessarily excludes – negates – unreality (i.e. ontological impossibles (e.g. un-condittionals, un-changeables, reified ideas ('ideals'), etc)).
  • Dramaturgical Ontology (The Necessity of Existentialism)
    Zapffe himself pointed out that his produced works were the product of sublimation.
    — Wiki

    Becker and others make the same point. Life has a horrible aspect, and we meet it with narratives and symbols that mitigate that horror. The first heroic task as a child is ceasing to shit one's pants. A 'spiritual' being is a cultural or sublimated being
    plaque flag
    :up: :up:

    What does the game of philosophy always presuppose ?plaque flag
    Flesh (facticity).

    The living breathing ontologist has a certain kind of personality. To what degree is philosophy a personal quest for honesty that leads toward a self-consciously critical and fallible conversation ?plaque flag
    I suppose to the degree one believes the path is not the destination.

    Does the true scientist (I include, controversially, a person like Husserl) take science personally ? How else could it be taken?
    IIRC, Husserl begins as a mathematician ... I imagine Spinoza, like Epicurus, would "take" thinking – reflective inquiry/practice – impersonally.

    I don't think it's an accident that we understand one another and ourselves as total characters, nor do I think literature is far from ontology.
    Maps are not "far from" models yet neither are equivalent to the territory as (sub)personal – existential – biases would have us believe (re: folk psychology). Btw, I'm with Beckett (even Cioran): I don't think we ever "understand" one another any more than we chew swallow digest & shit one another's shits. :smirk:

    I'm saying for my own self, not quoting scripture, that the ego is and must be flesh. No doubt a mystic can claim otherwiseplaque flag
    :point: https://thephilosophyforum.com/discussion/comment/827494
  • Hidden Dualism
    Maybe; but so what? It's not an inherent defect or entailment of "materialist conceptions".
  • The Worldly Foolishness of Philosophy
    What can the philosopher offer ?plaque flag
    Exemplary daily exorcisms of foolery (re: meta-ignorance (i.e. agnotologies (e.g. pseudo-discourses, sophistries)); expectations misaligned with reality (i.e. self-immiseration, alienation, dukkha); maladaptive habits of mind (e.g. mis/ab-uses of communication, judgment, knowledge), etc) aka "spiritual exercises".
  • Hidden Dualism
    Property dualism (i.e. dual-aspect monism), for instance, is not "hidden".
  • Emergence
    We probably have passed the point of no return in some ways ...universeness
    Apologies for continuing to flog this equine's carcass:
    https://www.dw.com/en/sea-surface-temperature-hotter-than-ever-before/a-66444694
  • What Are You Watching Right Now?
    ... towards 'apophatic enstasis' :fire:

    @javi2541997
    @Quixodian
  • TPF Quote Cabinet
    What matters is the fact that there is existence. Existence is not a property of things. Things are properties of existence. Existence is not a property of God. Existence is God. Existence is that which is. All contingent/created things are properties of existence and are made out of existence. — "EnPassant

    I follow Spinoza in thinking that the ideas of extensa and cogitans merely represent two perspectives on things. — Janus

    If X is Transcendent AND if X is a Fact, then X belongs to TF-set. The set's okay, there just are not any members (so far) which (can) satisfy both rules  simultaneously. — 180 Proof, c2008
  • Is Philosophy still Relevant?
    Has our civilization evolved to the point where philosophy can be dispensed with?Pantagruel
    No. We haven't yet outgrown religion, politics or science, all of which require critical analyses and reflective interpretations.

    [H]as philosophy moved from being an "outlier" to a superfluous branch of study?
    I suppose it depends on where, what and why one studies.

    Does philosophy still contribute?
    Yes.

    When you are reading it, do you feel you are contributing?
    Yes.
  • The Scientific Method
    The author of Against Method also thinks so.
  • Donald Trump (All General Trump Conversations Here)
    @NOS4A2 & other MAGAsshats ...

    BELATED HAPPY 3RD INDICTMENT DAY! :party:

    BELATED HAPPY 3RD ARREST & ARRAIGNMENT DAY! :clap:

    Next up for Seditionist-Traitor-Rapist1 (aka the "Grifter-in-Chief" of Mar-a-Lago):
    https://www.wsbtv.com/news/local/fulton-county/fulton-county-sheriff-says-well-have-mugshot-if-former-pres-trump-is-indicted-locally/TT5AC7DCTBGQLCHRKS2BO5NMRU/

    :up:
  • Is Philosophy still Relevant?
    While much is made of Nietzsche’s Dionysian desires, it is the Apollonian maxim: know thyself, that is central to Nietzsche. But to know yourself you must become who you are. This is not a matter of discovery but of creation. Nietzsche takes the exhortation to become who you are from the Greek poet Pindar. For both Plato and Nietzsche philosophy is a form of poiesis. Their knowing is creating.

