Probability is not certainty, though, which is my first issue with this, since the angry expression of certainty only prompts "pushback" from defenders of the status quo, and then what ensues is a pissing contest. — Michael Zwingli
The more significant problem with the statement "R would have been shot" is that it suggests that "R should have been shot", or "I wish that R had been killed", which is a pretty fucked up way to feel, as if the two wrongs could possibly "make a right". — Michael Zwingli
Another problem with the speculation about what the outcome might have been if R had been "black" is that it has nothing to do with the topic of this thread, which appears to be whether justice was served by the trial. — Michael Zwingli
If you wanted to do the research, I am confident that you would find that the mean high school and college GPAs as well as standardized test scores and scores on intelligence tests are all much higher among, say, electrical engineers than among police officers or firefighters.
— Michael Zwingli
It might be true, especially when you are comparing a group who may not need college level training, and another group who needs at least a BA, and maybe an MA.
If you collect the relevant statistics and display them in rank order, low scores to high scores across the board, there probably will be more high scores among engineers and doctors than among police officers and firemen. But... so what?
Training for even professional jobs is at least partly on-the-job. Just because your engineer has higher scores, doesn't mean that he or she would have the ability to function as a police officer, and just because the police officer doesn't have a BA, doesn't mean that he wouldn't have the wherewithal to earn one, even in engineering. — Bitter Crank
„Every society has the criminals it deserves.“ — Emma Goldman anarchist known for her political activism, writing, and speeches 1868 - 1940
Source: https://quotepark.com/quotes/1221440-val-mcdermid-a-society-gets-the-criminals-it-deserves/ — quotepark
Those IQ tests should not be used to judge human beings! — Athena
many of the criminals who've been found to have low IQs are in prison precisely because they have low IQs — TheMadFool
I think its more specific than politics, its race. As you observed, even normally astute, academic types lose their shit as soon as someone says “black”. Fact after fact after fact unanswered, they just shift to a different attack vector and completely dismiss how they were just uncontroversially shown to be wrong. Its emotionally driven fantasy.
It would be nice to have a real discussion about any of it but as has been shown quite clearly in this thread you just can’t. You might say something that contradicts the dogmatic narrative and then there is no chance at an honest discussion. — DingoJones
Now everyone is in the streets screaming what they want others to think, and part of not feeling heard is smashing windows and ransacking the city like a horde of barbarians sacking Rome. — Athena
It might seem that there's more to a person than his intelligence but who in the hell decided to call our species homo sapiens (wise man)? Let's overlook this misnomer and what it implies for the moment and discuss the significance of intelligence (IQ). — TheMadFool
Are we to hold a mentally challenged individual (low IQ) responsible for an act that results in death, injury or loss of property? Let's, arguendo, say retarded people are held to account for their actions. That they surely didn't intend the illegal act must amount to something: like should be treated like and so, unlike should be treated...? With malice aforethought vs. unintentional/accidental/plain bad luck.
As one poster in another thread said, many of the criminals who've been found to have low IQs are in prison precisely because they have low IQs. There are some wrinkles to iron out, nevertheless doesn't that mean we're mistreating (sending to the slammer is a form of psychological torture and the death penalty has its own issues) the disabled (low IQ folks)? There really is no difference between a gaol and a mental asylum, psychologically/psychiatrically speaking bit as to the manner in which they're treated, they're poles apart. :grin:
Yeah, screaming "Stop murdering us in the streets" like the bunch of fascists they are :vomit: — Kenosha Kid
I suspect your goal was to be sarcastic and to ridicule what I said, please correct me if I am wrong. — Athena
What was the point you wanted to make? — Athena
screaming what they want others to think... like a horde of barbarians sacking Rome. — Athena
Since 1958 we have focused on preparing our young to be products for industry. — Athena
And, worse, mental health problems. Most serial killers were abused as children. Most homeless people have mental health problems. This is what's sickening about people with privileged upbringings claiming a la the Monopoly effect that they're just hard-working and those left behind just don't want it enough. — Kenosha Kid
Well, we certainly have agreements on that point! I have been looking into this problem, and it appears there is a strong argument that God puts thoughts in our heads. That is a different topic, but one that might be worth exploring. — Athena
Ouch, ouch :gasp: please that is a totally different subject, but boy would it interesting to explore that. The US has a terrible record of incarcerating mentally disturbed people. Perhaps that goes with our unrealistic notion of a god and humans? What you said about intent, separates the Rittenhouse trial from the trial of the 3 men behaving as the KKK hunting down the coon. — Athena
3. Did R go well out of his way to unjustifiably put himself in harm's way?
Yes. — 180 Proof
This is what I would call an unclear statement without any attempt to mark out what is meant by ‘unjustifiably put himself in harm’s way’. Where is the line between justified and unjustified? To say he went ‘well out of his way’ is unclear. — I like sushi
You've got it backwards as far as I can tell. — TheMadFool
Not backwards! :grin: :joke: — TheMadFool
What does that mean? I am really disappointed this morning. I am not seeing any post that I consider worthy of contemplation and a considerate reply. Maybe another thread will be more interesting? — Athena
I'm sorry, Athena my Goddess, if you feel that way. Your vengeful reputation precedes you and I don't wanna be in your bad books. Let's just say that I'm wrong and you're right! :smile: — TheMadFool
We agree. In order for justice to have been served, the outcome...the verdict wanted for a public reprobation of the values, beliefs, and judgements which led R and, indeed, his mother, to have the kid there with a firearm in the first place. That never happened, so the public in Wisconsin has failed to reprove the beliefs, values, and judgements exhibited by R in this case.Justice was not served by the trial. — James Riley
My IQ score is on the wrong side of 69 (Wechsler). Does that explain everything going on between us? — TheMadFool
That never happened, so the public in Wisconsin has failed to reprove the beliefs, values, and judgements exhibited by R in this case. — Michael Zwingli
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