Hatred and contempt bind people closer together than love, indeed. — baker

I was talking about the empathy and compassion that can come form facing adversity together, not hatred and contempt.

But they don't. In fact, the whole idea of covid vaccination is that one can "go back to normal" once vaccinated. — baker

Well, that advice was stupid from the start since it has also always been acknowledged that the vaccines are only about 90% effective. From that it follows that there can be no guarantee that you are not infectious even if vaccinated. That advice is already changing due to the extreme infectiousness of the Delta variant.

As to your road rage example, I haven't said that everyone gets vaccinated on account of altruistic motives, so it's not clear to me what you think you are arguing against there.

You said earlier: "Nah. I doubt anyone in this whole thing really thinks of others. It's just politically correct to say one is doing it "for others". It makes for such good PR." and now you say

I wasn't generalizing human nature. I'm saying that the people who do as described above (from aggressive drivers to employers who have their employees work in unsafe conditions) often happen to be the same people who are enthusiastically in favor of the covid vaccine. — baker

Can you not see that you are contradicting yourself and that the first statement is a generalization about human nature?

In fact, the whole idea of covid vaccination is that one can "go back to normal" once vaccinated. — baker

Doh! No; The whole idea of covid vaccination is that one can "go back to normal" once enough people are vaccinated. As usual, all the Murican Rebels have fucked it up for everyone else. The idiots who didn't distance, mask or vax are rendering the whole program a waste. They don't understand the enemy or how it works.

We don't charge up the hill and take the machine gun nest when half the platoon is arguing about how best to do it or if it should even be done. Then, when those who went end up, undermanned, get shot to shit, those at the bottom say "See! I was right!". Then, when the machine gun sends one though their stupid ass, they want help. But doc is dead. He went up the hill with the real men.

Yeah, you're right Baker. I'm already against the next war so maybe I should be against this one too. Let the chips fall where they may. Hopefully it thins the heard. That's got to be a good thing for the Earth. You guys who know better can let the virus morph and do what it will. Maybe it won't do anything. Maybe we'll get herd immunity after we get rid of all the elderly, immuno-compromised and weak, worthless members of society.

If all you're willing or able to do is engage in politically correct watercooler talk, then what on earth are you doing at a philosophy forum??!

I was talking about the empathy and compassion that can come form facing adversity together, not hatred and contempt. — Janus

You mean like this?

Do as I suggested and we can engage in the merits on anything you want. Until then, your a fascist, racists, inconsiderate, disrespectful, selfish person. — James Riley

Well, that advice was stupid from the start since it has also always been acknowledged that the vaccines are only about 90% effective.

But not in the popular social narrative. If people who are so enthusiastically in favor of covid vaccination would have really acknowledged what you're stating above, then whence their hatred and contempt for everyone who doesn't fall in line with their enthusiasm?

From that it follows that there can be no guarantee that you are not infectious even if vaccinated. That advice is already changing due to the extreme infectiousness of the Delta variant.

But what isn't changing is the enthusiasm of the pro-vaccers, nor their hatred and their contempt.

As to your road rage example, I haven't said that everyone gets vaccinated on account of altruistic motives, so it's not clear to me what you think you are arguing against there.

The point about altrusitic motives for vaccination was in the context of another discussion with other posters earlier in the thread who are on a crusade against those who aren't all that enthusiastic about covid vaccination. The argument of those crusaders is like the one I quoted in the beginning of this post. "If you don't get vaccinated, you're selfish" is one of their points.

You said earlier: "Nah. I doubt anyone in this whole thing really thinks of others. It's just politically correct to say one is doing it "for others". It makes for such good PR." and now you say
I wasn't generalizing human nature. I'm saying that the people who do as described above (from aggressive drivers to employers who have their employees work in unsafe conditions) often happen to be the same people who are enthusiastically in favor of the covid vaccine.
— baker

Can you not see that you are contradicting yourself and that the first statement is a generalization about human nature?

?
I do not believe that the selfish-altruistic distinction is meaningful to begin with. I do not believe that humans are, by nature, selfish, nor that they are, by nature altruistic. I think they are strategists.

I object to the idea that people get vaccinated out of concern for others; but this doesn't mean I think they get vaccinated out of selfish reasons. Like I said, I do not believe that the selfish-altruistic distinction is meaningful to begin with.

The popular social narrative about covid vaccination would have us believe that we should get vaccinated out of concern for others, and that those who don't get vaccinated are selfish, while those who do are acting altruistically. Yet when you look at so many vaccinated people and so many enthusiastic supporters of covid vaccination, you can see that they are hardly people who can be described as "caring for others". So it's hard to believe that they got vaccinated out of concern for others.

The popular social narrative about covid vaccination is one thing, and people's actual reasons for vaccination are another matter. Yet some people love to hide behind the popular social narrative about covid vaccination. Virtue signalling and white-knighting and whatnot.

If all you're willing or able to do is engage in politically correct watercooler talk, then what on earth are you doing at a philosophy forum??! — baker

Right now I'm engaging with a passive aggressive, fascist racist, namely you.

https://chrismaleyblog.files.wordpress.com/2021/05/devils-advocate-white-guy-3.jpg

You mean like this? — baker

No, I mean like you. Like this:
https://chrismaleyblog.files.wordpress.com/2021/05/devils-advocate-white-guy-3.jpg

You're lucky. At pretty much any other forum you'd be banned for misrepresenting and attacking another poster like you do.
But, hey, Jesus loves you!!!!!

At pretty much any other forum you'd be banned for misrepresenting and attacking another poster like you do.
But, hey, Jesus loves you!!!!! — baker

I can't even remember why I called you a fascist racist but I think it had something to do with your refusal to refute fascism and racism. But as to the passive aggressive BS, well, that's just the truth. Can't ban a man for telling the truth.