I don't know what version Javi was using: — T Clark

I was using a Spanish version from Luis Racionero. I tried to translate it in the most accurate English possible. Nevertheless, I’m going to type the verses in Spanish just if you want to translate it.

Cuando reina el Principio (al ser perfecta la paz), los caballos de guerra trabajan en el campo
Cuando se olvida el Principio (al estar en guerra la orden del día), se crían caballos de batalla hasta en los arrabales de las ciudades

Because our educational system is flawed. They do not teach us how to get happiness and self-confidence. It looks like we are forced to live with others. I guess it is just a trap. We can work hand by hand but there are a lot of people who actually wants to have kids because their lives are somehow empty.
Having kinds nowadays is quite selfish

(a great American tragedy). — synthesis

Good novel. I remember read it in a big book called “grandes maestros americanos” (Great American Masters)

Antinatalism. One less kid born is one less dependent. Peace. — schopenhauer1

Yes. This is the principle which the future should hold. Less natality less problems. Less humans less conflicts in the world. Scientists say my country will lost 10 million citizens in the next decades because the lack of natality. What a good notice.

However, many people do believe in the existence of beings without physical bodies.

I believe in this criteria but I guess we do not have developed our science to discover it yet. So it is free to interpretation and I think it is interesting debating about it.

I think Xi Jinping is failing in some points because he is showing how evident China wants to control the world. Check out how they are already working in Africa or Latinoamerica. Also the amazing fact of how they ended up in Mars. So they are powerful but now is so evident and people is getting angry because of them. Another example could be covid-19. Everything of this chaos started in China but now they are quite again while the rest is suffering. Imagine trying to make a movement against China... I guess nobody actually can't. But this, somehow is making the people starts hating or rejecting them when it is literally impossible.
Back in the day we did not know so much about China and their issues. Somehow they were covert. Now we can know everything about them and the Hong Kong political conflict. I guess being in the target so much can affect negatively in the long run but we don't know because China is always making clever moments.
Yes, sadly for Russians, perestroika was a big fail. Nevertheless it is interesting how always they avoid "European market" or the Euro itself. They don't want be part of it. This shows how powerful Russia is despite the fall of socialism/communism in 1991. It is country we still have to consider as very important in the rule of the world.

Chinese banged their head on the wall enough to understand that the ideologically pure Marxism-Leninism simply didn't work. How dare they!

@ssu

True. Very important point. Deng Xiaoping was clever making this statement. I guess this is way China started creating a powerful method to be in the rule of the world. Other communist countries did not make this for example Cambodia or Cuba. They are isolated in a global world so this is why their socialism is failing.
China has a ferreous system. I guess they changed everything about what communism/socialism should looks like in the Marx eyes.

Interesting question. It is complex to explain. I guess it would looks like "air" or atoms just flowing in the sky or cosmos. I admit this is so intangible. But the interesting fact here is if we would have some kind of awareness. I guess without awareness we can't exist after death or even how or body would look like at all. Cogito ergo sum
This example is important: Some people before death they write in some deeds they would like to be buried in a garden so afterwards a tree is raised there. It is beautiful but at the same time important because it shows the power of our life after the death comes.
Never forget we are afraid of death because we do not know how will be the body at the end. We can only speculate about.
So, in this fact I guess our body will be like some organic atoms flying around.

Immortality could be one of the most painful punishments. We are born to die because we are organic existences which have a cadocous period. I remember this situation in Hermann Hesse "Steppenwolf" where the main character is judged to being immortal and the he considered this is probably the worst thing can happen to you.
Is it possible that after death we have a life? I do not know because is one of the most important question in our era. What happens after you are dead. Here I questioning myself if it is possible have awareness after all has passed away. I mean, if that somehow world or "Cosmos" provide us the feeling or remember our past lives, what we lived or who we are.
Imagine living this life and then for nothing because when you die you can lose awareness and then it looks like living it isn't worthy at all
It is an interesting debate trying to understand what mysterious path is afterwards you have lived.

Isn't it a little extreme to let such a small group try to dictate whether or not a person can denounce all gender? — TiredThinker

Welcome to modern times. The masses control everything now. We are no longer depend in some classic bipartisanship, this is the century where the masses which once were in the street are now in the power taking decision like “non binary” or denouncing all the gender.

