The hardest part for me is language. — Vera Mont

I can see how that would be difficult. Keeping multiple made up languages in my head simultaneously sounds especially difficult.

I have copious notebook scribblings to refer to - so many it gets confusing, so I organize it and five minutes later I lose track again, frantically paging back and forth, "Why can't I remember what those little shrubs are called?" I got so exasperated with that one, I had a character say it.

Here is a little quote from a Fay Weldon novel, Rhode Island Blues that I'd like to share for no particular reason.

At night, lying next to me, he would sometimes sigh heavily in his sleep, and I would feel my heart almost break for him, but there is no healing the world's grief, of which he had no more than his share. I really cannot understand why we are born with such a capacity for it. But there is always cinema, to take us out of ourselves.

The character is a film editor. It could as easily have been said of literature by a book editor. I do appreciate Fay Weldon!

Writing stories is one of the ways I keep sane. World-building takes a lot of time and thought, but there is something quite magical in immersing oneself in an imaginary place, climate, scenery, culture, inventing people, dwellings, food crops... You get to be a deity of sorts. — Vera Mont

Yes, I understand the magical element and can imagine the satisfaction of world- building. I didn't manage to express myself very well. I'll try again.

Re sanity: I felt mentally disturbed when writing Red, White and Blue. In that I felt my inner self was being exposed. I was immersed not only in the story but simultaneously discovering...perhaps hidden aspects...who the hell is this writing? It's not me!

Same thing with the poem Sempre. It doesn't read like much but it made me question my own female/male aspects or qualities. Or should that be feminine/masculine?

I was surprised and shocked at my writing. How much it revealed and yet self was still edited.

The most fun project I ever had was a collaborative medieval 'fairy tale', with kings and knights, a dragon and a witch. Had to learn about armour and castles. — Vera Mont

Now that is something I'd like to hear more about! Witches are fascinating.

I followed up TPF event with an introductory creative writing course (FutureLearn) and ended up with a magical witchety story. Again, it kinda involved gender questions but was real fun! Fellow students were brilliant. Sharing thoughts and mutual feedback. Really special.

frantically paging back and forth, "Why can't I remember what those little shrubs are called?" I got so exasperated with that one, I had a character say it. — Vera Mont

You see that is what I love to hear. How part of you becomes part of a character. And possibly vice versa. How much does the self gain by writing and reading.
Whose story are you telling - own thoughts and feelings shown and grown.
Seeds sown for future re-generations...

Here is a little quote from a Fay Weldon novel, Rhode Island Blues that I'd like to share for no particular reason.
...The character is a film editor. It could as easily have been said of literature by a book editor. I do appreciate Fay Weldon! — Vera Mont

Again, thanks for sharing a beautiful quote and I don't believe it is 'for no particular reason'. It is, of course, a gift just for me! :wink:
It made me think of you and your husband as writers, editors and publishers.
Born with a 'capacity for grief' - empathy, feeling, healing and more. Making magic together...working hard and living in love and fun. :heart:

Fay Weldon. I remember one of her stories from a TV series:
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Life_and_Loves_of_a_She-Devil_(TV_series)

I didn't appreciate it at the time. I remember feeling disturbed but don't ask me why. So long ago, in another lifetime.

Given your appreciation of her, I had to find out more. Oh my! What a lovely person with so much to give. Well, at least, that's what I've gleaned so far.
Probably a bit more complex...

'Writing Tips' from her website...include rules from Kurt Vonnegut. Yay :fire:

https://fayweldon.co.uk/

I didn't appreciate it at the time. I remember feeling disturbed but don't ask me why. — Amity

I think I know why. She's held up some mirrors we'd rather not look into. And she could be devastatingly funny. In my literary firmament, she's up there with Atwood, Lessing and Kingsolver.

Same thing with the poem Sempre. It doesn't read like much but it made me question my own female/male aspects or qualities. Or should that be feminine/masculine? — Amity

That's a topic I have never been inclined - or felt qualified - to approach. That's probably why I didn't understand that poem. I write a lot of male characters, and sometimes express their feelings and attitudes toward women, but I get the information from outside, as it were, from observing how people behave and listening to how they talk about one another. I don't deeply identify with gender.

