The point is, your way does not get good results. Not in Afghanistan, your neighborhood, or your family. — Athena
Likely as just like with communism, it's the means how this "well-being of everyone" is achieved I guess.It is my understanding the stated purpose of communism and Islam in the physical, social, mental, and spiritual well-being of everyone in a civilized society and I am having a hard time understanding why the British and Americans are opposed to that? — Athena
so I am asking you to attempt to make all this information more comprehensive to me. Why all the different organizations? Do they have different justifications for existing? Do they have different stated purpose? — Athena
Right. By first killing the Afghan president. I wouldn't use the term "protect" there.In 1979, the Soviets invaded Afghanistan to protect the communist-led government there. — Apollodorus
I think it's more true to say that the CIA simply organized the money and arms procurement while the Pakistani ISI was basically in control of day to day operations and which rebel groups got the arms. No CIA agents entered Afghanistan, while some British agents did enter the country to train the rebels.In addition, they were trained, funded, and armed by Pak (ISI), US (CIA), and UK (MI6, SAS), becoming the Mujahedin guerrillas fighting the Soviets. — Apollodorus
I would hold the ISI having here a bigger role than just islamic schools on the creation and backing of the Taliban movement.After the Soviets withdrew in 1989, the same Jamaat-Deobandi infrastructure that was used to radicalize the Mujahedin, was used to radicalize the Taliban. Taliban founder Mullah Omar graduated from a Deobandi school in Pakistan, joined the Mujahedin and founded the Taliban in 1994. — Apollodorus
Northern Alliance would be proper as both Pashtun fighters of the Taliban and members were mujaheddin opposing the Soviet invasion. That Pakistan could be both "being an ally in the War on Terror" and supporting the Taliban and harboring Al Qaeda leaders and then get away with it is at least to me quite incredible.From 1996 to 2001, the Taliban held about two thirds of Afghanistan until they were beaten by a coalition of Mujahedin and Western forces, after which the Taliban withdrew over the border to Pakistan from where they have been launching attacks into Afghanistan until they seized power again in 2021. — Apollodorus
Right. By first killing the Afghan president. I wouldn't use the term "protect" there. — ssu
I have a big problem with that because it goes against the Koran. — Athena
"O Prophet! We have made lawful to thee thy wives to whom thou hast paid their dowers; and those (slaves) whom thy right hand possesses out of the prisoners of war whom Allah has assigned to thee" (Koran 33:50).
"But (now) enjoy what ye took in war, lawful and good" … "Allah gave you mastery over them." (Koran 8:69; 71).
Conquests had brought enormous wealth and large numbers of slaves to the Muslim elite. The majority of the slaves were women and children. In the wake of the conquests an elite man could potentially own a thousand slaves, and ordinary soldiers could have ten people serving them.
The marketing of human beings, particularly women, as objects for sexual use meant that elite men owned the vast majority of women they interacted with, and related to them as would masters to slaves.
As the size of the harem grew, men indulged to satiety .... Under these conditions satisfaction by perverse and unnatural means crept into society, particularly in its upper classes ...
Verily, We have produced the women of Paradise in a new creation and made them virgins, devoted and matched in age, for the companions of the right.
(Al-Waq’iah 56:35-38)
There are six rewards with Allah for the martyr. He is forgiven with the first flow of blood, he is shown his place in Paradise, he is protected from punishment in the grave, he secured from the greatest terror, the crown of dignity is placed upon his head and its gems are better than the world and what is in it, he is married to seventy two wives among the pure maidens of Paradise (At-Tirmidhi 1663).
I did not want to destroy the Bamiyan Buddha. In fact, some foreigners came to me and said they would like to conduct the repair work of the Bamiyan Buddha that had been slightly damaged due to rains. This shocked me. I thought, these callous people have no regard for thousands of living human beings
— Mullah Omar
That is the same as Genghis Khan's reasoning and the lifestyles are similar. What is not understood is building trade and industry can result in the wealth to have schools, hospitals, and feed everyone. — Athena
Yes. Just like they did in Hungary 1956 or in Czechoslovakia 1968.So, the Soviets intervened to protect the communist-led regime, not a particular individual. — Apollodorus
Of course Pakistan had (and still has) an interest in extending its influence over Afghanistan. No one disputes this. — Apollodorus
Likely as just like with communism, it's the means how this "well-being of everyone" is achieved I guess.
I think the basic uneasiness with the Muslim Brotherhood is that it doesn't respect so much "Western" democratic values like minority rights etc. — ssu
Mullah Omar has a point though, no? People are willing to spend so much on statues but only paltry amounts on actual people (men, women, and children). — TheMadFool
Personally, I am in favor of saving the statues for everyone. We have not had the ability to feed everyone and even if they did, they would multiply and the problem would get worse. However, we can feed everyone's spiritual well being and destroying cathedrals, mosques and Buddist statues is wrong. Those who destroyed the Buddist statues would know that if it were a mosque being destroyed. — Athena
Mullah Omar has a point though, no? People are willing to spend so much on statues but only paltry amounts on actual people (men, women, and children).
