we have to assume that ethical acts and behavior are genuine. — Alkis Piskas

:up: :fire:

God is merely a concept, concepts are central to philosophy, and to simply prove a concept it must accurately reflect what it represents in reality — introbert

You are right. But you have to keep in mind that for theists God already exists. I mean, they are not opened to debate about the existence or meaning of such concept.

A lot of billionaires make donations here and there with the only purpose to obtain tax reductions or pretend to care. — Alkis Piskas

Good point and here is what some authors pretend to explain towards intentionality.
Donations itself sounds to be a good act of solidarity, right? Well... sometimes it hides bad faith in such actions as avoiding the pay of taxes as you explained very well.
So, if I make a donation not for helping homeless children but to avoid taxes it is clear that my intentions are bad or at least selfish. But if instead of donating money I build a school I guess my intentions are different and then it is more clear that I pretend to help others.

I was pretending to answer with a "no" to your question. But the following paper surprised me indeed:

However, maybe we have to look if such a thing as "quantitative ethics" actually exists.
For example, visiting https://ethics.utoronto.ca/quantitative-ethics/ (from the Centre for Ethics, University of Toronto), one reads:

I never realised quantitative would be important towards ethics. The last year I read two books: After Virtue by Alistair McIntyre and Moral Reasoning, by Victor Grassian. Well, according to these authors what is really important inside ethics is intentionality. They share a lot of moral dilemmas explaining that the real virtue is how is your intentions to resolve such philosophical problems.
I have always been agreed with this thought until you raised some crucial questions in this thread.

Nevertheless, I think is important to check each context or situation. In my humble opinion is more ethical to give the money to a homeless rather than a foundation because I see this intention as more personal than the latter.

E.g. the Democritean void (à la vacuum energy).

:clap: :100:

If a God ever did reveal himself/herself to humanity, the revelation would: — Art48

Nothingness. If he would exist I would imagine him as the pure representation of silence and emptiness. As much as we tend to understand death.

Philosophy is the junkyard of the sciences. — Some dude/gal

It was so painful to read... that dude or gal is ignorant as hell.

its a surefire way to get yourself killed. — Agent Smith

... Aren't we all end dying anyway?

No, it is not contradiction and I am fully respect your enthusiasm for trying to make this life less suffered. But I just can't see good reasons to change the issue. I think all of those are illusions of what we would dream about how the world and life should look like.
But these are just dreams... because when you wake up you realize life is painful and we are surrounded with a severe sense of uncertainty.

I disagree. They are exactly the same thing and we are condemned to suffer during the transition of our lives. Sorry to be pessimistic but either I do not know how to make life "suck less" neither I see good causes around us. It is literally the opposite. We no longer have good reasons to believe that the world would become a better place in the future.

If try to calculate how many days life sucks and doesn't, I bet that we would have more days of life sucking. Most of the days of our lives are even normal or ordinaries. I think we can label happy days as "extraordinary" and I even feel this is the common thought. The pure joy, beautiful experiences, laughing, etc... only happens in a while...

I like the Kierkegaard's thought about absurdity or reductionism. But on the other hand, I personally think that suffering is not absurd at all. We are so brave to keep living in this life full of uncertainty and subterfuges. I would call this state of mind as perseverance rather than absurd.

After all, if the world is absurd, and everything we do is absurd anyway [...] — Kierkegaard

No reason why we can’t have a new bill of rights tomorrow — except for the above. — Xtrix

Because most of the citizens (future voters) do not understand the issue or do not care at all. As you said in one of the paragraphs the politicians tend to brainwashed to defend their own position. It is very difficult to fix something which is so broken.
It is true, the political structure is so complex that I don't even know how really works. But what I really feel is the fact of how far away is from the citizens

That is not because life sucks but being old and having family issues can suck. — Athena

:up: :100: Fantastic! You understand me! We have common opinions!

His reasoning was nuanced. If someone "willed" their own death, then even ones own death was an act of "will".. Thus, suicide of the body isn't getting rid of will. Rather, ascetic denial of will does. [...] — schopenhauer1

Good quotes from Schopenhauer, indeed. But I want to add to his arguments some brief comments: we can also see suicide as an aesthetic act of purity. The individual can commit it justifying such act with the aim of preventing dishonour or being sorry to all of those we owned respect and condolences. I think is one of the main acts to show the purest respect you have both to yourself and others. Committing suicide with this purpose can allow to get some "redemption"

The Japanese have always been a people with a severe awareness of death. But the Japanese concept of death is pure and clear, and in that sense it is different from death as something disgusting and terrible as it is perceived by Westerners. — Yukio Mishima.