Now that is something I'd like to hear more about! Witches are fascinating. — Amity

Oh, she was a nasty piece of work! Not my creation, but I had a chance to tweak her, and all the other characters, a little bit. A Dark and Stormy Knight, written on a philosophy forum, now long defunct, by six different posters on three continents, who didn't even know one another's real names.
It started as a challenge: Here is an opening paragraph; write the next paragraph. The story emerged over several weeks and took some amusing turns.
The OG and I were major contributors, and when the forum shut down (Sad, that! Its founder, a clever and good young man, died of cancer.) OG kept up a real-world correspondence with woman who started this story. All three of us really liked it and wanted to keep it alive. So we got in touch with the other contributors and asked for permission to edit (me) and publish it. I tried to be faithful to all of the characters the others invented - except the king, but I had already sabotaged him on the open forum and Shadowfox, who had intended him as a villain, forgave me - eventually. Anyway, she was happy with the final product.
Agrona the witch was the OG's contribution, so we had a free hand with her character and her fate. She had a broomstick, could do some heavy magic, was guilty of murder ... but she loved her daughter... sort of.
You can see why this was so much fun to do.

A Dark and Stormy Knight, written on a philosophy forum, now long defunct, by six different posters on three continents, who didn't even know one another's real names.
It started as a challenge: Here is an opening paragraph; write the next paragraph. The story emerged over several weeks and took some amusing turns... — Vera Mont

Collaborative creativity. Quite the fun challenge, as writer then editor. To combine individual voices as one.

I've read that such collaborations are also used to give individuals confidence. Even tentative first steps, single words being incorporated into a whole. Supported learning in an exploration of own and shared experience and feelings.

An imaginative facilitator came up with the idea of linking fragments as in the ancient Japanese renga.

During the pandemic, I was invited to be a researcher on a project looking at stories of gender-based violence during the Covid-19 pandemic. We didn’t want to ask participants to do anything we weren’t prepared to do ourselves and so as part of the research, we wrote our own remembered stories of gender-based violence. These came out as fragments, which often happens with traumatic memory and is one of the reasons that poetry is so fitting in this work.  — Mel Parks - Collaborative creative writing in the community

Some could have some fun with this? Not sure I'm capable. But @javi2541997 immediately springs to mind, the haiku fiend :cool:
https://poets.org/glossary/renga

That sounds wonderful. And I wonder....

...aerily beyond...

From: https://poetryispretentious.com/renga/

The Rules of Renga:

Stanza Structure: Renga comprises alternating haiku (starting verse) and “waki” (response) stanzas. The haiku, traditionally a three-line verse following a 5-7-5 syllable pattern, establishes the theme. The waki, adhering to a 7-7 syllable structure, responds while subtly shifting focus. It is essentially a collaborative tanka.

Collaboration: Collaboration is the heart of Renga. After the haiku, poets take turns adding stanzas. All of the examples below are one stanza, but a Renga can continue for as many stanzas as the poets would like, though traditionally it is capped at 36. This back-and-forth pattern fosters a symphony of ideas and emotions.

Shift and Link: Each stanza introduces a “shift” and a “link.” The shift changes the topic or tone from the previous stanza, while the link maintains continuity, creating an interconnected flow.

Length and Structure: Traditional Renga can encompass 36 stanzas. The “ageku,” the final stanza, is contributed by the host and brings closure, often referencing the seasons.

Seasonal References: Renga’s essence lies in its kigo. Seasonal allusions ground the poem, evoking the cyclic beauty of the world...

Autumn’s tapestry,
Golden leaves in graceful fall,
Whispers of farewell.

Response:

Crisp air carries memories,
Harvest moon’s silvery keys.

(Original haiku by Shiki, Response by Kyoshi)


Silent winter’s hush,
Stars, diamonds on velvet spread,
Dreams born in ice’s clutch.

Response:

Embers glow in hearth’s embrace,
Stories warm the coldest space.

(Original haiku by Issa, Response by Hokushi)

Renga! Wow it has been a while since the last time I read renga poems. I remember that in my community of haiku we tried to write some renga, but the result was not good enough. I personally believe that haiku is something individualistic, an expression of an amazement for perceiving the nature around us.

Autumn is my favourite season by far, and I enjoy seeing the fallen leaves in the streets. If I write a haiku about it, I have to expect that the other part would like autumn as much as I do.
Even liking or feeling it with the same intensity, it could have some misinterpretation because maybe a poet is more melancholic regarding 'fallen leaves' but others are more realistic, etc.

I ended up in the conclusion that renga is for real masters of haiku. I am not part of them.

There is another interesting feature: 'haikono'...
A person posts a picture of landscape or places and the rest write a haiku of that photo. This is very nice to do.

