Yes, it really is. You should take a leaf out of my book. — S

Haha, me me me. Me too!

I try to avoid making those kind of generalisations about the elderly, the youthful, men, women, gay people, black people... — S

Good for you. :blush:

Sorry, but what's your point here beyond expressing your biased admiration of the elderly? Is there one? Or is that it? If it's that we should follow suit, then no. I decline. — S

Well, I don't see how you can be pejorative towards the elderly. Maybe it's true that not all old people are mature, so I guess you can be happy in some strange sense about that.

Example of being biased towards the elderly or what?

That you're biased in favour of the elderly due to a stereotype. — S

See my comment here: https://thephilosophyforum.com/discussion/comment/264268

Think about the fact that not all grandmothers fit the stereotype of a kind and mothering old lady. — S

Oh, OK. What's your point?

Respect should be given when it is deserved, irrespective of age. — S

Same question.

I have a lot of respect for the elderly. It doesn't phase me if the person came from the upper echelons of society or even how they got so old. Every elderly person has some wisdom to share in my humble opinion.

What makes them all meaningful? — creativesoul

Use, friction and all that other Witty jazz you've heard up to your ears about?

Yes, the donkey could have cared less.

Sorry. Wrong number.

What text are you reading?

Existing account and the rest of the information you requested?

I believe that it can be done through reason and rationality. To ascertain the validity of beliefs as they present themselves uninhibitedly.

Yes, we must reality test the truth aptness of our beliefs as the way we are.

Well, we must be responsible for our beliefs too, no?

No other way, I see.

You mean you've never heard of confirmation bias?

Not really related to maturity; but, illustrative that a socioeconomic conception of a "class" upon which the concept of "maturity" or "respect" or "prestigiousness" is endowed, can be easily fooled by an idiot or con man or even gardener.

There's an apt for that.

It must be that I expressed myself inadequately.

What I mean is that it isn't just the elderly that are given minimal respect. Respect is conditional on having ample resources, because on one level, cash is what we respect. Nobody is going around disrespecting Michael Bloomberg, Warren Buffett, or Bill Gates--all three more or less elderly.

"On one level" because on other levels people use different standards. For instance, we may respect people on the basis of education, verbal facility, good looks (even in old age), and so on.

We all want respect, one way or another. — Bitter Crank

On the whole of it, I don't think it boils down to class. See the movie, Being There for example.

That’s true. As someone on disability, I can attest to a general deficit of respect thrown my way. I’m sure Wallows knows about this. Then again, I don’t think it would matter much even if I were gainfully employed. Like you said, disrespect is pandemic in our society. — Noah Te Stroete

Ehh, Wallows just feels old already. As if one were to give a fixed income living, house, and caring mother is enough for this bloke.

I am not sure they do. If you look at our various social problems--very inadequate housing for the poor, deteriorating schools, an underclass, environmental neglect (and abuse), food-borne illness (because food has too much fat, sugar, and non-nutritious additives in it) and so forth, it would appear that disrespect and low regard is an equal-opportunity problem. — Bitter Crank

How so? I'm not apt enough to see the merit to that conclusion.

Quite so.

No. Philosophies have a “feeling” to them. Some lean Athenian. Some lean Spartan. Kind of like your choice of masculine vs. feminine. — Noah Te Stroete

Well, I don't think it's a strictly either or situation. Maturity can manifest in wisdom, which is timeless and surpasses 'feelings' or intuitions.

Yeah; but doesn't the state of being "mature", surpass or transcend those superficial divisions?

Yes, quite true. I have had my reservations about CBT as a reflexive "band-aid" that can be applied at the symptoms of an issue; but, never really the cause of the source of discomfort or some such.

However, this all hinges on how much you think reason can be a guiding force in shaping one's state of mind. CBT, REBT, and ancient Stoicism contested contra Hume, that reason has a more dominant role in shaping one's mindset and not as a passive feature of humanity.

I picked up on that, too. Makes me suspect he’s a Fox News watcher. — Noah Te Stroete

That's irrelevant, but his point is still valid. If you want to go way back then you could even call it a Spartan mindset.

I'm not sure I understand the distinction you are making between men and women. I think the reasons apply to both. — T Clark

Well, women are known in the field of ethics for their sense of care and compassion that is a somewhat inherent feature of women rather than men. I am only contesting your stipulated definition that seems to be guided by some masculine guiding principle or force.

