One could hope. It amazes me how much energy is put into the social and political black hole that is Trash. We can always delete whatever Trash OPs are started, which will be low quality by definition.

Time to lock this thread on the 20th.

26 pages in and I'm still not sure what "leftist" means. I like the following extremes to develop a spectrum on which we can move, since the left-right distinction has become fudged:

socially conservative vs. socially progressive
collectivist vs. individualist
negative freedom vs. positive freedom
economic marxism vs. laissez-faire corporatist capitalism
redisitributive justice (eg. fairness) vs. formal justice (eg. if rules are followed outcomes are always just)
minarchism vs. authoritarianism

You're wilfully blind to the obvious if stockpiling ammo and repeatedly threatening people don't constitute a credible threat.

Both sides are the problem, said the guy who paints people he disagrees with as pawns and pretending he isn't one himself. So we have non-pawns and pawns, and within pawns there's whatever you're alluding to on two opposing sides as well. Yawn.

You mean the guy that repeatedly urged on violence at his rallies is denouncing violence? Sure. When's he's explicitly called out on it he of course denies it.



That's 2016 already. "In the good old days this doesn't happen because they used to treat them very, very rough. ... We've become weak."

6 January 2021: "And after this, we're going to walk down there, and I'll be there with you, we're going to walk down ... to the Capitol and we are going to cheer on our brave senators and congressmen and women, and we're probably not going to be cheering so much for some of them. Because you'll never take back our country with weakness. You have to show strength and you have to be strong."



Yeah. Nothing to see here. :roll:

EDIT: add "trial by combat" and we're done. It's not as if Rudy, as Trump's lawyer and representing his views up there, is to be seen separate from Trump all of a sudden. The guy had his tongue up Trump's ass for years.

And then you launch right into some unfounded conspiracy theory it was a leftist and take him not being there on the 6th as evidence that his stockpiling of weapons and ammo are not proof of intent to start shooting people. Why does he need 1,000 hollow point bullets?

My experience is that not many people around here will admit they're wrong about something and there are incredibly few posts with an actual question in them. Usually it's just someone sharing their opinion and sticking to it no matter what.

It's how we learned to write but it makes for poor discussions. And I'm guilty as charged probably 90% of the time.

Years ago I had a post on racism on the old forum, trying to understand what the issue was with Dutch Black Pete. I got it was racist but I just couldn't understand why there was a focus on it while we had racist politicians that could be taken to task. One of my favourite moments was that click of understanding I got thanks to a post from @unenlightened about his wife's everyday life and golliwog dolls. Those moments are few and far between.

Nowadays I just seem to be arguing to offset nutty ideas.

I've never rage quitted in my life. It's tough being me and not able to relate to other people.

Until, or unless you can show that there were credible threats emerging from Parler, I don't see any reason to shut it down. I think it unlikely, credible threats would be discussed on an internet notice board, and this is just people - either testing the limits of free speech, or blowing off steam. If there were credible threats, where are the arrests of these potential terrorists? No, this is closing down right wing spaces - in accord with the left wing, politically correct, cancel culture playbook. — counterpunch

You think it unlikely and yet it appears to have happened.

https://beta.documentcloud.org/documents/20454504-eduard-florea-case

We'll probably see more of it over time now that Parler is working with the FBI to provide information on its users. It isn't known if people, who have been arrested through other methods of identification, have been users of Parler and what they posted there. Investigations take time, which answers your "where are the arrests? "; they're under way and not necessarily being identified through Parler data.

The idea that these people are just innocently testing the limits of free speech or blowing off steam is a curious interpretation of calling for assassinations and violence.

This is blowing off steam:

Jesus Fucking Christ I can't FUCKING UNDERSTAND why people can be so fucking dumb and stupid. All politicians should go to hell and fuck of and die.

This isn't:

On January xxx we need to start systematicly assasinating #liberal leaders, liberal activists, #blm leaders and supporters, members of #nba #nfl #mlb # mainstreammedia anchors and correspondents. I already have a news worthy event planned.

The fact you can't or won't tell the difference worries me.

