So there are limits to free speech. On what grounds? — Isaac
What speech in question? Does the word "blackmail" cause you distress? Because there are calls emanating from universities to censor all words using the term "black" in any negative way, even though the etymology of the word blackmail is Gaelic - bla-ich, and has nothing whatsoever to do with black people. Do you think that a reasonable limit on free speech? — counterpunch
's entirely reasonable for me to ask what you consider to be a reasonable limit on free speech. — counterpunch
I reckon it is not reasonable, because of the principle of equal liberty. — counterpunch
Free speech doesn't bypass academic merit. It bypasses politically correct censorship. — counterpunch
Which depends on the extent to which it restricts liberty...which is an empirical question about reality (real people having real liberties, actually restricted). Since you've no interest in establishing what is empirically the case, there's little point in pursuing that line is there? — Isaac
So the proposal is, that because academics are politically biased, politicians should interfere in the freedom of academia to shape it in a more politically unbiased way. Really? Academics are politically biased and politicians not? — unenlightened
We already have climate change deniers paraded year after year in the name of free speech all over the media, speaking of political correctness gone mad; and now we are to have it imposed on universities too, because it quite suits Putin to thaw out Siberia and open up his Northern coastline. And it's political, so academics all shut up and listen! — unenlightened
Freedom imposed by law with legal penalties for not obeying its strictures is tyranny in double-think. — unenlightened
Oh dear, not another one. I'm not going reply to any comment arguing that insisting on free speech implies universities having to entertain flat earthers. It's a disingenuous, any pretty damn stupid argument. — counterpunch
You're openly admitting that it's completely proper to deny a professor the right to freely state the earth is flat. — Hanover
Upon what principle can a professor deny the earth is flat with impunity, but he can't deny climate change is occurring, that vaccines don't work, that masks don't stop covid, that the 2020 US election was stolen by the Democrats, that life begins at conception, or that there is an organization of rich liberal pedophiles running the world? — Hanover
That is to say, if you're going to deny the right to free speech to those claims you find outlandish, how are you going to define what is outlandish? And how are you going to do this without allowing a political agenda to creep in? — Hanover
I know you're absolutely desperate to distract attention away from the rampant post modernist, neo marxist, politically correct censorship spewing forth from the humanities departments of universities; — counterpunch
I know you're a fuckwit. — unenlightened
No, the proposal is to protect freedom of speech in universities. It's not unreasonable to ask questions about what that means, and how it will be achieved, but the specific measures have not yet been published, so at this stage - we can only really look at the problem. — counterpunch
Flat Earthers, propagandists, bullshitters, conspiracy theorists, and purveyors of fake news — unenlightened
commercial interests or governments domestic and foreign, or wealthy individuals using donations to influence. — unenlightened
"rampant post modernist, neo marxist, politically correct censorship spewing forth from the humanities departments," — unenlightened
I suspect that the free speech clause in the US might have been actually motivated in a similar way as freedom of religion.So there are limits to free speech. On what grounds? — Isaac
And back when it was only the elites who had access to higher education. It seems that the elites somehow figured out what is proper to say and what isn't and didn't make much of a fuss about it, or settled it with a duel.Lurking behind this entire discussion is the question “what is the proper relationship b/w the university and the government?”, and that is a question that is very old, reaching all the way back to when the university was called the “academy”. — Todd Martin
Plebeification on steroids.Freedom imposed by law with legal penalties for not obeying its strictures is tyranny in double-think. — unenlightened
Yet the world has worked that way for millennia.No. It's called being silenced by a mob. — Book273
This is simply small town mentality, it has been around for millennia. It just seems more egregious when it's broadcatsed on tv and the internetz.I live in a society where a man on a TV politics talk show was told by a member of the audience that his opinion was illegitimate because of his skin colour; and that woman thought she was in the right - because the man was white. I live in a country pervaded by a form of reverse identity politics - that clothes itself in the garb of moral righteousness while stereotyping people, and discriminating against them on that basis. — counterpunch
This is simply small town mentality, it has been around for millennia. It just seems more egregious when it's broadcatsed on tv and the internetz. — baker
Are you black by any chance? — baker
The idea of "white privilege" is one of those contorted politically correct concepts, confected to cause offence, to divide people and instigate the very racism it is purportedly intended to address.
The white working class majority who struggle to make ends meet - cannot but be offended by such a concept, but that's precisely the purpose. — counterpunch
Oh dear, yet another white person that does not know what white privilege is, nor the benefits of acquiring such knowledge. So many people equate privilege to being wealthy. It's not about being wealthy. — creativesoul
I know exactly what the concept of white privilege is about... — counterpunch
No, I do not think that you do. If you did, you wouldn't have said the things that you have. — creativesoul
Oh dear, yet another white person that does not know what white privilege is, — creativesoul
My participation begins on page 7. Take a look. you might be surprised at what I say. — creativesoul
Well then he ought rationally deliberate the opposite, it would be far less problematic. Unless, of course he couldn't, in which case the words would have inevitably caused him to think that way...but since words can't do that apparently, he's free to deliberate whatever he chooses to in response to those words.
Oh dear, yet another white person that does not know what white privilege is, nor the benefits of acquiring such knowledge. So many people equate privilege to being wealthy. It's not about being wealthy. — creativesoul
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