But we can also see it as an act of liberation from community or society. When there are a lot of issues we tend to protest, right? Well there were a lot of unknown heroes or "seppukunin" who committed suicide in a symbol of protest. For example:

His name was Kozaburo Eto. This young student killed himself on february 11th, exactly the Constitution’s day. He did it lonely in the darkness of his job staying apart from television or looks. It was a solemn and respectful act. This was the main critical action against politics I ever seen in my life. — Yukio Mishima, the way of samurai, pages 81 and 82.

bushido/samurai based loyalty/devotion to act like a ninja / an assassin — universeness

First of all, you are confusing terms: "Bushido" is a way of living. Samurai is how we called the "warriors" in Western world. Ninja is private assassin.

If you don't comply then your sensei will get his/her other loyal followers to kill you and all your family. Have such situations ever arose in past history that you have heard of? — universeness

Yes, I am aware of these scenarios. My sensei would not have a problem in my quality of loyalty because I will never cheat on him. But I understand that if he starts not believing in me he wants to kill me. Rather dead than disrespect my sensei.

Do you think the loyalty shown by the Japanese people towards Hirohito was of great benefit to them? Did it result in the development of a fair and progressive Japanese society? — universeness

Hirohito was a very important emperor to Japan:
After WWII Japan became the second largest economy of the world.
Japan is one of the most important industrial countries nowadays.
Their culture and values are respected around the globe.
They demonstrate that with effort and patience you can achieve whatever they want. They recovered from a Nuclear attack and Fukushima accident. Amazing.
Hirohito was also a member of Nations Council which today is United Nations.

Well I don't go off topic but there are a lot of reasons of why Hirohito was important and why Japan is one of the top nations in the world. Their Bushido philosophy is what I have missed in my useless and poor country.

BANZAI.

How would you ensure your loyalty is deserved by those individuals you are loyal to? — universeness

It is deserved if they help me to become a better person. If they respect me. If they do not b*tch against me, etc... I mean all the basic characteristics from a loyal person, right? Sadly, we already lost the classical relationship about "master-student" or "sensei-gakusei" where there was a good loyalty among them because everything starts thanks to wisdom and this virtue necessarily needs to be taught by someone: thus sensei.

Yeah. They suicide as a punishment (?) But I see it as a honourable act to not disappoint people and finish the average pain the life tends to give us.

Bushido is not a way of being that I would ever recommend as it is (imo) based on blind obedience to the dictates of 'leaders — universeness

No. Bushido is not a way based on blind obedience but loyalty. This is why I recommend more than ever they way of a samurai. We completely lost the basic sense of respect and honour. If we keep forgetting these antique doctrines we would end up in a pit full of corruption and liars.
Wait a minute... we are already sat in that pit.

there was another referendum carried out in Greece, in 2015, to decide whether Greece should accept the bailout conditions in the country's government-debt crisis proposed jointly by the European Commission. Well, 61% of the Greeks voted against. Yet, nothing changed ... The bailout conditions were accepted nevertheless!! So, this proved to be a useless referendum! — Alkis Piskas

Well, at least you voted against something. Here our governors just applied whatever the European Commision said regarding debt crisis. This context is quite similar to Covid issues and "next generation funds". Yes, it is true we are receiving a large quantity of money but this only means that the EU lobbies would have more power in my country and would erode our sovereignty.
The European Commission and European Central Bank play with us like puppets. But it is true that I perceive they tend to be "germanic" I mean, they promulgate laws so called "Directives" rooting in favour of German interests.

On the other hand, check Denmark and Ireland. Also Non-EU Issues for Latvia, Lithuania and Sweden. all northern countries! — Alkis Piskas

Yes, they have more custom on make a lot of referendums in whatever topics or issues. Nordics are known for being true representative democracies. It surprises me Ireland. I never expected they pose a big number of referendums. Well I guess it could be related to historical issues. They got the independence thanks to a referendum.

Your life can suck even if you study and learn "harder" than others. This state of mind is very complex. I don't agree that to "un-suck" your life you need to be in continuous movement or doing "something"
Believe it or not one can decides if his life is worthy or not. I think it depends on volition.

Government keeps people divided.
If the people were united, we could protect each other — Yohan

Exactly. This is how I want a society. Instead of living in a state we can try to achieve a community where we share goods and act with responsibility.

I still think people in positions of power should be beyond the need for frivolous fun. It's not even about "being responsible"; it's about being so capable, so smart, so superior to the masses that one doesn't need the cheap emotional outlets that the masses do. — baker

Completely agreed :up:

This gave rise to a proverb: "Caesar's wife must be above suspicion"
I still maintain my original thoughts about this issue. I think we the citizens should expect more from a PM, even when we are living a difficult time in this period of war crisis and gas prices. You cannot have most of the people wondering what would happen in winter while she is partying as a teenager.
When I saw her dancing like that I thought she was not responsible enough to be a public representative. But this opinion leads me to be called sexist. Because the people who defend her maintain the idea that she is young and she is free to have fun because we are living in a “modern era”

Politics ought be about the common wealth. When it is about the wealth of this or that group, we are doing it wrong. — Banno

:up: :100:

Good quote of Chomsky :up:

You are just surviving, not living. Stay strong!

