I guess you want to explain that there is no doubt that mind/ideas exist, but The complex situation born when we put everything in practice so the theory gets complexity.
If materialism has a prior problem probably could be. Therefore, I guess this depends a lot of how you were raised in the home/country you were born in. Because the ideas or mind are there, yes, but they are so stimulated in our reality. For this reason, I guess this is why we literally see the same reality in different perspectives. Then, I guess this is the problem of materialism.
Which is the significance we can put in materialism and physics through our ideas? Interesting.

The imposition of the Euro is like a stealth European war. — synthesis

It is. Actually it looks like the classic Europeans wars back in the past. Nevertheless, even though the euro system a has its flaws, I think it has a good cooperative principle: free market between European and a solid currency.
Imagine not having the euro and then other currencies could go to a random European country and buy whatever they want with no it’s real value. I guess this is one of the strategies the Europeans thought back in the day.

But, of course, inside the European system there are some problems too. This morning I say a brief episode of a random channel which asked: “why the Mediterranean economies are so inestable?” and the someone replied: because the Euro is prepared just to the north European countries.
What a complex debate.

The global economy is a massive ruse in many ways and although it works on some levels (particularly for governments and corporations) — synthesis

Yes! And in this quote that you mentioned it is interesting how some countries used the secret bank/tax haven policy (this is why I started this debate) just to try being something in this world.
For example, Nauru and Cook Island were in bankruptcy some years ago. They can pick up the tourism card but let’s be honest it will not work in the long run. So they decided put tax haven policies and it looks like “something” has changed. It is true they are far from the average HDI members but it is better than literally nothing. So... are some countries forced to make cheats just to survive? I guess yes.

The entire Euro-system was doomed from the beginning but that's another story! — synthesis

Agree. This can start a different debate lol.

You seem to be describing mechanical faith which is instilled in someone by adapting to society or indoctrination. Expand your example to the question of government. We can have mechanical faith that it will change things for the better. But somehow it never does. — Nikolas

Yes. It is sad but this is what literally happens in most of the issues which come from governance. Somehow I have blind faith on people. No in governors. Governors are just there to plump theirs pockets with a lot of money and disappoint the people.
But I guess we did not lose everything. It is all about of no depending from government (It is impossible I understand). Because we can use internet and knowledge to improve the circumstances. For example, I have a lot of hope on the people who participate in this forum or other related forums. This what makes the difference. Debating without consideration or prejudices in others.

You seem to be describing mechanical faith which is instilled in someone by adapting to society or indoctrination. — Nikolas

Also yes, I tried to explain it in a mechanical way because in my opinion it could have a chain of working. Nevertheless, as you explained this not necessarily works all the time.

I don't have the means to extend this kind of lifestyle for longer than 10 years. — dazed

I wish you can do it. I am younger than you (23 years old) so I do not know what is the feeling of reach 50 but I guess is an important period of time where you clearly see how everything starts "fading away" slowly.
Nevertheless, despite I am young I also had that feeling of "I don't to continue here" because sometimes life itself is so heavy.
But do not get obsessed in this feeling. Life is a continue challenge. Also you have a partner with you that can support in the worst times. This is a gift because I never had a girlfriend/partner so I think meeting some in life is like a treasure.

Look, our lives soon or after will end. Your and mine. But somehow this is positive. We have to reach goals and make efforts to make the people who love us happy and confortable. Also do not being sad for feeling as "load". This also happens. I don't understand why the brain drives us to some painful situations. Probably to make us stronger?

I am Greek — Franz Liszt

Im Spanish and I love your country. Mediterranean friendship.

Will 2023 be an important year between Greece and Turkey? — Franz Liszt

As you explained previously. Yes it will be an important year. But the circumstances have changed a lot. Europe is really different from 1923.
First of all if paradoxically Turkey declare the war against Greece they will be totally lost. Not only Europe Unión supports Greece but all the occidental powers (NATO I guess). So it will be totally lost of time to Turkey and Erdogan.
Secondly, it looks like they really want be part of European Union. Somehow they are always trying to. If somehow they threat Greece nobody will open their arms to Turkey.