I get your point. But it sounds so positivism. I do not deny love because I don’t receive it. I just deny it because is an abstract concept created to explain weird perceptions we have about others in our life context. Call it love or whatever but it could end up being so hurtful or toxic because when you are in love with someone you are not being objective with him/her because you are acting blind because of love...
I don’t understand what is beautiful about this.

Why do Australians accept the authority of the state? — frank

Because is a developed country which believes in the rule of law due to how good the system works.

didn't choose to live a life here. That is something others - my parents - have made me do. — Bartricks

our parents have violated our rights and have voluntarily exposed us to the risks of living. — Bartricks

Determinism (?). Anyways, it depends a lot of how lucky you could be. Nobody chooses to be born. But also not anyone has a risky life. Others born in a wealthy/lovely life, others born in a dangerous place and then they will be in risk the rest of their lives. So I guess you are defending that the fact of not choosing to be born is a duty that our parents have to being punished for us or the state as a punishment.
Ok... but imagine this fatalism. Your kid is dead since the birth. What can happen here? Who is guilty of this situation? Because you are typing that every pregnant woman will have healthy kids, etc... but the reality is hardest than this.
So I guess being born in a situation where you actually can talk through a forum is a gift which is worthy to paying for.

how does one live in the face of this knowledge? Is life even worth living in light of this view? — I don't get it

I think is worth living. Life is like a mountain we have to climb. The hardest is the better in this context. Everyone wants to improve whatever is around them. I don’t say it is innate but sometimes it looks like humanity in their nature wants to improve. Having the feeling of not changing to the better could be even counterproductive for our development.
I guess when you say

Things such as air, food, water, shelter, family, friends, praise, affection, acceptance, status, career, land, possesions,

you are somehow wrong. Everything is not related to this tangible things.
The most important thing we want always to improve is our knowledge. Thanks to this, look everything has changed for the decades.

Love is an abstract aspect. Someone live it others don’t. If you are living a feeling related to love congratulations because this is rare to perceive. It looks like a primary perception when you feel it. Everything looks good but love can end up hurting you a lot.
I have not discovered love yet. But I am not searching of it yet because I do not believe in it.

Entonces no tendrás problemas en absoluto.
I guess you will not have any kind of problems.

Un gran saludo a Perú desde Madrid.

but you are making me wonder if that university accepts students who aren't from Spain,

Yes. They accept international students. But if you are from Anglo-Saxon country I guess you have to present some "papers". For example, if you passed high school, the marks, criteria of the quality etc... All that documentation stuff (I was being asked for this stuff back in the day too)
Well you are free to send a message if you want here: infounedatadmdotuneddotes

Also the official page: https://www.uned.es/universidad/inicio.html

Preconceived notions invalidate

We do not have anything preconceived. It all comes from experience and learnings (empiricism)
There is not nothing innate

True they do not have "clases presenciales" because supposedly it is made for someone who is working and wants to study at the same time. I think it is a good criteria to help those who can't go to class

Yes. It is one of the hardest universities in Spain. Their content has a lot of quality related to scientific research so the reputation is good.
My mum did the PhD in Criminal law there and I remember it was full of clever people and the process was very tough.

Why where those two so important if both got it all so wrong? What wre the benefits of their mistakes? I am trying to find a good reason for children to respect those two philosophers

@DeGregePorcus

They are important because Thales and Anaximenes were the first thinkers of our era or occidental thought. Philosophy was born in Greece because they did not have a clear religion so they were dree to debate or think of everything. This base is so important to evolve as a human. They posted the bases of how to develop our human knowledge. It is true that probably their criteria looks like so simple but it is still important. When Thales said the beginning was water or Anaximenes was air they are not wrong at all... We can't life without those. Water and air (oxygen) is important. This is the reason why they started a fundamental theory: Believe in power of knowledge and explain what is around us instead of myths or "God"

Hello! Welcome abroad.

It is interesting meeting a teacher who teaches philosophy to Kids. I guess it is a complex challenge but beautiful. I think the best way of teaching Thales and Anaximenes is through some pictures of what each philosopher established in the Ancient Greece.
For example, if I think about Thales I will show a huge ocean and explain with metaphors or basic words to make understand them why Thales thought water is the beginning
If we are speaking about Anaximenes I will put a picture of an island in the far away. Why? Because that's represents air. The horizon. Distance between us and the unknown. This is why air is so important to us. Also as Anaximenes defended we cannot live without it. So you can put the example of just breathing.