That genie is out of the bottle, I'm afraid. And one does not (and should not) preclude the other. I do like playing scrabble with my mom on the phone and easily chatting with my dad via Signal and share news, ideas etc. Group chats are usually totally useless though.

I notice among my age peers (40+) that they're trying to downsize on all the social networks, phone time etc. anyway. I suspect for kids growing up with this the novelty will wear off even sooner.

It's funny how all these god-fearing people want to go back to that golden age of civility and harmony and yet they're talking about killing politicians, protesters and journalists for not much else than having a different opinion.

And not everyone at the Capitol was rioting. The fact that people can make these distinctions for one side and not the other is just more evidence of the propaganda bubbles that they live in.

But then, the Boston Tea Party was branded a riot at the time - the American and French revolutions began with riots. One man's terrorist is another man's martyr. This is the subjective nature of ethics/politics. This is why we need more level heads, that aren't emotionally invested in their assertions, and aren't trying to speak for others that they don't know, to have a reasonable discussion.

A simple solution would be to abolish political parties. That would ease the division between us, but division is what the Dems and Reps need to stay viable. So it is no surprise that they are the ones stoking that division and then people like KK, Banno and Michael are just a few of the pawns in their game. A truly woke person is one that realizes they've been a pawn and refuses to be one any longer. — Harry Hindu

There can be different interpretation of facts but when people believe lies despite the availability of facts to the contrary there is no subjective nature to discuss.

That said, assertions how other people are pawns is being emotionally invested in your own assertions as well. So by pretending you're above it all, you just demonstrate you're completely in the same game as those you tell yourselves it's ok to ignore.

Scroll up, (or even move back a page in the meantime), check the post by jorndoe I referenced and let me know whether having a platform enabling that sort of stuff should stay up.

Or if we put it in the indivualistic, capitalist terms of freedom of choice, if I run Amazon and I disagree with those views, why should I continue to provide services to it?

The laissez-faire capitalist, unlimited freedom of speech right wingers can't have it both. If we can vote and speak with our dollars and if that means you can't talk about assassinations anymore, you haven't been censored because you can start your own hosting company, own chat program etc. etc.

But that way lies the total disintegration of society.

I sincerely believe that to burst those echo bubbles, the only way forward is to demand interoperabililty between all messenger apps and social networks. Enforce a standard communication protocol so that if I post something on twitter it can be picked up and shared everywhere directly - so someone using facebook can directly subscribe to my Twitter feed and have it show up there. And then prohibit all the targeted ads, news and videos so that whatever is just trending on every social network taken together is visible and not that the only shit you get shovelled looks like the shit you looked at 5 seconds ago.

What I did or didn't do is irrelevant to the questions I posed to you, which you still haven't answered. Try again: Do you think that's PC gone wild? Do we really need to give people promoting violence the ability to reach thousands of likeminded idiots?

Yes, which makes it all the stranger why NOS4A2 comes up with a race issue from 1994. I have some theories why that is but can't be bothered to figure out which is which.

Hanover is a decent Republican and I would think that 4/5th of those that voted for Trump would've preferred a more decent Republican candidate but couldn't live with voting for Democrats and whatever socialist scare they perceive there.

Maybe finish the point you were trying to make then with your earlier question because the only interpretation I could give it was "BLM did it too therefore nutjobs on Parler should be allowed as well". That would cleary be a fallacy but enlighten me what the point of your diversionary question was.

Which brings me back to this: In that respect you still haven't answered my questions. And you think that's PC gone wild? Because we really need to give people promoting violence the ability to reach thousands of likeminded idiots?

That questions seems to suggest a tu quo que fallacy so try again.

Yes, those companies are capitalist - but it can hardly have escaped your notice that there's a pandemic of political correctness going around - infecting the West, and killing our fundamental values, not least free speech. What you may not know is that the disease originates with the left. It's a left wing plague - caught by capitalist companies. — counterpunch

I remind you once again what sort of things were discussed at Parler, which includes discussions to assasinate politicians, protesters and journalists and threats to violently disrupt the inauguration of Biden. https://thephilosophyforum.com/discussion/comment/488033

And you think that's PC gone wild? Because we really need to give people promoting violence the ability to reach thousands of likeminded idiots?

