I would love to see how people's position on this topic fits with their philosophical idea of "becoming". How does the topic of abortion and the topic of becoming get integrated into a coherent worldview? — Harry Hindu
That's the trouble with Zombie threads.
https://thephilosophyforum.com/discussion/comment/249231
And elsewhere. — Banno
Human dignity inheres in sentience, emotion, affection, physical health, appetite and rationality.
It is in recognition of this dignity that a person had moral standing.
A cluster of cells, not having any of the characteristics of human dignity, has no moral standing.
As that cluster of cells develops, it grows in its ability to express sentience, emotion, affection, physical health, appetite and rationality. It grows in its entitlement to be treated with dignity.
The woman involved in a pregnancy is fully entitled to be treated with dignity.
Pregnancies that threaten the dignity of the pregnant woman may be terminated up until such time as the dignity of the developing human becomes significant. That is, when the developing human shows significant sentience, emotion, affection, physical health, appetite and rationality.
Thereafter pregnancies may be terminated if on balance the continuation of the pregnancy will result in a reduction human dignity.
Generally, this will be around the end of the second trimester of the pregnancy. — Banno
There is sometimes opportunity for a living entity's "rights to live" to be not supported by morality. — Serving Zion
As in the example of the case of a blood cell, it's primary function is to serve the needs of the life of its human being. Therefore while its life is sacrificed in order to clot a wound, it is not necessarily immoral to expect its sacrifice because upholding its right to life would be transgressing the human being's right to life where the blood cell's purpose and duty in life is to serve the maintenance of human being's rights of life — Serving Zion
but, it can be immoral to cause the death of living blood. Eg, if the wound is inflicted for an immoral reason, then it is causing an unnecessary loss of life, — Serving Zion
therefore the cost should be rightfully borne to preserve the life of the cell (the cost to be borne, is the refusal to support the immoral action). — Serving Zion
To refuse to bear that cost is counted as wickedness by judgement where the rights of the blood are brought to consideration, — Serving Zion
thus the person doing such immorality loses right to belong to the spirit of innocence and truth (iow, they are drawn into possession by the spirit that deceives them, by their refusal to follow the truth into repentance). — Serving Zion
Nothing, because a blastocyt's intrinsic right of life is entitled to the same considerations by a judge of morality, as a blood cell. — Serving Zion
You often insult others that don't think the way you do and therefore don't treat others in a "dignified" manner. Why shouldn't you be aborted? You say sentience is a requirement, yet the second-trimester fetus has sentience. — Harry Hindu
...for convenience. — Serving Zion
What you also introduce by asking that question, is sanity of a woman who resents bearing a child. When you consider the female body's function in reproduction, it is clear that it's regular function is a hope to bear offspring. It produces and holds an egg in hope of fertility, and when the fertilization does not arrive before the condition of the egg deteriorates, it discards (at a cost) and makes another attempt... — Serving Zion
Eggs and sperm don’t have a potential for anything in particular. They are like bricks that can be used for anything or nothing. There would be nothing bad about throwing away a rock you found lying about even though that rock could be used for building a house or making a statue or whatever, but it would certainly be bad to walk into a building site and throw away a rock that was being used as a brick for a house in progress.And eggs and sperm? — Banno
So sometimes it is OK to kill things. — Banno
It is moral to kill blood cells immorally — Banno
So one ought not kill blood cells immorally (?) — Banno
Blood cells have a right to life so killing them is sometimes judged wicked (?) — Banno
People who kill blood cells needlesly are bad. — Banno
The blood cell and the blastocyst are on the same moral level — Banno
Is that what you said? — Banno
I would love to see how people's position on this topic fits with their philosophical idea of "becoming". How does the topic of abortion and the topic of becoming get integrated into a coherent worldview? — Harry Hindu
It’s a shame to ruin anything that has the definite potential of becoming something valuable and especially when you know that it will be if only you leave it alone. — Congau
Calling out this misogynist crap: — Banno
Women are for having children; — Banno
any woman who does not wish to bear a child to term is insane; — Banno
a woman who is not happy in the role of mother is deranged... — Banno
You've lost any moral standing you had, Zion. — Banno
What you say here shows your judgement on ethical issues is not worth considering. — Banno
Think on how you degrade women while extolling a mere cysts. The bankruptcy of this position should be obvious even to you. — Banno
What pisses me off most about the choice debate is the insincerity of the antagonists.