I personally believe that haiku is something individualistic, an expression of an amazement for perceiving the nature around us. — javi2541997

Yes. I understand the intensity. And perhaps that is why renga didn't work in your haiku community. Individuals protective of their feelings. An added response might not be desired or not be 'good enough'.

If I write a haiku about it, I have to expect that the other part would like autumn as much as I do. — javi2541997

Of course, the response must be simpatico with a good aesthetic. From above:

This back-and-forth pattern fosters a symphony of ideas and emotions.

Shift and Link: Each stanza introduces a “shift” and a “link.” The shift changes the topic or tone from the previous stanza, while the link maintains continuity, creating an interconnected flow. — Amity

I ended up in the conclusion that renga is for real masters of haiku. I am not part of them. — javi2541997

OK. Again, you set high standards when, for beginners, this is not realistic.
I understand the wish for an attachment to melancholic 'fallen leaves' not to be disturbed or spoiled by a vibrant crunching of carefree crispness.

A counterpoint. In some cases, the contrast might be a tasty and amusing dialogue. Like sweet and sour chicken... or something...

I agree there could be a danger if some collaborators want to impress others by stretching an image too far, undermining the previous lines.
The poetry would suffer if there is no true companionship.

I understand that the connecting ideas should be a call and response rhythm. With formal technicalities learned and practised, there would be a natural ease.

There is another interesting feature: 'haikono'...
A person posts a picture of landscape or places and the rest write a haiku of that photo. This is very nice to do. — javi2541997

Thank you :cool:

It started as a challenge: Here is an opening paragraph; write the next paragraph. The story emerged over several weeks and took some amusing turns. — Vera Mont

That is something I could have a lot of fun with.

I rather liked the poem idea, too, but there may not be enough participants who can both master the form and remain faithful to the spirit. It sounds like quite a challenge.

But a lighthearted story form, or epic poem with no very strict rules of verse structure - I guess I mean an epic doggerel - might be fun, and plain old storytelling is even more accessible. That, I know people around here can do well!

Re sanity: I felt mentally disturbed when writing Red, White and Blue. In that I felt my inner self was being exposed. I was immersed not only in the story but simultaneously discovering...perhaps hidden aspects...who the hell is this writing? It's not me! — Amity

Something along these lines plays a major role in my tendency to avoid writing in isolation. (As compared to riffing off other people's writing on an internet forum, for example.)

Writing in isolation has gotten me into some disturbing states of mind where I have tuned out the world around me to a frightening degree. I suppose that if I made it a habit to write for half an hour every day, and then at the end of the half hour always did something that required me to pay attention to what is going on in the world around me, (repetitive jaywalking perhaps) I might be able to reduce the phobia I have with regard to writing.

I suppose there is an element of autistic hyperfocus for me, that tends to take me down deep rabbit holes. I remember one exam in a college literature class consisting of four essay questions. I don't remember what the first exam question was or what my answer was. But the first question triggered such a flood of stuff I 'had to' write down, that by the time I looked up from answering the first question, three quarters of the exam period had gone by.

Something a bit like that happened to me on the Gr. 13 English final. They gave us a dozen titles to choose from, one of which perfectly fit a story I was already writing in my head. By the time I finished, there were only a few minutes left for the other questions. I answered less than half of them, and was sure I'd get a lousy mark.
I got 96%. My teacher liked the story so much, she wasn't bothered about the grammar and structure questions. She even invited me to a summer course in creative writing. (Couldn't go; had to get a job. I'm still sorry I missed it.)

I can't imagine writing in anything but solitude. (Except cats; there's always cats around.) I hate being interrupted. But then, my stories are not personal or profound; they're just stories.

Something a bit like that happened to me on the Gr. 13 English final. They gave us a dozen titles to choose from, one of which perfectly fit a story I was already writing in my head. By the time I finished, there were only a few minutes left for the other questions. I answered less than half of them, and was sure I'd get a lousy mark.
I got 96%. My teacher liked the story so much, she wasn't bothered about the grammar and structure questions. She even invited me to a summer course in creative writing. (Couldn't go; had to get a job. I'm still sorry I missed it.) — Vera Mont

Very cool teacher. :grin:

IIRC, my prof wrote on my exam book, "What happened?", and gave me a B. My prof was an aspiring science fiction writer himself. He personally handed me back my paper on the use of mythology and folklore and thanked me for writing it, and that might have bled into my exam grade. :wink:

We owe a lot to our good teachers. I was lucky to have several outstanding ones.