About Cyprus. This point is interesting. I remember that this island is not only geographic important but for taxes. I remember Cyprus was a secret bank/tax haven country. So yes I guess European union also wants Cyprus with them.

I mean, they are forced to lost so Erdogan would be crazy if he tries something with Greece.

we agree it's an accepted means of exchange. — Benkei

True. This is why I say it is philosophy of Economics because we accept some monetary patrons instead of others. Because they are powerful. It is not the same having euros/dollars in your bank account than pesos or rupees.
I mean, it is quite interesting how literally a coin has more value than others. But yes I am agree depends in other facts as goods, industry, revenue, etc... That makes the monetary system of this country more powerful than others

How many would pay taxes if there wasn't a punishment for not doing so?

Thus, governments take what they want under threat of violence.

Whether that is ethical I will leave to each to decide for their own. — Tzeentch

This post is very important. Here where my debate started for.
Literally only a few of people would pay their own taxes if laws were not punished them. So I guess this is why it is interesting how we have a dilemma/debate in the modern world.

Is ethical to pay taxes? Well supposedly yes... But sometimes it looks like the government does not take advantage of this. So all the problems is how we are governed in the the country you live in.
As someone previously said the Nordic countries have a lot taxes but it looks like it works so well. They have the so called "welfare state" but somehow only works there

Mechanical faith is what you were taught to believe. Emotional faith is belief based on fear which is why it is considered the blind faith of slavery — Nikolas

Not necessarily. I guess not all faiths drive you to slavery or being slave of your circumstances. When you have some beliefs and then, you believe in something particular (religion, atheism, politics, etc...) doesn’t make you slave because it is not painful to you. You just believe and do the best to pursuit happiness or whatever situation that is worthy is society. It is all about how we evaluate it.
But I guess the blind faith is not a negative aspect. Sometimes it can lead you to change something.
In our progress as a human we need: faith, beliefs and believe in.

For example: I have the faith we can distribute natural resources differently. We have beliefs on it. Then, we believe in the change and take some actions.

I want to follow you but it is quite complex when it is hard to me understanding principles of economics. Nevertheless, thanks for your statements and arguments to make me have more knowledge.
Here is interesting how you explained to me what was the path of the US dollar after the WWII ended.

Primarily, all other currencies would be valued against the USD as they were towards gold previously. — synthesis

. This makes a country so much powerful. Having a currency that is so valuable around the world makes the difference.
But I guess (If I finally get your points) one of the most difficult goals is facing the dollar. So probably this is the reason why the Eurosystem was created. New profitable currency which can face the Dollar.
Nevertheless p, it is interesting because we are giving “value” to some coins than others.

You should read up on how the international monetary system works — synthesis

I will. Thank you for the recommendation.

but none of this tells us anything about the human being, which reaches out to experience and explore meaning and ask philosophical questions. — Jack Cummins

Completely! But this is why we are so unique as humans. There are some subjects or criteria that the doctors can’t describe at all. I guess it is better this situation. Sometimes we need to go further in physics or body. It is important trying to understand how our soul or mind work. It is one of the most dilemmas in society. What do we want? How we can pursue happiness?

As you perfectly has said, something is lost. I guess it is the lost of finding happiness. Look how human can go to Mars (true! It is a good goal) but we do not know how to be happy because it is so complex.

However, on a personal level, we know ourselves so much more intimately. I think that this level of knowing is important, and perhaps, in our most intimate relationships this can be explored further. — Jack Cummins

Agree. This point is very important. How we are ourselves is very unknown to others. I guess it’s even a private right keep our personality secret to others. This means that only people who you really trust you will open your “heart” or “persona”. I think it is beautiful. But it also depends in the person. I guess there are people who wants to be more conservative/introvert.

Protestantism only emerged when Christianity itself became to be secularized. — Gus Lamarch

Yes. Probably because it emerged another political power that could face government one. Remember the fact that Vatican is literally a State. Pope is like a governor of the world/his world. So, since the day Pope randomly said to Henry VIII, “hey you cannot divorce from your woman because the Bible forbids it” completely blown up his mind.
It was a fight about governance. I respect the people who believe in God or religion. But it is clear that is just another power itself. They played a very important role in some countries and education. When this kind power somehow conflict themselves something can happen. Who should control the education of masses? Education or religion? Well this is one of the biggest debates about governance.
Some countries preferred the education other the religion. In those countries whose system/education is religion, the secular power increased a lot.