— TheMadFool
Personally, I am in favor of saving the statues for everyone. We have not had the ability to feed everyone and even if they did, they would multiply and the problem would get worse. However, we can feed everyone's spiritual well being and destroying cathedrals, mosques and Buddist statues is wrong. Those who destroyed the Buddist statues would know that if it were a mosque being destroyed. — Athena
I knew only Lysenkoism and it's war against genetics, but naturally the "political correctness" went on to every field of science there is.The communists of the USSR were atheist and deterministic, firmly rejecting quantum physics and Einstein's relativity. — Athena
When it was. It's an interesting history just why it then went into the backwardness and only was abruptly awakened by Napoleon invading Egypt. But then it was too late and the Ottoman Empire was "the sick man of Europe".Islam was both liberal and scientific when it was the center of world trade. — Athena
A person can justify just about everything with a quote from the Bible or the Koran. — Athena
This link addresses the Koran and rules for war — Athena
It's an interesting history just why it then went into the backwardness and only was abruptly awakened by Napoleon invading Egypt. — ssu
Damn this world, damn this time, damn this fate,
That uncivilized Arabs have come to
Make me a Muslim
Count Iran as a ruin, as the lair
Of lions and leopards.
Look now and despair
The Arabs did not have an advanced culture. — Apollodorus
I think it's just an issue that we just should remember, because too many times we see everything from the prism of the West doing things in the World. Having the typical narrative that nearly all bad happens in the World because of the US (or something like that). The US is just one actor and in these regions the countries themselves have their own independent objectives and agendas. To think of them just as pawns or victims of the US or the West is just wrong. — ssu
I hear ya. Nevertheless, one of humanity's biggest problems is not getting our priorities right. For instance, save for a few enlightened countries, the defense budget outstrips the health budget which to me is taking the stand that we would rather die of disease than die from an enemy's bullet. It seems to make sense at some level but that's precisely the point - we, some of us at least, are facing so much pressure that we have to resort to this kinda warped logic. — TheMadFool
The citizens cannot hold the government accountable, the government is supposed to be self-regulating. In Australia, where I live, politicians are forced to resign because of mishandled travel expenses. One example:
https://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2021/feb/19/liberal-mps-shock-2am-resignation-while-facing-icac-charges-plunges-sa-into-minority-government
It can be quite comical to see what Australian MPs are charged with when juxtaposed with what the politicians of other nations are able to get away with. But it's what a healthy democracy looks like, and Afghanistan's corruption problem going unaddressed is the biggest problem here. Neither unifying people with Islam nor educating the populace is going to help much.
Do you disagree and why do you think either of these things would help? — Judaka
"It is out of God’s mercy that you have been lenient with them. Had you been rough, hard-hearted, they would surely have scattered away from you. So pardon them, and pray for their forgiveness, and take counsel from them in matters of importance. And when you are resolved on a course of action, place your trust in God; surely God loves those who put their trust (in Him). If God helps you none shall prevail over you; if He forsakes you then who can help you? It is in God that the believers should put their trust." (Quran 3:159-160)
Christians are very proud of how much charity they give. At one time the US government paired up with preachers to get people to accept low wages and lusting for wealth was frowned upon. I have old grade school textbooks that stress cooperation and say things like friendship is better than money. In general, most people did not expect to earn enough to pay income taxes before the second world war, and speaking of war, the US demobilized after every war until Eisenhower and the Korean war. The US military ability was ranked 17th, with very small countries ranking better prepared for war. Iran liked the US very much because we seemed to chase the British out of Iran, but then we attempted to become an occupying force and Eisenhower approved of the CIA instigating a coup. I think our troubles with Muslim nations are of our own making. The only thing most citizens know if they know anything at all, is we were saving the world from communism. — Athena
the UK of today is quite different from the Empire it had in the past. It doesn't have the similar aspirations and not the similar will for imperialism as in the past. — ssu
How about starting a thread focusing on this jockeying to control world resources and the different styles of occupation and PM me. — Athena
Christianity has been a force in the world of charity for as long as I can remember. Unfortunately, christian charity has been marred by much controversy - I believe the donations were a cover for a more insidious objective, proselytizing. I'm sure that there are huge benefits in being/becoming christian but I was under the impression they were of the spiritual and moral nature, not monetary.
The USA's military capabilities are there for all to see. Which country has been/is ever ready to project power? Anytime, the USA doesn't get what it wants, it engages in gunboat diplomacy and saber rattling - read the headlines of news media for the past 60 years, you'll get an idea of what I mean.
Nevertheless, the USA is the world's only hope for peace and stability but...it's not the best option, it's the least worst.
As for communism, it's become some kind of bogey man, capitalist countries use to scare people into submitting to their demands and creed. Communism is dead! We don't need to dig up the rotting corpse of an old enemy to bring people in line. What we need to do is, in the absence of the red menace, overhaul the system that we've tolerated to counter Marxism. You know, like a soldier, who after a battle, tends to the demons inside him.
I don't know why I said what I said. Suffice it to say that these are not my own views but that of others which I offer as ponderables. — TheMadFool
Who are the terrorist? They are not a nation and wars are against nations, not a handful of nuts cases. Oh, the terrorists are Muslims. — Athena
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