These are random ideas but I guess the point is trying to teach philosophy to Kids through pictures and visual examples.

However, do you think that we have "understood" nature itself? Or just describing nature but not understand it? Why or why not? — The0warrior

We have created the properly tools to describe what is around us. Physics help us to understand the nature and establish principles that supposed to be universals as you said, gravity.
But no, we do not have understand it at all yet. Nature itself is very complex. Probably we have to start with the roots and explain what is going on with Big Bang theory. It appears it is just a theory but involves the born of the earth. So while we cannot prove “specific” about the Big Bang theory we cannot understand the nature itself. We still have some realities which escapes from or view.

Do you agree with the following sentence: "the end of science is theology"? — The0warrior

No. Science is literally a weapon to fight against theology.

The ancient said the incomplete will be completed, the curve will be straightened, the empty will be filled, the used will be renovated. The simplicity makes having success, the multiplicity disturbs.

Verse number 22.

Thoughts: patience and simplicity. Everything has their properly time. We do not have to rum so quickly along the life. Everything will end up filled at the end of the day. If we multiply when we don’t have to our life will be disturbed

I will call it maturity. I understand your point. That period of time where you start accepting or respecting yourself and also the path of life starts having another point of view. Yes, we can call it intuition, because as you said intuition is somehow intelligent.
But... love is not here too. I can’t believe in love but in myself or intuition. I think theses concepts can survive separated from each other.

The Absolute (e.g., The Dao, God) is unknowable, unchangeable, and exists outside of time. It is something you may sense or feel but never something you can know (intellectually). — synthesis

Interesting point. I am atheist and I was raised in home of atheists. For my the absolute (you put as example God) is unknowable but also irrelevant in my way of living. It isn’t something that I never experienced at all neither feel it. I will never know what actually means because I do not put the effort to do it.
I guess you considered this characteristics of the absolute as something we know innately but I am quite disagree in that. This is an example, as you explained previously, of a relative concept of mind.
Probably you are used to have in your vocabulary or living abstract concepts as “God” and it’s omnipresence so this is why you believes it exists outside you. But what is consider as absolute to you, it is so relative for me.

But I'm sad because people die. I will die, and the human species looks really quite likely to die out too, the way things are going."

I'm sad because people die. I will die, but the human species looks really quite likely to survive into the long term future."

Determinism vs scepticism.

Probably I going to sound so fool but methodologies remember me about empiricism or better said extreme empiricism. I guess al philosophers have methods to work on because it is impossible having theories without experiencing some methods previously. So yes, they are so influenced about what they as philosophers have experienced back in the day with their “masters”
I guess they will be along their lives perfecting or maybe criticising what methods they used to being taught. So in this point we can say methodology is like a compass to the youngest thinkers.

Nevertheless, it isn’t impossible to change. Probably some of them will end up changing the methodology one day they learned

Agree with you. China should have more control in the Occidental market. Paying more taxes or whatever or duties to their products. But how can we punish them? It seems so impossible. They are powerful and I think we cannot do anything without their amazing supplying/developing shite like electronics, clothes, accessories, etc... also it is country with zero human rights so many big companies go there to have slaves as “workers” (Apple for example builds their accessories in China...)
They are huge country who cares zero about life and rights. Facing them it is very complex.

It is scaring how slowly China has been climbing to the top of the world’s power during decades.

When the Principle reigns the horses of war are raised in the fields
When the Principle is forgotten, the horses of war are raised even in the slums of the cities

Thoughts: this is one of my favourite quotes from Tao. I guess it is related to peace and order in the cities or villages. If you control the Principle and everything around you is under a composure state the “horses” will not be prepared to fight anyone but just being free in the green fields having a good life.

For one who loves knows many things that the one without does not. — Thinking

What if give love but I don’t receive it back? Sometimes love is overacting. I guess the properly word here is “respect” because this is the truest cordial representation between individuals. Love can be sometimes so toxic

Love is a serious mental disease. Plato

Love is the principle cause of all things in the Universe it is a resource the is infinite to tap into. — Thinking

Personally I disagree. I guess the principle cause of all things is the faith of believing we can change the reality to better.
Love and it’s forms are overrated marketing to be honest...

The Revolt of Masses by José Ortega y Gasset.