We owe a lot to our good teachers. I was lucky to have several outstanding ones. — Vera Mont

:100: :up:

In Renga, the individual and, at least, one partner can unite in a dance of images and words. The form keeps you in step.The reader observes the transitions and links - how they move from here to there.

I think some of the ancient rules can be simplified to enjoy the form without being 'masters'.

The amount of traditional links were reduced to 36 by Matsuo Basho.
So, now to a Renga Party with Basho and Jane and Werner Reichhold. We watch the steps and learn how the (numbered) links work. An intriguing challenge...

Lesson Three
Basho as Renga Master

Until Bashô’s time, most renga had either 100, 1,000 or 10,000 links. Considering the time and effort it took Bashô to get to the government outpost for a renga party, and thinking of how uncomfortable he might have been living amongst strangers for an extended period of time, it is no wonder he devised a renga form using only thirty-six links called the kasen (KAY-SEN(d) – poetic sages) – supposedly to honor the 36 immortal poets of Japan.  — Ahapoetry - Bare Bones School of Renga

I think TPF could have a few dance-offs. Wouldn't you love to see @Baden and @Hanover step on each other's toes?! A collaborative competition.

Baden would lead with the haiku call, with a 2-line Hanover response.
And so on...
Keeping the form but having serious fun with it.

But a lighthearted story form, or epic poem with no very strict rules of verse structure - I guess I mean an epic doggerel - might be fun, and plain old storytelling is even more accessible. That, I know people around here can do well! — Vera Mont

Yes, but I think that some here might enjoy a new challenge.
Let's do the Renga! Cha-cha-cha...
Make it as light, bright, sunny or sad as you like.
Anyway, I'm off to learn the basics before turning radical rebel!
I like to spin around :cool:
Solo renga.

I hate being interrupted. But then, my stories are not personal or profound; they're just stories. — Vera Mont

There's no such thing as 'just' a story. And they always involve the 'personal' at different levels of consciousness, belief and values. Even the title is a creative, aesthetic choice. It is your voice and language, even if you invent others.

If it is not about your interests, hopes and dream worlds, then what is it?
Sometimes, a simple word, thought or sentence can take you deep, deep down or fly higher and higher...without even realizing it is happening.

That's the power of imagination. And it goes without saying that I love your creativity and story-telling :sparkle:

AND...that of others...@Baden @Jamal @fdrake et al.
The Literary Activity 2024. Is it happening?

OK. Time to go off-line. My lap top isn't working. Cursor has gone AWOL. Have tried all the techie advice for hours to no avail. Can you hear me scream?
Reading and writing with difficulty on ancient Samsung tablet. Eyes hurting.
Later...

AND...that of others...@Baden Jamal @fdrake et al.
The Literary Activity 2024. Is it happening? — Amity

I talked with @Baden about this like two months ago in The Shoutbox. He said it was better to do the literary activity once a year, and I couldn't agree more with that. If I am not mistaken, I think we did the last literary activity around late December of last year. So, the literary activity may be open next December if my forecasts don't go wrong. :smile:

Yes, I know about the once a year decision. As such, it should be happening this December 2024. However, with the precarious state of the forum with ongoing problems, it wouldn't surprise me if it didn't. People are busy!

It would be nice to be informed. Also its format and content.
But hey, it will probably be a last minute decision. Not holding my breath!

But hey, it will probably be a last minute decision. Not holding my breath! — Amity

Yes, I feel you. It gives me anxiety to wait until the last minute when the decision is taken. I start to sweat, have nightmares while sleeping, and I endlessly walk here and there in my small corridor. I dislike when this happens, but it is fascinating to experience such a level of adrenaline. 

As things stand, I'm happy to be involved this Dec. I'm no longer an admin though as you know, and we need one to help set things up.

'As things stand' speaks to the uncertainty I feel as to the forum's future. Best wishes. :sparkle:

If it is not about your interests, hopes and dream worlds, then what is it? — Amity

Oh, it's always that. I just meant that I don't get so emotionally invested in a story that I agonize over it. It's more an intellectual exercise for me.

I'm thinking of reworking the Blue Willow story to include more details of Canadian women's history as well as more of the narrator's personality. But it's already quite long, and I'm not up for the intensive research a novel would require, so I keep shelving it. No great passion; just weighing options.
Of course, that may be a matter of age: I can't make long-term commitments.

If a literary challenge is presented, poetry or prose, I'd like to participate -- unless it's a format in which I feel hopelessly incompetent.