I only assert that subjectivity does, and that is all I mean by 'consciousness'. — bert1
Sure, but I don't think that proves anything about panpsychism. Could you spell it out? — bert1
Regarding the other functions you mention, I am interested if you think these could happen without any subjectivity. Could a complex entity, a cybernetic brain or something, could do all these things, but without actually experiencing anything? — bert1
What would qualify as a 'solid reason'? — bert1
there are no intermediate states between x not being conscious at all, and x being conscious. — bert1
Again when certain types of anaesthetic are administered we can see a gradual diminution in neuronal activity, corresponding to a greying out of conscious experience. — Daemon
Either the awareness is there or it is not. Consciousness is also present in a dampened state. It is like numbers, a number is either zero or not zero. There is nothing in between. — SolarWind
Zero is not a number; it’s a limit. — Possibility
If I have nothing in my wallet, then there are zero dollars. That's not a limit, that's a fact. — SolarWind
There is no contradiction between possibility and jump point. The possibility for superconductivity results from the material, below a certain temperature superconductivity suddenly occurs. — SolarWind
The idea I'm contemplating is that the "suddenness" of the onset of conscious experience may be due to the nature of conscious experience, rather than to the sudden crossing of some threshold. — Daemon
Some panpsychists are motivated by idealism. Timothy Sprigge is one of these. If you think of Berkeley, but take out the role God plays in maintaining the existence of the external world of ideas, and substitute panpsychism - everything exists in a vast web of mutually perceiving and mutually defining subjects, then I think that is close to Sprigge's view. — Daemon
As per Laozi, simplifying Taoism, we're supposed to emulate the nonliving: go with the flow ( :heart: ); only dead fish go with the flow, one remarked.
The point then is to die or act dead, let the chips fall where they may (wu wei, actionless action). Momma nature knows best! Trust in her experience (4.5 billion years), have faith in her wisdom (she is the Tao, mother of the myriad things). — Agent Smith
Just to clarify, wu wei is to act as if dead - to deliberately and consciously align our ideas and logic with that of the universe, striving to understand and be aware of the energy that flows through it all, ourselves included. Laozi is not advocating a blind faith here, but a fully conscious one — Possibility
-No no, all theories of consciousness need to be a narrative of FACTS and a description of observable mechanisms. — Nickolasgaspar
Panpsychism only makes unflasifiable declarations.
It doesn't describe how conscious states arise and how they gain their mental content.
Its in direct conflict with the establish Scientific Paradigm. Advanced properties are the product of structures with complex structures.
IT's also in conflict with the null hypothesis. The rejection of correlations between A(existence) and b(ghost of consciousness) until significant observations falsify that rejection should be your default position.
Karl Popper's Demarcation principle. The problem is not that it is wrong, its not Even wrong! It can not be falsified, verified or tested. IT can not be used to produce accurate predictions or to use its principles in technical applications.
Now ..its just theology in a really vague suit.
Are you denying degrees of consciousness? — Nickolasgaspar
So you have never being asleep? light sleep, heavy sleep, sleep with dreams,sleep with environmental stimuli intruding in your dream,nightmare, sleepwalking, drunk, intoxicated,under anesthesia, brain injury(I hope not) concision, head ache, tooth ache, memory issues,Defuse thinking, focus thinking,preoccupied, terribly tired etc et.all those states that affect and even limit the quality of our ability to be conscious of our thoughts,mental abilities and environment. — Nickolasgaspar
Subjectivity is not a mental property. It is a quality we observe in thinking agents because their conscious thoughts are the product of emotions(experiences) reasoned in to feelings and what they mean to them.
Subjectivity is an evaluation term on how people reason and experiences things differently.
It can not exist without biological thinking agents comparing their differences in their experiences
Consciousness doesn't mean subjectivity.
Consciousness is our ability to be conscious of environmental and organic stimuli and produce thoughts with content. Subjective is an abstract concept that described the differences between experiences of different agents.....This is an equivocation fallacy.
Abstract concepts do not exist...they are descriptive labels we use on processes.
This is bad language mode and it is common with claims about consciousness being a "thing" not a process or a property of a process. — Nickolasgaspar
Consciousness is our ability to be conscious of environmental and organic stimuli and produce thoughts with content.
Assuming something that you have the burden to prove offers nothing of the above. — Nickolasgaspar
The difference between human brain and other "brains" (computers) is that computers work with algorithms. Inputs inform the algorithm and the algorithm provides "decisions".
In the case of human brain it processes emotion and meaning. A stimuli produces an emotion or affection and our brain(based on previous inputs(experiences),biological setup i.e. homeostasis or our biological hardware i.e. taste buds brain receptors , production of hormones etc) reasons them in to feeling and what they mean for the organism. — Nickolasgaspar
What's the rationale for that distinction then? — Daemon
The mechanisms responsible for conscious experience are operating, but below the threshold where consciousness begins. We can see this from the outside. It's in the nature of consciousness that a gradual onset would be difficult for the "user" to detect. — Daemon
Again when certain types of anaesthetic are administered we can see a gradual diminution in neuronal activity, corresponding to a greying out of conscious experience. — Daemon
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