Read with attention and meditatively what I said ... — Anand-Haqq

You did not understand what I said ... — Anand-Haqq

The average statements of someone who don’t even understand what is typing in the internet. Just empty ideas.

I'm not sure I'm understanding you correctly here. Who is "they"? — Benkei

I was referring to the State itself and the governors aka all of those who have the power to control the leviathan. I was not disagree with you. I guess it is quite negative saying paying taxes is theft. This action can at least provide us the same opportunities to start with.
But sometimes it looks like literally a theft (the public services are not so good sometimes... but yeah it is better than nothing).
Thank you for your explanation about how worthless the action of printing money could be.
Nevertheless, here is the big problem then. How effective can be the State. As you perfectly asked to me:

what should be the function of the State? — Benkei

Well I don’t want to make a tangent here but it is another kind of debate. Here is the problem itself. The state. It is not the act of paying taxes but how the leviathan administrates the revenue (which it is a lot). It is true that I am not have to be so pessimistic because there are some States that proof how taxes can work positively to the people. For example, the Nordic countries tend to have many taxes but it is completely worthy because they are the representation of social welfare state
But this is not the reality in the most countries of the world. Most of them just give “average” services not good quality ones. Perhaps, in this point depends a lot of how lucky you are in the country you were born in.
Sometimes you can provide all the tools but the State/government/leviathan will not do nothing special at all and only provide inequality.

, if you have not made the mistake of getting too many kids at an early age, and seemingly found a moderate amount of work at your twenties, you can still enjoy the same goods as the plutocrat in some faraway mansion. — Shawn

Agree. This is the main point to light up here. I guess as you explained, that taking advantage of your 20's working or studying will pay off when you get older because you have won time for your own interest so money couldn't be a huge problem. All of those who prefer focus in themselves instead of acting we are still in 1800's having kids at 17 or 20 years old will be more "peaceful" with his own life.
Do he will be happy with less money than a milloniare because it looks like the life is easier for those which works (true probably not all the citizens but the majority)
I guess the important house here is afford a house or an affordable loan to buy to. Because house in of the most important goals in human development. The rest is secondary and you can even buy it too with less money if you are patient and clever

because that would mean people should be paid based on moral worth of their services and their own moral worth or needs. But that's not what's being established in the market. — Benkei

It is not established in the market as you perfectly explained because since Spinoza divided education in enlightenment they teach us how to be "practical" not how to be moral.
The market and somehow "everything" do not care at all if the payer is or not a moralist. They just want his money to provide revenue to the State.

Any of you serfs out there feel as if the central authority in your country treats you as if you hold sway over them? — synthesis

Yes. Of course this is the feeling I have about the central authority of my country. I am somehow like a slave, probably not like someone in the Rome Empire who can be treated as trash but so similar. I have to pay bills, low paid jobs, injustices everywhere, privileges to others... They created a system where they (administrators of leviathan) always win.
But it is quite impossible live in a community without all of this. At least we have a guarantee.
Probably and just probably, one or 10 (no more) can do it this.

I don't see religion as something we need to escape from. If we do need to escape from something, CallMeDirac's way is not the right way. — T Clark

Yes you are right. I was saying that we don't have any escape from any kind of boss. Some can give us just stability (so called the leviathan "democracy") or others can give us destruction.
Also I guess @CallMeDirac was defending a secular education/system avoiding all kind of subterfuges.

I cringe whenever state proponents pretend taxation is the moral and compassionate thing to do, as if paying a tax was akin to taking care of the ill and feeding the poor. — NOS4A2

Yes I cringe too because it is supposed that if we pay taxes we will save other people's lives. Probably it is true thanks to this system at least we give to all the citizens an "opportunity" to start with. But I guess everything do not starts and neither ends just for paying taxes. If the system is screwed the distribution of benefits will be flawed too.

If the government is forced into austerity, usually by its own overspending, the services the population has grown to become dependent on could be lost. — NOS4A2

This is the point where I go totally pessimistic. I don't understand why some people cheers when the State get into debt more than 100 % of their GDP. Like... What's going on here? This method will make us poorer and more dependent from the governors and their laws. At least, I guess, in this situation we will not be so lost because the people nowadays are not ignorant and they understand when the State is not doing their work good or a proper administration.
I guess this is something interspersed. We are lost because... We are so dependent of the State/situation?