The reason you want to ban abortion is nothing to do with fair ethical consideration. It's because the people who tell you what your invisible friend wants say abortion is naughty.
The same misogynist folk who fight against child care, public education, maternity leave, and most other things that will actually benefit people. The ones who think giving guns to children is a good idea, and are shit scared of anyone who is slightly different, sexually, ethnically, geographically, politically or spiritually.
The folk who will not mention, let alone consider, the role of the potential mother; utter bullshit.
I offered you the opposite, but nevertheless, it is your decision and my words could not have been more persuasive. — Serving Zion
I wouldn't recommend it, Banno. Remember what I said earlier:SO a twelve-year-old rape victim ought not be permitted a neat, convenient abortion? — Banno
Those considerations are in fact justifications for adjusting the moral compass, and they don't have any strength when faith is involved. — Serving Zion
That's what you see — Serving Zion
...it is a question of women's rights (and indirectly, men's rights), where the question is whether they have the right to take human life for convenience.
What you also introduce by asking that question, is sanity of a woman who resents bearing a child. When you consider the female body's function in reproduction, it is clear that it's regular function is a hope to bear offspring. It produces and holds an egg in hope of fertility, and when the fertilization does not arrive before the condition of the egg deteriorates, it discards (at a cost) and makes another attempt.
A woman who does not cherish the offspring is suffering an unnatural depression. I agree that a baby is more likely to suffer less by having been aborted than raised by a resentful spirit and deranged mother. But, the real question then, is where justice must decide whether a woman of such insanity should not be treated and whether society is not entitled to be protected from the spirit that abides in her (which I do! - too demanding of my patience, are parents who resent and mistreat their children, and authorities that support them. It is an abomination). — Serving Zion
Now as they were making their hearts merry, behold, the men of the city, certain sons of Belial, beset the house round about, and beat at the door, and spake to the master of the house, the old man, saying, Bring forth the man that came into thine house, that we may know him. 23 And the man, the master of the house, went out unto them, Nay, my brethren, nay, I pray you, do not so wickedly; seeing that this man is come into mine house, do not this folly. 24 Behold, here is my daughter a maiden, and his concubine; them I will bring out now, and humble ye them, and do with them what seemeth good unto you: but unto this man do not so vile a thing. 25 But the men would not hearken to him: so the man took his concubine, and brought her forth unto them; and they knew her, and abused her all the night until the morning: and when the day began to spring, they let her go. 26 Then came the woman in the dawning of the day, and fell down at the door of the man's house where her lord was, till it was light. 27 And her lord rose up in the morning, and opened the doors of the house, and went out to go his way: and, behold, the woman his concubine was fallen down at the door of the house, and her hands were upon the threshold. 28 And he said unto her, Up, and let us be going. But none answered. Then the man took her up upon an ass, and the man rose up, and gat him unto his place.
Well, yes, it is nasty. It tells of a person who does not respect women; — Banno
... who assigns them roll based on their gender alone — Banno
, without regard for their personhood
— Banno
, their potential,
— Banno
their needs and desires.
— Banno
There is nastiness also in your quoting from the bible — Banno
- as if that decrepit text had any remaining moral authority. — Banno
Here's a bit form the Book of Judges, demonstrating how women are to be treated: — Banno
Sodom and Gomorrah and the cities around them—having given themselves over to sexual immorality and gone after a different sort of flesh—are displayed as an example, suffering the punishment of eternal fire.
He devastated the cities of Sodom and Gomorrah, reducing them to ashes—making them an example of what is going to happen to the ungodly.
SO at least be honest and admit that your objection to abortion is not based on a proper consideration of the morality involved — Banno
... , but instead on your acquiescence to an irredeemable, antiquated, uncivilised text. — Banno
Opposition to abortion is immoral. — Banno
...it is disrespectful to the title of woman to suggest that a woman should be characterised as someone who feels entitled to have sex at will, aborting babies as nuisance side-effects. A woman is a person in whom the noble characters of womanhood have developed - and that contains a vital essence of love for children among other things that are of good virtue for a woman. — Serving Zion
...honourable women... — Serving Zion
...female slut. — Serving Zion
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