    Whatever light the philosopher brings to the cave it remains a cave. The transformation brought about by philosophy is self-transformation.
    Fooloso4
    :100: :fire:
  • Evidence of Consciousness Surviving the Body
    Actually, there is far more of a vested – self-flattering – interest in im-materialism (i.e. spiritualism, idealism) than "materialism", as you say, which is much too impersonal and mechanical for any sort of emotional investment, or personal bias.
    — 180 Proof

    Might be true if the concept of matter was coherent, which it isn't, ...
    Quixodian
    I don't understand this reply.

    ... or science could explain how matter gives rise to consciousness, which it can't[
    How do you KNOW this?
  • Atheist Cosmology
    The thesis remains unclear, and prima facie incoherent. — Banno
    :up:
  • Evidence of Consciousness Surviving the Body
    You're talking about dogmatism and I was not.

    I think the evidence is overwhelming, so for me I know there is an afterlife. It's an epistemological answer. I'm not guessing, surmising, giving an opinion, speculating, or expressing an intuition.Sam26
    You have not provided any publicly accessible evidence or sound arguments for an "afterlife" which hold up under even the most rudimentary scrutiny. What you think you "know", sir, is unwarranted, and therefore, dogmatic at best or delusional at worse. Your threads on this topic conspicuously corroborate my criticisms – and I have never based my rejection of your claims on "materialism" but on the demonstable insufficiency of your claims themselves.
  • Atheist Cosmology
    :roll: Compositional fallacy. Just because some individual organisms might be "purposeful" does not entail that a population (or global process like evolution) is "purposeful".
  • Evidence of Consciousness Surviving the Body
    There's a vested interest in materialism ...Quixodian
    Actually, there is far more of a vested – self-flattering – interest in im-materialism (i.e. spiritualism, idealism) than "materialism", as you say, which is much too impersonal and mechanical for any sort of emotional investment, or personal bias.
  • Atheist Cosmology
    Evolution – adaptive variations via natural selection – is not teleological.
  • Atheist Cosmology
    Your "argument" doesn't work, ucarr.

    My third premise says that if a universe has as one of its essential features the inevitability of life, then it has as concomitant essential features intentions and teleology.ucarr
    This leap is unwarranted. Assuming that "life" is an "essential feature" of the universe, on what grounds – factual basis – do you claim Intelligent life (ergo "intention and teleology") is inevitable?

    My first premise says intentions and teleology are essential to all forms of life.
    This anthropomorphic projection renders the premise incoherent at best.
  • Deep Songs
    :smirk: I gave up playing music fairly soon because of jazz (à la Sinatra et al) knowing I'd never be that good. My college buddies and I mostly played songs by The Clash, Simply Red, UB40, The Police, Bob Marley, David Bowie, The Talking Heads and ... I can't remember who else ... always danceable party tunes, usually too fast and out of tune ... I was the "weak link", of course, but it was great fun for a few semesters. :sweat:

    (But at least one of our band "made it" in music as a journalist for Rolling Stone, Spin & The Village Voice – Jem Aswad.)
  • Donald Trump (All General Trump Conversations Here)
    :100: @NOS4A2

    A former, 30 year veteran, Federal Prosecutor reads the latest indictment of Seditionist-Traitor1...


    https://thephilosophyforum.com/discussion/comment/826109
  • Evidence of Consciousness Surviving the Body
    :eyes: :sparkle: :rofl: She was only resuscitated, not resurrected; ergo, no "NDE".

    NB: Gnostic / living-in-a-simulation fairytales are merely variations on the very ancient "dream within a dream" placebo-fetish (aided and abetted by cross-cultural hallucinogenic & entheogenic – or apoxic / anaesthetic – experiences). As the Buddha teaches, it makes no sense – wastes time and effort – to wonder or fixate on where the flame goes when a candle blows/burns-out. Walking the path – living one's life (with courage & dignity as an end in itself) – is the destination, not some ... "afterlife".
  • Umbrella Terms: Unfit For Philosophical Examination?
    My experience of discussing philosophy over the years has been an experience largely consisting of debates centred on umbrella terms.Judaka
    e.g. "Philosophy" ...