We like transparancy and are open to criticism. Or at least we like to pretend we are with regard to the latter.

Anyway, there is one member here who was banned for doing something that very well seemed similar, but was allowed to return to the forum (which I completely feel was the right decision). If suicide by mod was in fact his intent, maybe he could provide some insight. I’m sure you’re aware of who I’m referring to, but maybe that’s a conversation that is better suited for PM, as he may not appreciate being called out publicly and asked to explain his personal actions. — Pinprick

It wasn't suicide by mod but a stupid mistake (you can read up in the Bannings thread). It was a combination of an apology, the assurances after the ban it wouldn't happen again and his otherwise good posting history that led to an unban. Suicidees by mod tend to not want to get back to the forum. ;-)

this is why I join a philosophy forum, you can read all the books and I'll see the acquired wisdom seep through into your posts. Meanwhile I started book 3 of the Stormlight Archive, Oathbringer.

as usual you're acting like an idiot. She has explained in 1994 in another letter she doesn't believe in the theory but that it should have the same attention as the Bell Curve got. She wasn't espousing it, she was demonstrating a point about a book that was being taken seriously at that time that shouldn't. So since you have no evidence of her holding these views or arguing in favour of them and there is direct evidence what she did mean from her own hand at the end of 1994 you have no point.

Yes. One fraud does not make a stolen election. Some fraud is to be expected when 150 million people vote. Nice confirmation bias.

I would find that problematic, except that it's apparent from the letters she wrote that she did not hold those beliefs.

https://www.thecrimson.com/article/1994/10/28/blacks-seek-an-end-to-abuse/

The juxtaposition as a reaction to those defending the Bell Curve seems rather obvious to me. Racist theories about white superiority can be discussed but racial theories about black superiority are a no go? It's that context in which the letter was written. The whole drama and various reactions and explanations that she doesn't necessarily believe in the melanine theory can all be found at the Crimson.

But nice gutter journalism there. You once again reinforce my very low opinion of you.

the "it's been so long ago don't let it ruin his career" principle.

If Kavanaugh can rape women during his student years and get a cushy job as a SCOTUS judge, which you defended tooth and nail, how about you apply the same principles here?

I clicked the one you claimed was from the Washington Post, which wasn't.

Theft of voter data is a breach of privacy, if it happened, but is no proof of voter fraud.

Court cases need to be won before they count.

Affidavits are generally worthless as are anonymous claims.

So basically you have nothing.

Meanwhile, your conspiracy theory requires most media outlets, judges, politicians, election officials, etc. to be in on it.

So, basically you're peddling lies.

I am persuaded that he will both lead and manage, mainly by choosing good and effective people. — tim wood

I commend you, as a self-admitted dinosaur, of being so positive about it where I really see no reason to believe this will be good people. Effective, sure. In protecting special interests and the status quo.

Calling another poster "Jew nigger fucking fag" or something.

people who say hateful things - it says more about them than the people they hate — counterpunch

a lefty twit — counterpunch

:lol:

My personal take is that for Democrats it's probably best if they wouldn't impeach and leave this problem festering and dividing the Republican Party. For the GOP impeachment and conviction would be a godsend.

That's the political calculus. — Benkei

Predictable I suppose. If anything, McConnel is a smart politician with a clear ethical view that the end justifies the means.

I flagged your post because it contains clickbait.

Then I'm still at a loss what you think he did.

Yes, let's pretend that was the sequence of events shall we? You called me several names before that in different threads and in exasperation that was my last comment.

Yes that is my view but I think it's sufficient to just say what other people think in a manner that resonates with them - that does not so much require principles as being able to regurgitate what you hear on the television. Most of our opinions are derived from our surroundings, usually not based on principles or thought of in depth. Trump is a master at how he delivers that - not just anybody can do that. I just can't see any other quality that I'd describe as intelligence, emotional or otherwise.

:rofl: This is a bit silly coming from one of the few posters who has resorted to name calling towards me without provocation regularly.

I have no clue why you think principles are necessary. Can you explain?

Dreaming of me then. Cute.