Since money is debt in this system, the amount of interest that must be paid to keep the system going necessitates that more and more money be created simply to make this payment. — synthesis

Yes! But this point is the most interesting at all. I understand how you have explained how money/value works in economics. Also the fact what happens with debts and payment and also the how works the bank system.
But... Why some currency are better than others? I mean, if you start creating a lot of American dollar it is worthy because is a powerful currency. But this does not happen with pesos or rupiah.
So I guess it also depends, as you said, in the value of that country? (income, GDP, goods, profit, revenues, etc...)

Deflation is the natural order of things. Inflation is the anomaly. Here's why... — synthesis

Thanks for your explanation. Very appreciated. It cleared my mind.

There two important things here: myself and how others see myself as how I think or my perceptions.
For example, check this dialogue:
who are you? Javier
Yes but which Javier?
Excuse me?
Yes, which Javier in the other's people minds.
Which one is the real?
To whom are you exposing your real self?

The word "person" meant is Ancient Greek mask so this says all.

How we are perceived by others is really important. Yes we have only one unique body and it's characteristics but the reflection is not as basic as just physical.

affects us on a personal and social level. — Jack Cummins

You have completely nailed it. Affects a lot in many ways. But also depends in the open mind of the other person.
Will you hire a new employee who is tattooed all the head? I will not mind but probably other will do...

I guess I will sound negative but I think we live an era which we evaluate a lot the way of how other are exposing theirselves

PS I would not know happiness if I had not stumbled onto philosophy! If it were not for philosophy I would still be one of the most miserable people on earth. — Athena

Same here. I remember philosophy was very important in my life when I was 18 years old in my last grade of high school before starting the university. I was alone in class because I was "freak" for just reading books. Everyone had girlfriend/boyfriend and big group of friends except me so I felt really alone because that period of time is completely awful. It looks like you have to show something to just join a group of friends.
Reading books not only philosophy but literature (Don Quixote and Ulysses) etc... Give another hope in life.
I also had that feeling of giving up and being frustrated asking myself: "why the hell my teens suck?" but I was making a mistake. I was looking more the life of others instead of mine.
I started accepting myself and then everything changed for better. I am happy of who I am and I do not need someone to love me or being friends with. I am not force to do it.

I mean "faith" sorry I made the same mistake.

I've never seen the word "feith" before, and I'll assume that you mean "faith".

@Metaphysician Undercover

Sorry. English is not my native language sometimes I make some grammar mistakes.

Yes I am agree with you. It is interesting how you you put feith previously to belief. I think you are right in this point. As much as we need the effort to improve our memory we need exactly faith to improve the beliefs. Here we see that the premises change again but to better.
We do the effort of having faith in x. Then, we start making a belief in x. Subsequently, "we believe in x"

So this is the chain which starts everything. I guess without feith nothing can starts.

They still be guilty. Not about the fact of prostitution but hypocrisy. Back in the time Church and clergy were so powerful controlling the minds of the citizens: if you do this or that God will punish you. It is inmoral
But... In the shadows they were the more sinners of all. It is interesting how you shared with us how the Roman Empire even created a law about "Christian prostitution". Well this reflects how powerful the clergy was always been. If I am enough powerful to join in the State institution I can act whatever I want and I force the jurists to make laws in my favor/ambitious.
Meanwhile the population was there thinking or feeling guilty for stealing an Orange or Chicken to just eat...

Well this text proves why in Europe slowly started a fight between protestantism/calvinists and the Curch in the coming centuries.