Dirty dancing with the Prime Minister 23% — Hanover

They covered it up :lol: probably the percentage is even higher :eyes:

We'll need to dig up stats on what 36 yr old (Finnish) women do. — Agent Smith

I think @ssu can help us in this topic. Anyway, this is what I found in a quick search in Google: WHAT DO PEOPLE IN FINLAND DO IN THEIR FREE TIME?

These are the statistics of what adult Finnish people do in free time:

• Reading books 56%
• Walking 49%
• Exercising in nature 48%
• Travelling abroad 36%
• Solving crosswords/sudoku 32%
• Travelling within Finland 31%
• Spending time at summer cottages 28%
• Self-access learning 27%
• Cooking as a hobby 25%
• Gardening 24%

Congrats to Danes and Swedes who escaped the euro trap! — Alkis Piskas

Agreed. I am jealous of Nordics. They have a very profitable monetary system. They do not depend on euro and their currency is good. I think the UK has always been clever in this context. They kept the Pound even when they were part of the European Union.

What does the average 36 year old (Finnish) woman do after sunset? — Agent Smith

Stay at home... I guess.

who've been hauling her over the coals forget that she's a 36 year old woman — Agent Smith

Are you insinuating she is still young to act as a drunk teenager? Despite the important fact that she is the PM I don't see her as "little girl"

This is what I can call "Democracy". People deciding on important matters of their country. — Alkis Piskas

Yes, completely agree. Democracy really works when the citizens are allowed to take part in important decisions.

I don't know what the consequences were for you of the transition from pesetas to euros. For us, they were quite bad. For a very long time, people could not realize the value of one euro and think in terms of the new currency because the old currency, drachma, equaled 1/340 = 0.003 euros! But I guess the same happened to other countries with a similar old-currency-to-euro rate. — Alkis Piskas

The consequences are pretty bad too. Here happened similar because 1 € equals to 166.6 pesetas. So yes the people got confused at the beginning.
To be honest I personally think that in economical affairs only Germany really got a big win inside eurosystem. We are different nations and we see the economy in different ways. For example your country and mine tend to depend a lot on tourism and food products. But Germany is pure industry so does wins a lot of benefits in the modern era. The Euro is made just for those countries not the Mediterranean fellas

Yes, you are right and I see your point. But I was referring to the type of language implemented. If you check logic premises they tend to be pretty hard to follow. This is why I wonder if it is more difficult to me to reach "truth" because I can't follow the logic rules.

It is not clear at all because the language used in logic is very complex. I can explain it to myself but how can I know that I am not wrong? This is why I don't tend to take part in threads about logic. The Language used like

p≡q is by definition (p⊃q)&(q⊃p)

Is difficult to follow and understand if you do not have basic skills inside logic.

I don't know however if that helps and how much. For us it helped a lot! — Alkis Piskas

Yes, at least the Royal family achieve stability. No more civil wars because the king the chief of the Army. There are some sectors of society who are not happy to live in a monarchy. But they are not big enough.

The last referendum we had in Greece was in 1974, about keeping or abolishing the Royal Regime!! And, as a really stupid, low-IQ country, we selected the second option! — Alkis Piskas

Yes, same. Our last referendum was in 1978 when the Spaniards voted for "democracy" but we never had the opportunity to vote about joining NATO or European monetary system. I even think that our national chambers do not matter at all because the European Commission and the European Central Bank have a lot of power in our domestic issues.
Well, it is a complex world and our nations clearly lost sovereignty when they joined European Union.

Government jobs: Make yourself rich by any and all means available, legal and illegal. While you're at it ,,, can you also please build hospitals, schools, roads, etc

I couldn't have explained it better... That's how politicians work and interact with the citizenship.

I don't know what country do you live in, but in Greece, where I live, the quality-of-life of the citizens is the last thing our politicians think these days.

I know how you feel Mediterranean brother. Here in Spain we live exactly the same situation.

I only see politics as a complex ownership. Most of the people who reach powerful positions - such as a ministry - are there for private issues and affairs. I am laughing right now because the PM of my country just approved five laws and he said: more laws for the majority!... Jesus. I want to ask him what is the "majority" according to his reality.

Excellent choice! Enjoy it friend! :up: :ok:

What if someone's purpose is to (suffer &) die à la Jesus of Nazareth? — Agent Smith

I even think suffering is inherent to us. It is not a "purpose" but a state of mind or at least an important chain of the human evolution and progress.

Religion is imagination without verification. — Yohan

:up: :clap: I couldn't have said it better.

"Electric-blue" aurora on Jupiter!

Jupiter's auroras look radiant in new James Webb Space Telescope images