Which amounts to the state raising the children .... — Apollodorus
...as if our choice were Republicanism or Islamic fundamentalism... and again:How many are there under the Taliban? — Apollodorus
So if someone in the USA is arrested by a female police officer and tried by a female judge are they oppressed by women or by men? — Apollodorus
Paying mothers to stay home is the state raising children. Well, no. The mother is the one raising the child. — Banno
...unless, say, there was a basic income payed to carers. — Banno
If the mother is paid by the state to stay home and raise children, then why would the state need to pay a basic income to carers? — Apollodorus
Just think of the thousands of abortions being performed throughout the Western world. If all those babies were saved and given up for adoption or raised by the state, you would have the population of a whole country. But we complain that there is a shortage of workforce and prefer to import people from other places to make up for it. Crazy or what? — Apollodorus
You suggested money used for abortions be used for adoptions or raising kids by the state; not to support mothers. — Banno
.and the part played by the Taliban remains unexplained. — Banno
In a matriarchy both genders are subject to becoming narcissistic coroporate machines. Then, we end up raising a generation of psychopaths that keep shooting up all the public schools. Just spit balling.What are the benefits and the problems with patriarchy and with matriarchy? — Athena
Well, that is an interesting comment. Before you decide who is a fool you might want to have more information. But I am pondering what you said and wondering why you said it. It kind of reminds me of the movie Brave New World. The way technology has impacted our consciousness is fascinating, but that is a different discussion I would love to have. — Athena
And economic dependency on a husband as the sole bread-winner in a household (in the current neoliberal, anti-wage earner / pro-investor economy no less) has been "liberating" for the vast majority of women? "Traditional family values", as far as I can recall from e.g. social histories, hadn't liberated most women in industrial societies in the last couple of centuries, or abolished slavery, or struggled to overturn legal segregation, or attain universal sufferage & access to safe family planning (adequate healthcare that lowers both the infant & maternal mortality rates). Maybe I missing something, Athena. Which "tradition" are you referring to when you say "traditional family values"?I think traditional family values are important to our liberty and that is why I started this thread. I don't think having to leave children in a daycare center and working like men to support the family is liberating women. — Athena
You mean Scylla and Charybdis? Not much of a choice there - do you want a female prison warden or a male prison warden? Either way, you're in prison. :joke: — TheMadFool
I can be clearer that was muddled.
What I meant was the merits/demerits of a gender based society would match the merits/demerits of the genders themselves. I’m not making a commentary about what those gender merits/demerits are Im just pointing out the society would reflect them, whatever you think they might be.
The second point I intended to make was that gender is not a very good metric by which to appoint rulership or or who makes good leaders. I stand by what I said, that it is foolish to think a particular gender better equips one to lead or ideas by which to base society. Patriarchy and matriarchy are both flawed ways of structuring society. — DingoJones
Correct. I can think of no explanation as to why western governments would pump trillions into Afghanistan and arm the Taliban instead of using the money to help their own citizens when in need. — Apollodorus
American Indian Women - Teachinghistory.orghttps://teachinghistory.org › ask-a-historian
In many North American societies, clan membership and material goods descended through women. For example, the Five (later Six) Nations of the Iroquois ... — teaching history
Moreover, if we take state institutions like police, judiciary, civil service, and political leadership to be "oppressive" because they are mostly run by men, at what point can we say that they cease to be oppressive and become non-oppressive? — Apollodorus
In a matriarchy both genders are subject to becoming narcissistic coroporate machines. Then, we end up raising a generation of psychopaths that keep shooting up all the public schools. Just spit balling. — Cheshire
Paying a mother is paying a carer.
Seems as you are having trouble following this. What it has to do with the Taliban is quite beyond my keen.
Again, your comments are frenetic. — Banno
If the mother is paid by the state to stay home and raise children, then why would the state need to pay a basic income to carers?
Either way, the state pays for the child being raised. Which sounds better than paying and arming the Taliban. — Apollodorus
Once upon a time societies were organized by family order. — Athena
I will prime the thinking pump with a link to information about native Americans and matriarchy. With an understanding of native American matriarchy, we can then see how the Taliban is different. — Athena
How are both patriarchy and matriarchy flawed? If you can answer that, it would be the discussion I was hoping to have.
1h — Athena
Once upon a time societies were organized by family order.
— Athena
Yes, that is the nature of an hereditarily aristocratic society.
I will prime the thinking pump with a link to information about native Americans and matriarchy. With an understanding of native American matriarchy, we can then see how the Taliban is different.
— Athena
But if you use the Taliban as being representative of male organizational stategy, are you not skewing the comparison? After all, the fact of patriarchy is only one of the two major influences on that group, the other, of course, being (I would argue extreme) theocratic zealotry.
How are both patriarchy and matriarchy flawed? If you can answer that, it would be the discussion I was hoping to have.
1h
— Athena
I think the answer to that, is that we as a species have displayed the ability to move beyond the natural and into the ideal in a quest for justice and equity. Since we have demonstrated being able to concieve of such (admittedly abstract) things as equity, justice, and morality, as well as being capable of structuring society in pursuit of those ends, have we not assumed an ethical responsibility to renounce such preconcieved notions of "authority" and "rule" as are presented by both patriarchy and matriarchy? Is there not an "onus" upon us? — Michael Zwingli
Yes, singing is a good sign... — Michael Zwingli
Seems as you are having trouble following this. What it has to do with the Taliban is quite beyond my keen.
Again, your comments are frenetic. — Banno
he homemaker does so much more than change diapers and feed children. — Athena
How are both patriarchy and matriarchy flawed? If you can answer that, it would be the discussion I was hoping to have. — Athena
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