Like any form of memorizing, it requires effort, and effort is only made when there is a reason to make it — Metaphysician Undercover

Yes. We have here the "hope" of wanting our live to improve. Everything needs an effort but previously we do need to have beliefs and then believe in... As you perfectly said previously.
More than a reason I guess is important how to perceive our feith. Sometimes hope and belief are upon the reason itself.
Probably the reason could say to you "do not do it because it is impossible" but the beielfs and feith say to you "let's do it we have another chance"

Shit, to be frank... we - in the States, that is - have the very best government and justice system that private money can buy. — creativesoul

This happens in Europe too... The richest always win. I guess it is a principle inside the occidental world. Nevertheless, I think the US system does work you literally have the best universities of the world that provides a lot of well paid workers in the future.
Check out this sad fact: unemployment rate of young Spanish people is 44 % (oh God it is a lot) while we still paying taxes to maintain the public services. Which the unemployment rate in the US? I guess so low because you are the strongest capitalist economy in the world.
Then, I guess as you said, it is all about how cleverly the government uses the revenue to invest in people (university, education system, well paid work in public administration, etc...) rather than just make debts and asking for loans.

Well, having a socialist Prime Minister in a Catholic kingdom is not a good strategy for achieving success. — Gus Lamarch

Complexity. Like all my governors do. Well the governor of Madrid is conservative but I did not see a huge difference. Since COVID crisis started the last year is upon us a big pessimism of what the future holds. Many people lost their jobs and are in bankruptcy. I guess the European bonus pack are not the solution either if the politicians do not know how to use it properly. I guess we have to be more patient if we want to see more changes.
But it’s not all about economy. The country is divided again and this hurts when you have a family that literally experienced a civil war and it’s consequences except me. I wish I never met a civil war in my region. I think it is impossible but could be when there are lot of people getting divided about monarchy/republic or leftist/conservatives etc... I wish my compatriots do not want to die for politicians or whatever.

On the other hand, Nordic countries have high taxes and their HDIs are in Top 10 or so. — litewave

Yes because these countries fortunately have good governments that invest the revenue they get in good public goods. But it is not work in all countries. Sadly, it looks like that this social welfare system only work in Nordic countries.

Prices in the U.S. were cheaper on January 1, 1900 then they were on January 1, 1800. — synthesis

This is a good example Philosophy of Economics. It is just amazing how we give more value/credit to the currency depending the times. It is so abstract when Wall Street or Madrid Stock Change determines the value of a coin. It reminds me about 1929 crack and money hadn’t any value. But well it did not end bad when American Dollar is the strongest currency in the world despite some consequences.
Probably the deflation in January 1, 1900 occurred because civil war in the United United in the last years of XIXth century. (It is just my guess I am not a specialist in Economics).

How do you understand happiness? — Athena

What a complex question. I think happiness is just moments we live along our lives. I going to sound pretty pessimistic but life in general is full of sadness. Even when you are getting older. So I guess this is why we are so obsessed to pursue happiness because it is so ephemeral

Capital gains tax is terrible and disincentivizes investing — BitconnectCarlos

There also a lot of people who defends this. Taxes are not so profitable so the public is wasteful. Paying a lot of taxes do not contribute to motivation in investing so they just travel to another country with low capital/income taxes.

All that I can say is that to oppose taxes seems to be irrational. What happens to all the tax revenue a government accumulates? It goes into essentials such as infrastructure development, maintenance, revamping, paying government employees, financing activities of national importance and so on. — TheMadFool

Yes. Agree. This is supposed to be right? Public expenditure is profitable. But... why US and Spain (both taxation countries) are lower in the HDI index than a secret bank/tax haven country like Switzerland? It is so much interesting. Because sometimes it looks like the revenue that the government gets are not well distributed. Imagine having TRILLIONS of dollars and being in the 17th position... there is something that the government makes wrong.
But yes it is really complex because US has a lot of citizens. So this makes it harder (you have more population than Spain and Switzerland together) I guess in terms of administration.

there is a wealth tax — T Clark

As you perfectly say. The problem is how bad taxes are distributed in countries. Probably Switzerland has taxes but not as much as Spain (promise) and look the different wealth ratio. It is just impressive and I am here thinking paying taxes is for nothing but it looks like the State is guilty at all.