Old people tend to be weak and vulnerable. It makes people uncomfortable to be around people like that because it reminds them of their own weakness and vulnerability. — T Clark

Yes; but, it is assumed that women never retire, only males do due to the above. Hence, isn't your comment distorted by male masculinity or it being diminished with age, to some extent?

Well, getting one with the authentic self (whatever that means in the end). The idea of not identifying with one of the roles we play in our society, but actually becoming that which is our own potential. Again, Gestalt and some Jungian ideas can be incorporated here. — Kaz

What do you mean by "authentic self"? I find this concept interesting.

A buddhist’s life looks like not much of a life at all to me. — I like sushi

Yes, there is a disposition to view the Buddhist's life as restricted and self-deprivation; but, I don't necessarily feel as though this is true.

One issue that has cropped up for me in regards to Buddhism in the West, is trying to reconcile the Western obsession with growth, economics, and consumption with Buddhism. I haven't found a way to resolve the discrepancy, and the only way to do so would be to move to a monastery or to India or Nepal.

What, now? Not sure what this means. — Anthony

I mean to imply that since there is no way to reason with depressive ruminations or anxious neurosis, then one must wait for the storm to pass and clean up and salvage what can be salvaged after the storm.

I've given up on passion as a meaningful source of anything good or that will advance you wholistically. Passionate people are usually impulsive, compulsive, and infantile, myself included when I used to get passionate. Now the concept of least effort has replaced passion. Wu-wei is a much healthier and more intelligent substrate of psychological health and integration than passion. I'd recommend giving up passion and do all that is done in the spirit of Wu-wei (least effort). — Anthony

Interesting. What is this Wu-wei, thing?

What kind of behaviour is rational to you then? Or rather, what kind of lifestyle. — Kaz

Perhaps one as close as possible to a Buddhist one, what do you think about it?

Then is it still rational, to act in a way that's based on a distorted view of reality? — Kaz

Well, if one were to actually believe in the notion that gratifying wants and needs would produce lasting happiness, then I suppose that would be a rationale, though not rational...

I say that it's not rational because it's an endless marathon run that is the attainment of happiness, and is most likely not a result of direct behavior; but, rather indirectly.

Well, why is having fun the right rational point? What if it's done on a whim while one is rich? — Kaz

Well, there is a typical tendency to place a great deal of emphasis on the gratification of wants and needs as resulting in happiness. This is a distorted view, which I don't believe in at least, though.

If only I could read 1/10'th of what StreetlightX does, ho hum...

My therapeutic examples would be Camus' Myth of Sisyphus and Sartre's short stories. — Kaz

Ah, both comforting stories to the mind. Yet, strangely comforting in their fatalism.

Best for what? Could you give an example of rational vs. emotional? — Kaz

Going to Las Vegas to have fun might be a good example. If one were relatively poor, then what's the point?

I do use some of the philosophy for therapeutic purposes, but for the life of me, I cannot get into Stoics. — Kaz

How about Wittgenstein, or Schopenhauer?

Well, in the example of the brother, the rational calculation could have preceded the acting in an emotional state. I get tangled here, though. — Kaz

Yes, it is puzzling. I suggest the best option is to always listen to what is rational?

Maybe. The circumstances don't have to be ideal, but there are elements that can contribute to deviating person from that equilibrium, such as modern obsession with jobs and careers, approaches to relationships, and health related issues. — Kaz

Plato would have called it an ailment of the mind and society that produces such disharmonious states of affairs. Marcus Aurelius was very concerned with treating philosophy as an act of self-therapy. Even if we boil down the issue to devising a calculus of utility, the goal should be the reduction of the least common denominator to maximize benefits. Such, as limiting the scope and range of one's desire and passion.

Maybe it is, maybe it is not. However, if it is preferable for me to be emotional and it brings benefits to both me and my brother, it is reasonable for me to be emotional. — Kaz

I contest that it is never rational to act on emotions in an uninhibited and without reflexivity.

One could think about options all day long, but without an emotional value placed, you would go nowhere. — Noah Te Stroete

Isn't that "philosophy" in a nutshell? Hehe?

As far as I'm aware the Prefrontal cortex is responsible for inhibition of emotions and stimulus control.

As someone interested in a lifelong goal of mastering the art of reasoning and impulse control, I tend to place a great deal of interest in my PFC, rather than the wild and rambunctious limbic system.

True. What do you think about "emotional reasoning"? I'm trying to disambiguate this concept here.