On it's face, no. — ArguingWAristotleTiff

Why?

But you have to understand that I never saw my 2nd amendment right being taken away the first time. — ArguingWAristotleTiff

(I'm not going to try to debate your personal situation. I would trust you with a gun. That's not what this is about.)

Why? — Baden

Because I believe that we should be able to protect our citizens with equal force.

I asked you why it's not an infringement to ban machine guns and bazookas etc. and to take them away from those who are in possession of them.

I would trust you with a gun — Baden

Why? I am THE LAST one to trust with a gun. I had one used domestically against a loved one and would never, ever, pick up a firearm, loaded or not.

OK, Tiff, just my impression, but I really don't want to talk about you personally. We can do that by PM. :kiss:

I asked you why it's not an infringement to ban machine guns and bazookas etc. — Baden

And I am trying to answer your question but as you can see, I don't have a lot of faith in the answer you are looking for.

I'm not presuming an answer. I want to know what you think. Just tell me your reason. Why can we confiscate these weapons without infringing the 2nd amendment?

The answer that is popular is that it is not what our founding fathers had in mind when writing the amendments, because such weapons had not been invented.

For me? It is because it makes it an unfair fight with anyone, law or lawless.

It is because it makes it an unfair fight with anyone, law or lawless. — ArguingWAristotleTiff

How is it unfair if both sides have the same weapon? E.g. a machine gun or bazooka?

How is it unfair if both sides have the same weapon? E.g. a machine gun or bazooka? — Baden

I got turned around. It isn't unfair for both sides to have the same weapon.

So what's your answer if not that?

So what's your answer if not that? — Baden

It's fair for both sides to have the same weapon as long as they are being used legally.

Tiff, my question is: Please answer it.

Why can we confiscate these weapons without infringing the 2nd amendment? — Baden

(If it's just because they are illegal then we can just make any gun we want illegal and voilà, no infringement.)

Just answer the question, please. Is it an infringment on your 2nd amendment right that you can't? — Baden

I guess if the Peace Officers are showing up on peoples doorsteps with bazookas then I would have to say, yes it would be an infringement on our 2nd amendment right.

I recognize the absurdity of my answer but it was an absurd question.

So, you are changing your answer now and think Americans have the right to bear bazookas? (According to the 2nd amendment.)

(If it's just because they are illegal then we can just make any gun we want illegal and voilà, no infringement.) — Baden

OMG this is exactly what FREAKS out legal gun owners!! :gasp:

As I said once before, or maybe several times. It is people that kill, not guns. And if people do not have access to guns they will use something else.

https://uk.news.yahoo.com/london-murders-t-halted-york-141410483.html

So, you are changing your answer now and think Americans have the right to bear bazookas? — Baden

Please don't rephrase the question so it 'fits' into our ammendments. The question was absurd in nature and I tried to answer it with a logically.

]

Do Americans have the right to bear bazookas or not ? Please just answer the question. It's a yes or no. And why is it more absurd than asking if they have the right to bear any other kind of weapon?

Do Americans have the right to bear bazookas or not? Please just answer the question. It's a yes or no. And why is it more absurd than asking if they have the right to bear any other kind of weapon? — Baden

The right to bear bazookas? No, I don't think it is a right to be infringed on to begin with.

This user has been deleted and all their posts removed.

https://www.nraila.org/articles/20180406/uk-struggles-to-combat-gun-and-knife-crime-as-london-murder-rate-tops-new-york-city

I have been reading the same around the net.

Ok, now you've changed your mind again. A moment ago you said it would infringe their rights if their bazookas were taken away. Can you just pick one position and stick to it, please.

Ok, now you've changed your mind again. A moment ago you said it would infringe their rights if their bazookas were taken away. Can you just pick one position and stick to it, please. — Baden

I really am trying to be as honest and genuine as I can possibly be. I think at the very least the issue is complicated which is why it is necessary to define if the firearm or bazooka is legal to have to begin with. If bazookas were legal to own under the 2nd amendment then it would be an infringement on our right to confiscate them.

Now, you are saying it's legality that matters. So, if assault weapons are illegal in illinois now, then it's not a 2nd amendment infringement just as with bazookas being illegal it's not a 2nd amendment infringement.

Now, you are saying it's legality that matters. So, if assault weapons are illegal in illinois now, then it's not a 2nd amendment infringement just as with bazookas being illegal it's not a 2nd amendment infringement. — Baden

Yes legality matters which is why it makes no sense to have the citizens of IL be forced into surrendering their legal firearms. That is an infringement on our 2nd amendment right. Bazookas as far as I know, have never been legal for a citizen to own, so it wouldn't fall under the protection of our 2nd amendment right.

So, every weapon that has ever been legal is protected under the 2nd amendment? And every weapon that has never been legal is not protected? That's your position??

So, every weapon that has ever been legal is protected under the 2nd amendment? And every weapon that has never been legal is not protected? That's your position?? — Baden

I won't say "every" because I know there are always exceptions but yes, if the firearm was legal to own under our 2nd amendment right, I think banning that firearm would be considered an infringement on our 2nd amendment right.

A current example is an armed drone. Has it ever been legal for a private citizen to own and register an armed drone? Not to my knowledge. Would a law making it illegal for a private citizen to own an armed drone be an infringement on our 2nd ammendment right? No, because it was never legal to own.