Taxes are necessary for government and society to function... in the States anyway. Best thought of as user fees. — creativesoul

Of course it is. We have to share the wealth to make a more developed country. But here we have another dilemma of how much should be the public expenditure. I am not trying saying here that if you are poor you do not deserve participate in society and it’s public service but it amazes me how Switzerland as a tax haven has that quality of life. Because sometimes having rich people does not mean equality but this country does. So probably as @T Clark said previously the key here is being more clever in the use of taxes.

Yes. I know about Spinoza because I read some of him some years ago when I was interested in enlightenment. As you said yes I do not agree either of how he divided the art of learning in schools. I even consider Spinoza as one of the worst thinkers ever of how he decided to destroy the concept of Roman/Greek learnings.
I guess you are from the United States because of the examples you are putting on the table. I am from Europe and somehow I am jealous of your education system. When education fails there is nothing to do in th State. But I guess your educational system works when the universities are the best worldwide and generally the incomes/development are good. Despite probably we forget about the basics back in ancient times. So it is a great dilemma of what is the right path inside education... Spinoza stupid division of branches or Roman/Greek education which wants the perfect goal: happiness

Interesting fact here: Russia (I guess they still doing this) teaches in their schools how to play chess. What a beautiful way of improve the knowledge of the students. Probably this is the main reason why they have discovered a vaccine for Covid sputnik. Nevertheless U.S. Also discovered vaccines for Covid.
Another interesting point of view that me, as a citizen from a neutral/nobody cares country like Spain, remembers as the 1960's fights between US and Soviet Unión of who can have the best educational system despite they are far from Greek/Roman ones.

, I am saying: «If God exists, then God might have this and that attribute». — Amalac

Ok. Understandable. You put existence as the epitome of all attributes. Existence could be the most perfection or attribute you can put on somebody (God). But how can we know he exists?
Then, if he exists and we discover it which attributes we put on them? I guess previously someone had to taught the existence of God himself (empiricism again).
Here we have a base of beliefs and believing in something abstract like God. I guess again when you believe in something "higher" or "greatest" you want to put on it all the best attributes possible because we see it as it could be our purest form

I get your point. I am an atheist too. But I guess you go to scientific to put arguments why God literally does not exist. Yes, as you said, science is always a good statement/proof against secularism. You put a good example, the evolution theory.
Nevertheless, there are plenty of things in our life that don't need depend on the science but it is also important in belief: law, ethics, democracy, moral, etc... These are abstract and complex concepts and I do not think they depend on "God" or something higher in Cosmos.
For example: respect each other in society is a good example of coliving. If I hurt, robb, or even kill you I get punished by a court (the justice representation in the order) but me as a atheist I will not say "God will punish you" because I do not believe it.

This also depends of free will. Are we truly free to take our own decisions in the Cosmos? Is something observing us out there?
Yes every human it himself and it's consequences. There is not true predetermined context. Also, I do not believe in abstract term as "Haven" and "hell". Those are even metaphors. Probably you can even think your life is a "hell" when you do not know what a hell is.

we proceed toward the belief the hypothesis provides some sort of truth. — Metaphysician Undercover

So I guess you want to explain that we can only have the belief hypothesis when some methods and objectives are actually true. Yes. It depends a lot the feith in something that previously has to be true because it is quite difficult believing in something false.
So the premise can change here a little bit. First something (we call it "x") is true is our perspective. Secondly, we believe in the truest of x. Then, we believe in the capacity of make x understandable, studied, developed, compared, etc...

Exactly. There is a correspondence between the quality of belief and the quality of the presentation (enactment) of the belief. That would be the fundamental (or to use Collingwood's term, absolute) presupposition. — Pantagruel

True! You have described it even better than my statement: the importance of quality in the belief.
I guess in this point it will depend a lot of person themselves. Each one will qualify the belief as they consider appropriately. So this could be clearly subjective. For example: we all know that clearly climate change is a big problem. How much of the population will really consider it? Well I guess the one who gives quality to this belief.

Everyone (except a few) believe in climate change.
Someone believes in the quality of this belief and then wants to make a difference.

But here again we end up in the starting point as I said previously: happiness.

Yes, people don't 'believe' they want to be happy, they just do. — Pantagruel

This is a more specialized use of "believe", to say "believe in". It is better represented as having faith in a particular power, or capacity, to overcome obstacles. To simply "believe" is to have faith in one's power of memory, but to "believe in" is to have faith in some capacity to act. — Metaphysician Undercover

It is so interesting how you classified these complex concepts in two groups. I never thought the act of "believe" can lead us into another conception: "believe in" as you said. I guess this is just an a example of the classic question of "which one went first the egg or the gen?"
Having faith in something we can do comes when we are ready to pursue it. So I think firstly comes the act of "believe" in general terms and then "believe in..." specific terms.
So, probably, the epitome could be: being a believer in beliefs than can bring the power of act inside the world/society I live in.

It is easier to hypothesize something as a belief than actually to believe it. — Pantagruel

This statement could be painful but it is the most who is closest to reality. As you said to us one of the powers that can be in us the humans is believe in

something

. This point makes and proves why we are so different from animals or other creatures inside the savage world. The fact that abstract concepts created in our vocabulary as "metaphysics" or "beliefs" shows why we always want to improve our lives the better we want... Probably to reach the best goal everyone aspire = happiness (I just say this because it remembered me so fast when you quoted Aristotle).

What is a belief, other than a memory? Nothing. And to believe is to have confidence in what is believed, i.e. the memory — Metaphysician Undercover

Empiricism? Yes I guess something complex as "belief" has to been taught in us previously. Imagine if it could actually exist people who do not understand this pattern because they never been taught to. Somehow there are people which just live an ordinary life without the pursuit of "bieleve" in something better o understand what is the real meaning of "beliefs".
But in this point I don't refer to religious/atheists persons. I refer to all of those who have the power of believe in something: the next vaccine or reduce the Carbon emissions (for example). Because believe in something like religion or atheism are even more complex that just believe in tangled things.

We cannot take off the credit from the Germanic countries. They were the most civilized countries in the world between the 18th, 19th and 20th centuries. — Gus Lamarch

Agree with this point. They were been always there. Even they have created one of the basic principles that every nation wants to get: the so called welfare state (another Dante we can talk about is what we consider as a “welfare state”) that clearly leads a more developed country.
For example: Sweden investment in science and education is around 2.25 of its GDP. Spain investment is just 1.1... I have to admit it, my politicians destroy Spain the most they can. It is a shame.

But I guess we are not unique in the EU. Check out for example European historic countries like Poland and Hungry... everything is wrong and there are many differences. But I want to say here is that despite the social/economical problems we still “Europeans” doesn’t matter what the north European could say.

Can't there be another point of view? — schopenhauer1

I wish it could be another point of view but in this era no... Remember that this world literally gave up on social basics as you said: ethics, equality, moral, etc... pursuing one goal: make the most ton of money you can doesn’t matter the rest.
You said we can think about it and change it through rationalism/ improving our criteria. Nevertheless, this depends a lot where you come from. Imagine you were born in El Salvador or Eritrea. What chances do you have to change the circumstances? I guess zero. Because your environment makes it really hard (violence, drugs, injustices, etc...) so... the first and second packages are from rich countries.
If it can be another point of view we have to the travel the “developed countries” and see what happens... but they are wasting money in social networks and fancy cars.

Yes. Just the 2011 connection.

https://www.irrawaddy.com/news/burma/min-aung-hlaing-appointed-vice-senior-general.html

This one comes from 2020 and the official Chinese ministry affairs. https://www.fmprc.gov.cn/esp/zxxx/t1734347.shtml

Myanmar is another country who is giving their best to have democracy and defends their Indian/Thai culture and roots. But sorry... China is so close from them. They need another communist/socialist puppet to keep the control along Asia.
Min Aung Hlaing, the dictator who is making the country a chaos, had back in 2011 a cooperative relationship with China and Xi Jinping. So probably, what is happening here is China rejecting another Asian country joining in the social welfare/occidental/capitalism/development club (like South Korea did and now is a powerful country with healthy economy)

So... who has the balls to say to China: hey please leave all the Asians countries next to you alone.